Sirius Business - a C# Aurora forum game. v2.5

[Wagonlitz]

Laser PD ships as well so we can use them in a dual role.

Are laser PD really worth it, though?
Like, why not just use our usual Gauß PD as I don't see why we'd need to have a dual role, as only missiles should get so close.

New Freighters.

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Here is our current Freighter, the Mule V

Mule V class Freighter 34,865 tons 118 Crew 1,007.5 BP TCS 697 TH 2,400 EM 0
3441 km/s Armour 1-95 Shields 0-0 HTK 28 Sensors 18/18/0/0 DCR 1-0 PPV 0
MSP 18 Max Repair 600 MSP
Cargo 25,000 Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 10
Lieutenant Commander Control Rating 1 BRG
Intended Deployment Time: 16 months

2021 CIV SCAM Drive EP2400.0 HS-150 P-50 (1) Power 2400 Fuel Use 1.37% Signature 2400 Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 500,000 Litres Range 188.5 billion km (633 days at full power)

CIV Active Search Sensor AS66-R100 2004 (1) GPS 3600 Range 66.7m km Resolution 100
CIV PD Active Search Sensor AS14-R1 2004 (1) GPS 36 Range 14.4m km MCR 1.3m km Resolution 1
CIV Thermal Sensor 2012 TH1.0-18.0 (1) Sensitivity 18 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 33.5m km
CIV EM Sensor EM1.0-18.0 2004 (1) Sensitivity 18 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 33.5m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Freighter for auto-assignment purposes

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Moves at 3,441 and carries 25,000 tons of cargo.

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Here is an updated design, the Clydesdale I

Clydesdale I class Freighter 106,436 tons 573 Crew 4,943.1 BP TCS 2,129 TH 16,800 EM 0
7892 km/s Armour 1-200 Shields 0-0 HTK 112 Sensors 24/24/0/0 DCR 1-0 PPV 0
MSP 29 Max Repair 600 MSP
Cargo 50,000 Cargo Shuttle Multiplier 10
Lieutenant Commander Control Rating 1 BRG
Intended Deployment Time: 3 months

2021 CIV SCAM Drive EP2400.0 HS-150 P-50 (7) Power 16800 Fuel Use 1.37% Signature 2400 Explosion 5%
Fuel Capacity 1,250,000 Litres Range 154.4 billion km (226 days at full power)

2027 CIV Search Sensor AS88-R100 (1) GPS 4800 Range 88.9m km Resolution 100
2027 CIV PD Search Sensor AS19-R1 (1) GPS 48 Range 19.1m km MCR 1.7m km Resolution 1
2018 CIV EM Sensor EM1.0-24.0 (1) Sensitivity 24 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 38.7m km
2025 CIV Thermal Sensor TH1.0-24.0 (1) Sensitivity 24 Detect Sig Strength 1000: 38.7m km

This design is classed as a Commercial Vessel for maintenance purposes
This design is classed as a Freighter for auto-assignment purposes

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Carries twice as much cargo, moves more than twice as fast.

Of course, it's three times bigger, five times more expensive, costs four times more in minerals, takes twice as long to build, etc.

Why the name change?

Twice the loading and unloading time since the cargo shuttle modifier is the same.

Are loading times usually a major bottleneck?

 

[Wagonlitz]

We should take some factories to Harmony so they can build some of their own infrastructure with resources from the ships in orbit. Iirc that should also let us collect our RPs quicker by dropping off resources and slave labor there.

Wouldn'øt researcvh points be from where we dismantle the components? So nto factories?

 

[Acheron]

Carries twice as much cargo, moves more than twice as fast.

Two times the capacity delivered twice as fast, so four times as effective if the capacity is actually fully used?

Of course, it's three times bigger, five times more expensive, costs four times more in minerals, takes twice as long to build, etc.

Five times more expensive? So less efficient per cargo-delivery even if the larger cargo space is utilized? The extra speed might be useful both strategically an tactically.

