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iisbroke

Major
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Dec 13, 2013
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  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Mount & Blade: Warband
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Knights of Honor
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • King Arthur II
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Divine Wind
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
Shop Talk

Have you ever wanted to run your own forum game? Did you try but it failed? Are you simply curious about the types of games or common slang used? Well you'll get your answers here. Simply put this thread is for Game Masters (GM)s to answer these questions. There are many games I have played, ran myself, and even more I've helped create. Am I the best, no, but for most GMs starting out is trial by fire. You jump in with an idea, hope you get something together that's cohesive and then... it fails. Almost every time, yet this shouldn't dishearten you. After all should one learn from their mistakes, and be willing to risk making a few, they'll become a powerful GM.

I invite other GMs, co-GMs, veteran players, and even moderators to join in and answer questions as well. The point of this thread is to unite the community, and also alleviate misconceptions on games and what goes into them. Even if you don't have questions related to creating your own game, but how certain types of games work or any other forum game theory/practice/mechanic you will be answered in the best of my ability.

Regular GM Responders:
iisbroke:
Noco19:
Baboushreturns:
Tirstanxh:
Dadarian:
Blackbishop:
alexander23:
Gorganslayer:

FAQ: [this will fill up over time as people ask them]
Q1: What is this about?
A1: It is about answering common questions new GMs face, primarily. Other topics can be discussed of course.

Q2: What other topics?
A2: Things related to mechanics of certain games. After all not all games are the same, for instance Werewolf games are very different to a WiR style games.

Q3: Is there an irc?
A3: No that defeats the purpose of everyone seeing the question and its answer.

Q4: How should I behave on here?
A4: Same way you should behave anywhere else on this forum, so follow the rules of conduct.

Q5: What if people get into a heated argument in thread?
A5: I will ask them to take their argument into a private conversation between themselves. If they refuse I will simply go to the moderators to make them stop.

Q6: How often will you answer questions?
A6: I will check this thread everyday at least once. I'll notify in post if there are days I won't be able to respond.

Q7: Why did you make this thread?
A7: People have asked me to help make games or give them tips plenty of times before. This is simply easier than repeating the answers frequently.

Q8: What is the most important bit for new GMs? What piece of the process do you find the most important? by Rovsea
A8: Personally I focus on mechanics first and there are reasons for that. Chiefly they are the core aspect of your game. When making a game you need to think about what about it would be fun to play, and how do the mechanics emphasize this. Mechanics are important to a game because they are the substance. I'm one of those people that for anything I'm utilizing the item needs to work first, then I'll worry about aesthetics later. So, I apply this ideology to my games. The game has to be functional before I add gimmicks and cool names to it. Those mechanics also need to be easy for not just the player to process (because their at least only processing their stats and how the rules affect them), as a GM you need to process how the all the rules and stats affect everyone. If one doesn't consider this they'll hit burn out and end the game (more on that at some other point). unabridge answer by iisbroke.

Q9: What do you guys do to keep yourself from abandoning a game? I often have an AAR or Forum game idea floating in the back of my mind, but the second I start to actually research or create work, I lose interest. by Dr. Livingstone
A9: The best advice I can give to that is to figure out why that idea would be something fun (not interesting). For instance if your favorite thing to play is Ireland in CKII just make an AAR on that because you know you like it, and thus not drop it. Unabridged answer by iisbroke

Q10: How do you gain enough credibility for your game to be taken seriously and for people to join? by Luftwafer
A10: To summarize for credibility you would need to already somewhat know your demographic by having played games with them for a little bit. Set up an interest check to make sure you know what they want from the game and how many want to play it. You'll need to be a good GM which takes practice, but will help your games' credibility as it will be tied to your own. Finally if the game fails ask players what they liked and disliked. When landfallen 1 failed or people quit I asked their opinions, and my next game was more successful Unabridged answer by iisbroke

Q11: How important are maps to RP games that have a military focus? by LatinKaiser
A11:I'd say essential. You want players to be able to envision their surroundings in order to better write their ICs, and depending on the mechanics, going without a map would likely be akin to players being blind. However, depending on the game, it might work. Referencing my first Star Reach game, there was no map, but it worked because the game was linear and the theaters of battle were typically in small areas or dogfights. So I guess it really depends on the game. by Blackbishop

