Social Reforms have no effect?

[unmerged(15350)]

I started up a new game of the latest beta patch; just to look at the pretty pictures. I decided to try some of the social reforms strategies that have been discussed; but social reforms seem to have no actual effect on populations? i.e. the effects that are in the reforms_effects.csv file don't actually appear in the game?

I tried loading a few random social reforms as a couple of different countries, but no effect appears? i.e. if you mouse-over different Pops the effect for is listed as 0.00 even if a reform is in place.

Other effects of reforms seem to be working; i.e. if you change all your government choices you will become a Democracy. Health effect pop growth (but not Con or Mil).

It doesn't seem to be just a problem with mouse-over.

 

[Waffen9999]

The reforms only work once Plurality kicks in. At least in terms of militancy decrease. Health Care works from the start. But if the plurality and the conciousness of the POPS is low, than reforms aren't needed and have no effect. That's just from what I've observed at any rate.

 

[unmerged(15350)]

So even the "bad" parts of some of the Reforms don't matter? i.e. some reforms actually increase Militancy, etc, but those effects don't happen either?

The population growth portion of Health Care as an effect, but no other effect either.

The Political Reforms also have no effect? Until some magic plurality threshold is reached?

 

[Waffen9999]

Yes I believe that's about right. It's based on conciousness and plurality. You can see it easy enough. Start a game and look at a capitalist pop or an aristocrat pop. Fire off Universal Suffrage and look at them again. If this is the GC shouldn't see any changes in their attitudes. >remember to let the game play for probably at least a month< I beleive it's becuase plurality is just to low for them to really care.

 

[unmerged(23946)]

The -x and +x values you see next to each reform affect consciousness and militancy. If you have 0 reforms at the start, your population gets +0.02 or so for each reform you don't have. Setting the reforms to acceptable or acceptable will subtract 0.02 or 0.03, so instead of seeing -0.02 or -0.03, you'll only see -0.01 or 0.00.

 

[unmerged(15350)]

The -x and +x values you see next to each reform affect consciousness and militancy. If you have 0 reforms at the start, your population gets +0.02 or so for each reform you don't have. Setting the reforms to acceptable or acceptable will subtract 0.02 or 0.03, so instead of seeing -0.02 or -0.03, you'll only see -0.01 or 0.00.

If there is any modification of consciousness or militancy at the start it doesn't show up in the mouse-over. i.e. if you load up a random small country with no reforms, the effect will be 0.00 for all reforms. (There also seems to be no effect if you watch the actually change in values.)

Presumably this is the result of too low a Plurality?

 

[unmerged(10416)]

So even the "bad" parts of some of the Reforms don't matter? i.e. some reforms actually increase Militancy, etc, but those effects don't happen either?

The population growth portion of Health Care as an effect, but no other effect either.

The Political Reforms also have no effect? Until some magic plurality threshold is reached?

It's not a threshold, I think plurality works as a sort of multiplier. I for example am playing Poland, con.mon, all my peasants and labourers have 0 or 1 consciousness, and there is zero demand for reforms. You can sail all the way through to 1929 without ever issuing a single reform, if you handle your POPs skillfully. Just take great care to avoid events that boost CON for your lower classes... you'd be surprised how damn fast plurality and MIL can be driven up.