 

[blue emu]

Are laser PD really worth it, though?
Like, why not just use our usual Gauß PD as I don't see why we'd need to have a dual role, as only missiles should get so close.

Small-calibre Lasers (up to 200 mm or so) are also ideal for anti-STO planetary bombardment, after the space battle is over.

They do enough damage to kill most ground units, but leave installations mostly intact.

Why the name change?

Because it isn't a Mule?

The different marks of Mule Freighters are all around 35,000 tons.

The new Freighter is 106,000 tons.

Are loading times usually a major bottleneck?

Depends on how far you are sending the cargo.

On an Earth-to-Luna or Earth-to-Mars flight, an extra half a day is signifigant. On an Earth-to-Harmony flight, half a day means very little.

 

[Wagonlitz]

Because it isn't a Mule?

The different marks of Mule Freighters are all around 35,000 tons.

The new Freighter is 106,000 tons.

Yerah, but if we tart only making large freighters, won't this then be a new mule?

 

[blue emu]

Yerah, but if we tart only making large freighters, won't this then be a new mule?

If we start making only large freighters, then the name is not a major factor.

So if it's no big deal either way then I might as well stick to my nomenclature, to my naming conventions, rather than breaking them.

And my naming conventions dictate that a really major change in displacement (35,000 => 106,000) requires a new class name.

It's no big deal, though.

 

[randakar]

We should take some factories to Harmony so they can build some of their own infrastructure with resources from the ships in orbit. Iirc that should also let us collect our RPs quicker by dropping off resources and slave labor there.

Mostly correct. It's not a bad idea. But research will be credited to the research installations on the planet where the components are disassembled. So you want those components on earth.

Are laser PD really worth it, though?
Like, why not just use our usual Gauß PD as I don't see why we'd need to have a dual role, as only missiles should get so close.

I see you forgot about the laser torpedos.

Wouldn'øt researcvh points be from where we dismantle the components? So nto factories?

Exactly.

Yerah, but if we tart only making large freighters, won't this then be a new mule?

Another problem is upgrades. You can't refit a mule to this new design. It's too big a size change. So when new engine tech comes along and you want them to the new engine standard, you will get a name clash.

 

[RobbieAB]

DP guns are good, but… the first thing the fleet needs is fast shielded PD, and lots of it. For that, the Gauss turrets are better than the DP turrets. The only thing the current gunships can’t deal with in open space is a missile swarm, they have been more than capable of defeating everything else we have encountered.

There might be a requirement for a heavily armoured battleship design capable of forcing the JP, but that is a totally different problem space and requires far less speed.

 

[randakar]

DP guns are good, but… the first thing the fleet needs is fast shielded PD, and lots of it. For that, the Gauss turrets are better than the DP turrets. The only thing the current gunships can’t deal with in open space is a missile swarm, they have been more than capable of defeating everything else we have encountered.

Laser torpedoes. Missile swarms with nuclear pumped laser warheads that fire lasers at ships outside Gauss PD range. For that a little laser PD for the eventuality is good.

Enemy beam armed fighters or fast attack craft. Same problem, same solution.

We haven't seen everything yet.

 

[RobbieAB]

We haven’t seen everything, hence I am not advocating getting rid of the DP guns. But we have identified a scenario where the enemy is quite capable of overwhelming our fast fleet elements, so my take is address the known issue first. I would also include in this the whole “fast AMM cruiser” option.

We KNOW we will have to face at least one more enemy missile swarm.

 

[son of liberty]

Cue (nonexistent) song: “Time Slows Down When I Think of You.” Part of the “Songs of Destruction” album.

"Time slows down when I think of you remembering all the hell you put me through"
Ode to my first wife. Biggest mistake I ever made.

 

[son of liberty]

We haven’t seen everything, hence I am not advocating getting rid of the DP guns. But we have identified a scenario where the enemy is quite capable of overwhelming our fast fleet elements, so my take is address the known issue first. I would also include in this the whole “fast AMM cruiser” option.