Q12: So what tools do you use with forum games , I know some people use dice but how do the rolls dictate a success or failure ? What dice do you use and what other tools are useful ? by Captain Ozwen
A12: I use google sheets to organize stats, and an online D&D dice rolling application. Otherwise my trusty notepad for jotting down ideas and planning. (Also a calculator can help) The thing is the number of tools you need varies from game to game and depending on its categories. by gorganslayer
Q13: What would work better, a game that provides only a setting and minimal events and lets players handle challenges however they want, or a highly scripted game with events with limited choices? by JermanTK
A13: Depends on the type of game. Looking at a nation game, the former. However, I personally have had experience with narrative-given games, and it's somewhat of a balancing act. One thing I took away from my first Star Wars RP was that I didn't allow enough freedom, while my second one gave too much freedom, or at least, too broad a play area to effectively manage. by Noco19 other answers by isibroke

Archives: [Some new mechanics ideas for games, or other discussions may occur. This will have links to the beginning, end, and highlight posts of these.]

1)Complexity vs. Depth: This was a simple discussion to see people's opinions and view on what works best for a game. We had several good responses to it as well. Gorganslyer (1) (2) gave a great response, as did Falc, and Tristanxh gave several responses to iisbroke's two cents.

2)What game styles do you like? This was started to see people mention what game type they like, how they classify the myriad of OT Forum Games we have, and why they like certain ones over others.

3)Dr. Livingstone started this discussion on "What type of forum game do you find easiest to manage? Do you prefer IC orders or PM orders? If you could go back to your first game and do something differently, what would you do?". It got quick responses from GMs and they all stated their opinions which were varied along with what they viewed as the pros and cons of both.

4)Plank of Wood started this topic "What makes you, the player, want to join a game you're unfamiliar with? " In it we got plenty of responses from GMs and players discussing what draws them to games.

5)What is your favorite game so far. This discussion was a casual question with a fair amount of responses. It showed that many people had more than one game and liked them for varying reasons which shows the variety of games on the forum and people's tastes.

6)Δ of randomness discussed the types of roll systems people prefer. (still ongoing)
 
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This is a good idea.
 
nice meme bro. (i'll contribute my experiences on how to fail at GMing :p)
 
nice meme bro. (i'll contribute my experiences on how to fail at GMing :p)

Well I've answered your questions before so you can ask some again, or new questions. Kinda the point of this thing.... >.>
 
Well I've answered your questions before so you can ask some again, or new questions. Kinda the point of this thing.... >.>
What is the most important bit for new GMs? What piece of the process do you find the most important?
 
I'd be willing to provide a cautionary tale of the dangers of rushing into a project without a clear idea of the actual game mechanics. :oops:
 
What is the most important bit for new GMs? What piece of the process do you find the most important?

Personally I focus on mechanics first and there are reasons for that. Chiefly they are the core aspect of your game. When making a game you need to think about what about it would be fun to play, and how do the mechanics emphasize this. This ties in somewhat with an inter GM debate about complexity vs depth, and how best to achieve this (more on that at some other point).

If I make a game too complex it will be overwhelming for the players to process all that information; the same goes for me. As a GM one must not create a workload they cannot manage either, so in some cases the mechanics might be easy on players yet come update day it is a terrible slog for the GM. I found this out the hard way with my first game, Landfallen 1. It was clear a lot of work was put into it but it had many of the cliché failures first timers have (more on that at some other point).

First let me define what I consider mechanics for these forum games because it's actually a rather subjective subject. I keep everything broad and in certain manageable sub-groups. Mechanic - a component of the game, one piece out of a whole, that added to its others make the sum game experience. These components are: Rules & Regulations, stats, player to player interactions, player to GM interactions, and power balance.

