Should certain governments be unable to assimilate/convert certain pops? or atleast get a debuff?

[Jiben]

I'm thinking of how monarchies should have a much harder time to convert/assimilate tribesmen. They whould in my mind have to poromote/demote the tribesmen into pop types more favorable to a settled and urban lifestyle.

The reverse could be said for tribes they should have a real hard time to convince citizens/nobles to assilimate since the citizens/nobles would probablly see the culture of the tribe as barbaric.

Thoughts?

 

[IsaacCAT]

Now the game has the same promotion and demoting speed for all type of governments:

If government type should also have an effect as you say, we could make for tribes, promotion and demotion speed reduced to +1 for Citizens and Freemen, as they do not want to become tribesmen.

But all of this is for naught, if we do not change the desired POP ratios for type of government too. Now the differences between governments are very small, and every territory looks almost the same:

For example, in a city for the three types of government you will have the following desired pop ratio for a population of 100:

City of 100 POPs	Monarchy	Republic	Tribal
Noble	+15% / 112,5% = 13 POPs	+15% / 125% = 12 POPs	+15% -7% / 113% = 7 POPs
Citizen	+30% / 112,5% = 27 POPs	+30% + 5% / 125% = 28 POPs	+30% / 113% =27 POPs
Freemen	+40% + 2,5% / 112,5%= 38 POPs	+40% + 2,5% +7,5 % / 125% = 40 POPs	+40% / 113%= 35 POPs
Tribesmen	0% / 112,5% = 0 POPs	0% / 125% = 0 POPs	0% +10% / 113% = 9 POPs
Slave	+25% / 112,5% = 22 POPs	+25% / 125% = 20 POPs	+25% / 113% = 22 POPs

Tribal governments should have more tribesmen and negative desired ratios for citizens, freemen and slaves, like they do for nobles. Using the previous city example:

City of 100 Pops	Tribal -10% Nobles, Citizens, Freemen and Slaves and 30% tribesmen
Noble	15%-10% / 100% = 5 POPs
Citizen	30% -10% / 100% = 20 POPs
Freemen	40% -10% / 100% = 30 POPs
Tribesmen	0% +30% / 100% = 30 POPs
Slave	+25% - 10% / 100% = 15 POPs

This City population distribution will better describe a tribal city.

Finally, IMHO convert/assimilate should be to the dominant religion/culture in the territory not the primary religion/culture of your nation.

My two cents.

 

[DukeLeto42]

One factor that should definitely boost assimilation is available citizenship. One of Rome's core strategies to force assimilation was to make participation in civic life contingent on "Roman-ness." That's partially modified by pops being unable to advance past a point without assimilating, but I think it could be better.

This could be improved by making assimilation for each pop tier sped boosted based on how much promotion is available. For instance, if a culture is limited to slaves, and they are assimilating in a territory with a freeman proportion below the desired ratio, they should assimilate quicker because it offers promotion.

In fact, this could be the primary source of assimilation for "civilized" nations (so, reducing the baseline assimilation speed but making promotion assimilation potentially add a great deal). This also (to build off of IsaacCAT's point) could mean they assimilate to any culture that offers promotion to their stratum, not just your primary one. So, in such a case:

1. Rome conquers Cisalpine Gaul. They integrate Lepontic to get a Gallic culture in their mix and to boost their levies.
2. Rome conquers Transalpine Gaul. They don't integrate those cultures. Tribesmen and Freemen assimilate to Lepontic, because it's in their culture group but offers promotion to "citizen."
3. In the big cities, there's space for a few nobles. Pops, even Lepontic ones, assimilate to Roman there in order to jump up to being nobles.