We KNOW we will have to face at least one more enemy missile swarm.

Thus the "assault vectors" from Ringo's Troy Rising series. Rocks with Super heavy battleship weapons including large spinal mounts. Ok, Troy and her sister Thermopylae beat that fleet, but those assault vectors were like pebbles vs mount McKinley

 

[Wagonlitz]

Mostly correct. It's not a bad idea. But research will be credited to the research installations on the planet where the components are disassembled. So you want those components on earth.

I thoguht we'd get enough points to fully research it, though. OIr is it we'd only hav the tech on harmony, not on Earth, then?
Would it follow the labs, if we later moved them to Earth?

I see you forgot about the laser torpedos.

Wouldn't those just be made to detonate outside DP range too?

 

[blue emu]

Wouldn't those just be made to detonate outside DP range too?

Even at the very top of the tech-tree, with late-game technology, the maximum detonation range for Laser Warheads is 80,000 km.

DP guns can easily reach further than that, with very respectable to-hit chances.

After all... DP means "Dual Purpose". It means that the weapon is useful against both enemy missiles and enemy ships.

So it MUST have a decent range. Otherwise it would be useless against ships.

 

[GarfunkeL]

If you download research data from a salvager to Harmony but don't have enough to reach the next tech level, those RP are 'stuck' there and Earth research labs cannot take advantage. Until you reach the next level at which point every research lab in your empire gets updated to the same level. So ideally you always want salvagers returning to either your main research colony or the one with the appropriate field bonus from an ancient construct.

Same goes with dismantling components at a colony, which creates a second reason to always return salvage to Earth.

 

[blue emu]

More re-design... Fighters.

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Here is the armed version of our current Fighter model. There is also an AWACS version.

X-Wing VII class Strikefighter 204 tons 1 Crew 241.6 BP TCS 4 TH 17 EM 0
35369 km/s Armour 1-3 Shields 0-0 HTK 1 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 0-0 PPV 1.8
Maint Life 0 Years MSP 0 AFR 40% IFR 0.6% 1YR 21 5YR 319 Max Repair 180 MSP
Magazine 12 / 0
Lieutenant Commander Control Rating 1
Intended Deployment Time: 1.2 days Morale Check Required

2029 FTR Solid Core AM Drive EP144.00 (1) Power 144 Fuel Use 1006.23% Signature 17.28 Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 8,000 Litres Range 0.7 billion km (5 hours at full power)

Size 6.00 Box Launcher 1973 (2) Missile Size: 6 Hangar Reload 122 minutes MF Reload 20 hours
2029 Missile Fire Control FC112-R100 (10%) (1) Range 112.4m km Resolution 100 ECCM-5
Equalizer 2030 (2) Speed: 60,000 km/s End: 38m Range: 137.3m km WH: 0 Size: 6 TH: 200/120/60

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a Fighter for auto-assignment purposes

A speed of 35,369 kps. Only 204 tons, with a minimal crew. Just 28 hours endurance, and an operational range (out-and-back) of 350 million km.

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Our revised Fighter:

X-Wing VIII class Strikefighter 208 tons 1 Crew 241.8 BP TCS 4 TH 17 EM 0
34669 km/s Armour 1-3 Shields 0-0 HTK 1 Sensors 0/0/0/0 DCR 0-0 PPV 1.8
Maint Life 0 Years MSP 0 AFR 41% IFR 0.6% 1YR 22 5YR 326 Max Repair 180 MSP
Magazine 12 / 0
Lieutenant Commander Control Rating 1
Intended Deployment Time: 5.7 days Morale Check Required

2029 FTR Solid Core AM Drive EP144.00 (1) Power 144 Fuel Use 1006.23% Signature 17.28 Explosion 30%
Fuel Capacity 12,000 Litres Range 1.03 billion km (8 hours at full power)