Rules and Regulations are, as you'd imagine, rules for how the game works. I recommend for your first game to grab a card game or board game, you like because you'll lose interest otherwise, and examine the rules of those. I say board or card game because they both have clear cut rules to their games. Board games in some instances need rule books, your Original Post (OP) should be the rule book to your game. Studying these board game rule books will give an idea of how clear and concise one needs to be in laying out the rules. Card games have relatively simple rules that can be remembered easily after first hearing them, this is good because it allows you to get right into the action. And, if you don't think we can apply board or card game aspects to these OT Forum Games I'd like to point you to the fact two of the most popular games on here are The Resistance, based off the Resistance Board Game, and Werewolf, based of the similarly named card game.

Stats are important because they allow you to organize and keep track of player progression. Whether you keep stats in post or in a spreadsheet just be certain they are easy to navigate. If you've played a nation game you've probably run across poorly constructed stat pages. A good thing when making these to ensure your players aren't confused is this; if you have trouble finding something as the GM who made the stat page layout... revise the formatting.

Player to player interactions are honestly the hardest things to control. These overlap with rules and regulations because those should be able to encourage players to deal with each other. The best method is to make the players feel closed in, claustrophobic as one person described it to me. This makes them have to interact and lash out. In Alexander23's nation games he adds a large degree None Player Character (NCP) nations. This way the players, while not really closed in much in practice, see the map and feel like they are. This encourages them to lash out, to expand, to remove that sense of confinement. Now in games like Werewolf the core rules themselves show that the game can only be played by interacting. Someone has to accuse another of being the baddie, and others have to vote. In Blackbishop's Agorath The Maegei Prophecy this was done more by players making individual story arcs called In Characters (ICs). This latter one is harder to control, yet should right player base have joined it will enrich the experience and make players far invested into the game than the other two methods.

Player to GM reactions are entirely under your control. Now yes there will be players who behave poorly, how you respond is key. Mainly I go with the stern but fair methodology. I'll lay rules out clearly, and if someone breaks a rule they don't know I give them a warning. If they break it again then I dish out punishment accordingly. The key to that is continuity and consistency. Otherwise your going to come across as playing favorites, whether you are or not (seriously never play favorites). Also be sure to stay in touch with your player base and be open with them. If they have a question on irc, in a private message, or in post, answer them. There will be times there are flare ups in the player base; personally I like to look inward and see where I might have contributed to the situation so it can be better avoided for next time, then I look at what the player base had to contribute to it. You'll know these situations because their the ones where your thread is spammed with an argument between players, irc is, players are talking of how they are being harassed or their disillusion with the game, or people are getting fed up and quitting.

Power balance. Here's the thing every player wants to be the best, people are naturally competitive and a game is the perfect setting to let this shine through. Now the rules for the game shouldn't allow one player to be overly powerful compared to the other, they can be more powerful though. It is called 'imperfect perfection', a good example is League of Legends. Not all the characters are equal so people will think one is the best and play it until their face falls off. Because everyone else is having to fight that character type they are able to come up with counter strategies, making the character obsolete. This encourages people to think hard about their strategies in the game, making it more engaging. Going back to werewolf styled games there are a handful of classes that can be played which do different things. This method is good because it makes a clear cut division in power; much like in the game rock, paper, scissors everyone knows which 'class' does what to the others. There is a inter GM argument that happens when game sequels start. One player shouldn't be overly powerful compared to every other player as that would quite honestly turn new players off, yet there is a great sense of pride and investment felt if you start back at where you ended last time in a game series. This is more functional for nation or rpg games. It is actually something I've been wrestling with for the transition from Landfallen 2 to Landfallen 3 (more on that when I make the interest check thread in the far flung future). I'm not going to reveal my method I've come up with for this because it hasn't been implemented as L2 is still going strong and I'm not here to promote my own games.

It is a lot to read yet I hope that answered your question Rovsea. Mechanics are important to a game because they are the substance. I'm one of those people that for anything I'm utilizing the item needs to work first, then I'll worry about aesthetics later. So, I apply this ideology to my games. The game has to be functional before I add gimmicks and cool names to it. Those mechanics also need to be easy for not just the player to process (because their at least only processing their stats and how the rules affect them), as a GM you need to process how the all the rules and stats affect everyone. If one doesn't consider this they'll hit burn out and end the game (more on that at some other point).

Edit: (Question and abridged answer added to FAQ spoiler)
 
I'll help.

