Should Dai Viet be Confucian now?

[Semi-Lobster]

So today, BjornB posted a new Development Diary entry for the upcoming (2 days!) Mandate of Heaven expansion. in it are:
https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-development-diary-4th-of-april-2017.1009063/

- Confucian countries now have a Harmony value. Harmony affect Tolerance of True Faith, development cost and legitimacy and increases yearly but is reduced if you convert provinces to Confucianism and when Harmonizing with other religions.
- Confucian countries can now Harmonize with other religions within their group and religion groups. Once a religion has been Harmonized into Confucian teachings, that religion will be treated as a Syncretic religion with no maluses.
- Added Confucianism Events.

While these new Confucian mechanics are mostly aimed at China and Korea, I would also like to point out these also apply to Dai Viet, in game currently Dai Viet is Mahayana Buddhist (infact, the only Mahayana Buddhist nation in 1444). The issue is that after the Chinese occupation of Vietnam only 17 years before the start of the game, the Le Dynasty had become a predominately Neo-Confucian, with the Le dynasty promoting Confucian scholars and building Confucian temples and academies. The Chinese exam system was adopted by the Vietnamese and Confucian government reforms over took indigenous ones. The worship of Confucius and Confucian ideas became part of Vietnamese folk religion. The situation is very reminiscent of the religious-political development of Korea. Where a predominately Buddhist state instead adopts Chinese Confucian culture.

With the new game mechanics Confucianism is now a syncretic religion like Tengrism and Fetishism which actually would represent Vietnam's rich Confucian and Buddhist history simultaneously without making Dai Viet unplayable which would be the situation now if Dai Viet had Confucianism as the state religion but with predominate Buddhism provinces.

 

[neondt]

Frankly, the most historical solution would be to make Confucianism a a country-level religion only and have Mahayana in all provinces.

Was just going to say this. I don't think Dai Viet necessarily needs any Confucian provinces, there's no mechanical downside to low religious unity.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Well if the new syncretic Confucianism works the way I think it does then possibly that could be the solution, maybe the same could even be applied to China eventually too if it works. Confucianism as a state religion and Buddhism or "San Jiao" as the provincial religion.

"San Jiao" or "Three Teachings" is the general approach of Chinese, Korean and Vietnamese folk religions (Tam giáo (三敎) in Vietnamese and 유불도(儒佛道) Yubuldo in Korean), combining Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism as the "religion of the people". It can be an abstraction of several faiths together, such as what Shinto currently represents as a "Shinbutsu-shugo". Rather than forcing a province to be "one" or "another", the approach really should be "all at once".

 

[Trin Tragula]

As the only Mahayana state religion country in the world Dai Viet is pretty unique as it is (and they'll also soon have an achievement related to that religion). I could maybe see an event that lets you choose if you wish to persue a Confucianist administration early on though...
That would basically mean you'd have the choice of what to go with as Dai Viet. Not for 1.20 though

 

[neondt]

As the only Mahayana state religion country in the world Dai Viet is pretty unique as it is (and they'll also soon have an achievement related to that religion). I could maybe see an event that lets you choose if you wish to persue a Confucianist administration early on though...
That would basically mean you'd have the choice of what to go with as Dai Viet. Not for 1.20 though

I think that's a good compromise.

 

[Semi-Lobster]

Hi Trin! Thanks for that! It's good to know that Paradox has been thinking of this as well! Maybe we can get something like that Korea too given how similar their situations are.

 

[Golladan]

One sould still consider what would happen to those without the DLC, I think.

 

[NaiveCarto]

In my opinion, the old vietnam before annexed by Ming shall be a Mahayana country, while the Later Le Dynasty shall be a Confusian country for Later Le Dynasty studied system from Ming not from Tran Dynasty and Confusian power rose up during this period.

 

[Alyoshenka]

Frankly, the most historical solution would be to make Confucianism a a country-level religion only and have Mahayana in all provinces.

I agree, that could make it very unique.

Prevent Confucian nations from converting provinces, only harmonize with other religions. Make all Confucian provinces Mahayana. Korea, Ming and Dai Viet all start Confucian, with Mahayana harmonized.

 

[Warial]

And so Dai Viet gets the event as @Trin Tragula promised. Thanks!

 

[Semi-Lobster]

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...hecksum-bbec-not-for-problem-reports.1016822/

- Added event to allow Dai Viet to choose between Confucianism and Mahayana Buddhism in the early game for owners of Mandate of Heaven.

That's great! Now all that's left to fix is Ryukyu which should also be Confucianist!