Size 6.00 Box Launcher 1973 (2) Missile Size: 6 Hangar Reload 122 minutes MF Reload 20 hours
2029 Missile Fire Control FC112-R100 (10%) (1) Range 112.4m km Resolution 100 ECCM-5
Equalizer 2030 (2) Speed: 60,000 km/s End: 38m Range: 137.3m km WH: 0 Size: 6 TH: 200/120/60

Missile to hit chances are vs targets moving at 3000 km/s, 5000 km/s and 10,000 km/s

This design is classed as a Fighter for production, combat and planetary interaction
This design is classed as a Fighter for auto-assignment purposes

About 3% slower and 2% heavier, but now has an operational out-and-back range of 500 million km (50% greater), and an endurance of over 5 days.

 

[randakar]

We haven’t seen everything, hence I am not advocating getting rid of the DP guns. But we have identified a scenario where the enemy is quite capable of overwhelming our fast fleet elements, so my take is address the known issue first. I would also include in this the whole “fast AMM cruiser” option.

Fair, to a degree. I love gauss. But we don't know what the challenge after the Modron will be and there are solutions to the missile cruiser problem that are more flexible. Be it less capable in the immediate sense.

We KNOW we will have to face at least one more enemy missile swarm.

And if we have to attack them through a jump Gauss is not the answer to that.

Thus the "assault vectors" from Ringo's Troy Rising series. Rocks with Super heavy battleship weapons including large spinal mounts. Ok, Troy and her sister Thermopylae beat that fleet, but those assault vectors were like pebbles vs mount McKinley

Rocks are specifically commercial ships though. They can't carry guns.
What you're referring to is just a battleship or dreadnaught

And I still think letting the enemy focus fire on a few really big targets is a mistake. An expensive one. For the price of a 30.000 ton cruiser you can get 100 wild weasels. That cruiser cannot survive 100 missiles. That's 1800 damage. We don't have shields that big. But 100 wild weasels with decoys? Definitely.

And we can make more interesting fighters, too. A fighter design with railguns or particle beams could do triple duty as point defense, for example.

Or something like this, posted by Steve on the aurora forums in response to a question if we could send drones through a jump gate:

If you want Starfire-style SBMHAWKs, then build fighters (or ships) that consist of box launchers and fire controls, plus 'control pod' fighters with sensors and a jump drive with the maximum squadron size and jump radius. Send them through in squadrons. After recovering from jump shock, launch all the missiles at the desired targets. If you build enough, they should swamp the defences.

Drones?

Drones?

aurora2.pentarch.org

 

[RobbieAB]

And if we have to attack them through a jump Gauss is not the answer to that.

IF we have to attack the Modrons through a JP, that means they aren’t coming through towards us, and we have all the time in the world to prepare and plan for it. If we assume that our feathery avian overlord is better at expanding and growing his power base, finishing the war isn’t an urgent requirement. Countering an attempt to attack us is.

 

[Wagonlitz]

If you download research data from a salvager to Harmony but don't have enough to reach the next tech level, those RP are 'stuck' there and Earth research labs cannot take advantage. Until you reach the next level at which point every research lab in your empire gets updated to the same level. So ideally you always want salvagers returning to either your main research colony or the one with the appropriate field bonus from an ancient construct.

Same goes with dismantling components at a colony, which creates a second reason to always return salvage to Earth.

Is the stuck rp just lost then, when you get a new level?

IF we have to attack the Modrons through a JP, that means they aren’t coming through towards us, and we have all the time in the world to prepare and plan for it. If we assume that our feathery avian overlord is better at expanding and growing his power base, finishing the war isn’t an urgent requirement. Countering an attempt to attack us is.

Waiting and allowing the Modrons to get big does mean they'd be harder to knock out, though.

 

[randakar]

Is the stuck rp just lost then, when you get a new level?

Yes.

Waiting and allowing the Modrons to get big does mean they'd be harder to knock out, though.

I think we can outgrow them. Besides, we don't have a lot of other options.