Advice: Learn your strengths and weaknesses as a GM. I ran a mafia game for awhile that was fun and low key, updates took only about an hour and it was a good time. On the other hand "Paradox Life" was a game I ran not too long ago that had updates upwards of 4-5 hours long. I had to make pre-update sheets before my update. It was ridiculous.

Also time management, that's a thing too.
 
my 5 cents:

when you have an idea, don't try and rush it out or get an interest thread up straight away. let it stew for a while and work on it slowly, that way you can better analyse it as you go and explore what works and what doesn't. That way when you do put up an interest thread etc. people will be more inclined to join in when they can see that their is already a solid foundation behind the game.
 
my 5 cents:

when you have an idea, don't try and rush it out or get an interest thread up straight away. let it stew for a while and work on it slowly, that way you can better analyse it as you go and explore what works and what doesn't. That way when you do put up an interest thread etc. people will be more inclined to join in when they can see that their is already a solid foundation behind the game.

+1

One of the reasons my game never got off the ground is because I got caught up in the idea and lacked a foundation for it.
 
+1

One of the reasons my game never got off the ground is because I got caught up in the idea and lacked a foundation for it.

That is a common mistake, so don't feel too bad.
 
There hasn't been much discussion in this thread so I'll ask a question to mix it up.

What do you think is more important for a forum game, complexity or depth?
 
There hasn't been much discussion in this thread so I'll ask a question to mix it up.

What do you think is more important for a forum game, complexity or depth?

Despite not having really GMed a forum game up until now, I'll go ahead and throw in my view, and that I'd say both are equally important.
However, over-doing either of them can scare players away from your game. For example, I think I put too many details in my game idea, and despite it all having been fairly standard RPG content being only minutely tinkered with, I'd say that the thirty-some pages' worth of description causes quite a few people to avoid it.

(I think I'll go ahead and drop a TL;DR version in to clear up some of that problem.)

Anyways, if the game lacks any complexity it becomes rather dull, if we want a mindless fps we'd go play a mindless fps, and depth (I assume you mean story / content?) allows players to imagine themselves or their character more precisely and the predicaments in which they encounter.
 
I think you need an equilibrium.

Too much complexity can scare people away, but too little can leave a game exploitable or broken.

While depth can also scare people who feel like they are diving into the deep end, but depth also creates interest and longevity. (People get bored if theres no depth to pull them through)

Also depth can nessecitate complexity, while complexity can bring depth. So i think you need a mix of both, however this forum has shown all manner of games can and will work.
 
What do you think is more important for a forum game, complexity or depth?

You're going to have players attracted by both. So if it's about "customer satisfaction", the best thing is to have multiple forum games that run the gamut of these values.

When it comes to YOUR game, though, the one YOU run, then those need to be at values that you can handle AND that interest you.


Examples:

Dadarian's Pdox LIfe game was clearly at a depth he wanted, but the complexity for him was too much.

A WW Lite game is low complexity, low depth. You'll see quite a few GMs adding depth by making elaborate RPed update posts, but there's also GMs who don't. It's all about whether you consider your own time worth that effort, for your own pleasure.
 
So everyone seems to think they need a balance but what is the balance. Personally I believe that depth is far more important than complexity as we've all played a game with a ton of bells and whistles but been bored, yet vice versly have played a game with only a handful of rules and been entertained. I'll come out of the closet here and say I usually look towards concepts from other mediums and transcribe them over. My main source for these forum games is the youtube channel Extra Credits. Here is their view on depth vs. complexity.
 
So everyone seems to think they need a balance but what is the balance. Personally I believe that depth is far more important than complexity as we've all played a game with a ton of bells and whistles but been bored, yet vice versly have played a game with only a handful of rules and been entertained. I'll come out of the closet here and say I usually look towards concepts from other mediums and transcribe them over. My main source for these forum games is the youtube channel Extra Credits. Here is their view on depth vs. complexity.

But this can't follow a 'decisions per second' rule on complexity. Dungeons and Dragons has a very complex rule book and books upon books of other information but it's still fun, likewise a forum game equivalent of a normal game like D&D versus Skyrim, the forum game or D&D should be more complex (if intended to be) than the non-forum equivalent, Skyrim.

(I think I explained my point poorly. :D)