Should I be worried that I have so many unemployed?

[jztemple]

Just to set the stage, I've completed all the research tasks, so that mean I've got work buildings that need fewer people, and more babies are being born, and people are living longer.

I have just under 1800 colonists and 230 of them are unemployed. I'm finding myself just building things to try to keep people employed. I'm not really seeing any bad effects of so many unemployed, so should I just not worry about it and let them enjoy their Martian life on Easy Street?

 

[Chiruadr]

I started this game with the idea that people are important. But it's better to treat them like ants that work for you

 

[starkaos]

I think of it this way. Does it matter if someone is unemployed if they are happy and all their needs are met? Or an unemployed person could be doing a job that is not shown in Surviving Mars like an Artist or Video Game Developer.

With the way automation is going, eventually most of us will be unemployed. Unless we are doing a job that deals with Intuition or Creativity, then a machine will do our job better, longer, and without complaints. This game certainly supports automation since there is the Service Bots, Eternal Fusion, and Extractor AI breakthroughs that completely remove employees from all non-medical Service Buildings, Fusion Reactors, and Extractors and the Farm Automation, Factory Automation, and Fusion Autoregulation that reduces the number of workers. in addition to all the drones and outdoor buildings that don't require workers. So it is entirely possible to have a dome with 100% unemployment as long as there are no farms, medical facilities, or factories.

 

[Boyan_Haemimont]

The high number of unemployed in larger colonies is something that we were already looking at before release. We are working on something for a future update, that will allow you to address that in the late game.

 

[Xavori]

The high number of unemployed in larger colonies is something that we were already looking at before release. We are working on something for a future update, that will allow you to address that in the late game.

Why?

With the right breakthroughs, it's possible to have fully functional colonies that are completely automated which is kinda where the Earth is going and almost certainly what we'd expect most of any real Mars colonization mission to end up being.

 

[ModZero]

With the right breakthroughs, it's possible to have fully functional colonies that are completely automated which is kinda where the Earth is going and almost certainly what we'd expect most of any real Mars colonization mission to end up being.

The game frames the immigrants as people who want to make a difference, so I don't think they'd be happy to learn they're just there so that machines have a purpose. Even creative pursuits require one to be both creative and actually really good at it for most people to feel they're doing something worthwhile.

Historically large population that lacked a sense of being useful (either due to unemployment, or due to feeling like they're replaceable) tended to be a prime target for things like totalitarian movements. So without a significant mentality change that makes it easier to feel "useful" without having a "job" you'd have some really bad social problems. While making sure they have food and home might help a little (and is absolutely necessary), full employment remains desirable.

 

[jztemple]

I'm agreeing with ModZero on this. I'm all for my Martians enjoying the good life, but I imagine that one of the workers toiling on the graveyard shift in a metal extractor set to Heavy Workload would be a bit envious about some folks just kicking back at the Space Bar all day and might consider going renegade .

 

[ModZero]

Ah, no, what I meant was a significantly weirder thing that happens: the guys in the bar are bored, the guys in the metal extractor feel like their work isn't accomplished anything, together they decided that the guys in the university dome are running a conspiracy and have to be exterminated.

 

[Eled the Worm Tamer]

The high number of unemployed in larger colonies is something that we were already looking at before release. We are working on something for a future update, that will allow you to address that in the late game.

Can I ask, why late game when we have effectave birth control now, here on earth, and are there any plans to add more for our colonists to do, more sence of evolving society and culture on mars?

 

[DominusNovus]

Why?

With the right breakthroughs, it's possible to have fully functional colonies that are completely automated which is kinda where the Earth is going and almost certainly what we'd expect most of any real Mars colonization mission to end up being.

We'd then be pursuing aspirational careers, ideally.

 

[Eled the Worm Tamer]

The game frames the immigrants as people who want to make a difference, so I don't think they'd be happy to learn they're just there so that machines have a purpose. Even creative pursuits require one to be both creative and actually really good at it for most people to feel they're doing something worthwhile.

Historically large population that lacked a sense of being useful (either due to unemployment, or due to feeling like they're replaceable) tended to be a prime target for things like totalitarian movements. So without a significant mentality change that makes it easier to feel "useful" without having a "job" you'd have some really bad social problems. While making sure they have food and home might help a little (and is absolutely necessary), full employment remains desirable.

This is something I've tried to bring to the devs attention in at least 2 threads now, would welcome more input. https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...t-of-mars-its-not-very-human-centred.1082883/ and also less focussedly here https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/feedback-after-68-hours.1082106/

 

[Tennyson]

Should Mars have a consumer economy? Whole domes with just casinos and bars and diners and shops? Supported by other domes with the occasional electronics or polymer factory?

If the collaboration losses weren't so bad I would have just kept building science buildings.

 

[Wandering Sentinel]

Honestly I always looked at automating everything as a way to free people up for more important jobs; if I have service robots, that means my unspecialized workers can instead go to the university to become something that can help the colony out more than serving drinks in the local spacebar or cooking for the rest of the dome's population. If I could reduce the insane birth rate of my colonists, I'd probably only have unemployment when there's simply no more space for buildings in a dome instead of when there's a bunch of people living on the streets. The closest I've come to zero unemployment was 2-5 people per dome when I reached a point that the small number of people without a job wouldn't justify another building that'd work a single, half-filled shift every day. Considering these are usually youths waiting for a job to open up after training at the dome's university in the local specialization, this usually corrects itself every few Sols. It's easier for me to pretend they're doing some job shadowing or internship where they get people coffee until a proper position opens considering that always happens eventually.

 

[Zinegata]

Just to set the stage, I've completed all the research tasks, so that mean I've got work buildings that need fewer people, and more babies are being born, and people are living longer.

I have just under 1800 colonists and 230 of them are unemployed. I'm finding myself just building things to try to keep people employed. I'm not really seeing any bad effects of so many unemployed, so should I just not worry about it and let them enjoy their Martian life on Easy Street?

Yes, there aren't bad in-game effects to having a lot of unemployed people. Honestly treat it just like having a big surplus of resources stored in your depots.

 

[Zinegata]

The high number of unemployed in larger colonies is something that we were already looking at before release. We are working on something for a future update, that will allow you to address that in the late game.

Please let it be more things and more professions for them to do, like say manufacturing super combat robots to export to Earth .

 

[Eled the Worm Tamer]

Yes, there aren't bad in-game effects to having a lot of unemployed people. Honestly treat it just like having a big surplus of resources stored in your depots.

Of corse the way we come to treat colonists as just one more frungable resorcein a depot is itsef an issue.

 

[Zinegata]

Of corse the way we come to treat colonists as just one more frungable resorcein a depot is itsef an issue.

Not really. In very many economic management games labor is simply treated as another resource. And in any case as with most other games you're not dealing with real people, but just numbers. Why players insist numbers in one game are "people treated well" while they claim the numbers in Surviving Mars are "people treated badly" frankly is more a demonstration of how they have a very roundabout way of complaining that has very little basis.

 

[Eled the Worm Tamer]

Not really. In very many economic management games labor is simply treated as another resource. And in any case as with most other games you're not dealing with real people, but just numbers. Why players insist numbers in one game are "people treated well" while they claim the numbers in Surviving Mars are "people treated badly" frankly is more a demonstration of how they have a very roundabout way of complaining that has very little basis.

Fair, but most of those games dont go to the same degree of effort in marketing it on the strenght and detail of the simulation, giving them hobbies and vices and flaws, only for them to be cogs, some shinyer, some smoother turning, but ultimately replacable parts of the machine. The fiction that we are doing somethng graet and grand on another plannet swiftly wears thin as the options and systems of the game cant sustain it.

 

[Zinegata]

Fair, but most of those games dont go to the same degree of effort in marketing it on the strenght and detail of the simulation, giving them hobbies and vices and flaws, only for them to be cogs, some shinyer, some smoother turning, but ultimately replacable parts of the machine. The fiction that we are doing somethng graet and grand on another plannet swiftly wears thin as the options and systems of the game cant sustain it.

And CK King isn't just a bunch of numbers that are cogs in a dynastic machine?

The problem with this line of argument is its glaring inconsistency. Games in fact have never been able to simulate humans to a successful degree (except maybe for story-heavy games). There are no real humans in a game. They are just numbers. For these numbers to have meaning you need to create your own suspension of disbelief.

I'm already on my third game and for me it's still a game about doing something great and grand on another planet. And it's not because I care for the the individual "people" that are just numbers. Rather the point - which is very similar to Banished - is to create a narrative based on the trials and tribulations of your colony as a whole.

Players who insistently refuse to put in the effort will simply never enjoy the game and should stop blaming the game for it. Stop blaming the game for player problems, because if the fact that the "people" in the game are just numbers bothers you then you should probably complain more about other games that are just reliant on this conceit.

 

[Tehrus]

And CK King isn't just a bunch of numbers that are cogs in a dynastic machine?

The problem with this line of argument is its glaring inconsistency. Games in fact have never been able to simulate humans to a successful degree (except maybe for story-heavy games). There are no real humans in a game. They are just numbers. For these numbers to have meaning you need to create your own suspension of disbelief.

I'm already on my third game and for me it's still a game about doing something great and grand on another planet. And it's not because I care for the the individual "people" that are just numbers. Rather the point - which is very similar to Banished - is to create a narrative based on the trials and tribulations of your colony as a whole.

Players who insistently refuse to put in the effort will simply never enjoy the game and should stop blaming the game for it. Stop blaming the game for player problems, because if the fact that the "people" in the game are just numbers bothers you then you should probably complain more about other games that are just reliant on this conceit.

What is real, life is simulation, don't you remember?