Sol Research Question

[unmerged(624846)]

So I recently grabbed this game on steam for $10, figured it was a pretty good deal. Being a fan of past 4x games such as the space empires series and such I figured this was worth looking into. The faction I've decided to play, despite people telling me to do easier factions, is Sol. For some reasons I've always been more fond of the human like races over other kinds, ergo why I'll stick with this one. So far the game seems simple enough however I'm having an issue with the whole research tree stuff. I'm generally not used to the initial techs in 4x games taking like 20+ turns to complete and it makes it seem like getting the proper techs researched is crucial. After messing around with a couple of startup games I've got a pretty decent feel for the game, going to do a 8 player AI match shortly and just wanted to get some kind of tech path going as I've not gotten very far with that.

Thus far I've been told to rush Node Pathing first by one person, then another said to skip that early on. Another person said to do FTL Economics and go a trade route. From what I've been told Sol is a generalist when it comes to research so I'm not really all too sure where I should focus and in what order I should get techs. As such I'm looking for some input on here for what people would suggest for the first 5 or 10 researches.

 

[Ulzgoroth]

Well, I'd primarily suggest not stressing about it too much until you've got enough experience to form your own opinions. It's not like the game boasts an AI that will destroy you if you don't run an optimal research plan.

That said, I usually would focus on techs to increase my income as fast as possible. So Expert Systems and colonization biotech stuff, mostly. Working in some kind of point defense and probably Drone Satellites (as the earliest system defense option) fairly early, because they help quite a bit with random threats. (Losing fights to the swarm is a miserable thing.) Once colony expansion is nicely started, start up a trade network. This is on the premise of a pretty big game map...I don't play on very small ones where rushing weapon research might be worthwhile.

 

[unmerged(624846)]

My concern is with how long tech takes to actually research, let me give you an example...

Node Pathing = 80 turns, I build a research facility and add 2 parts to lower research time for node techs as well as sliding the Govt/Research cursor over to where I get the best time for research. This brings it down to about 45 turns before its completed. Now what exactly am I supposed to be doing during those turns? My fleets can only survey so far away, there are only so many planets I can afford to colonize that early on. So what do I do?

 

[unmerged(403992)]

Allways a tricky question that depends on your favoured style of play.

I found out a generall path that has worked for me and it goes as followed:

1) ftl economics - since i like the trade aproach. I decide early on which syste m will be used for productio. Build civilian stations at the other two of the three starting syatems and as fast as possible upgrade them to tier 3

2)atmospheric adaption - to increase population growth and increase terraforming efficiency

3)material aplication - the 10% cut in construction costs comes in handy

4)orbital drydocks - further decrease production costs and increase industrial output that results in shorter ship build time

After that depends pretty much on the current situation. If you are under attack the some weapon techs would be nice otherwise i would go for heavy freighters and later modular construction to further increase trade revenue. Otherwise you might concider the politics tree or maybe some drive techs to further increase travel range of your fleets.

Hope this info will be usefull to you and wish you all a happy new year!

 

[unmerged(624846)]

Allways a tricky question that depends on your favoured style of play.

I found out a generall path that has worked for me and it goes as followed:

1) ftl economics - since i like the trade aproach. I decide early on which syste m will be used for productio. Build civilian stations at the other two of the three starting syatems and as fast as possible upgrade them to tier 3

2)atmospheric adaption - to increase population growth and increase terraforming efficiency

3)material aplication - the 10% cut in construction costs comes in handy

4)orbital drydocks - further decrease production costs and increase industrial output that results in shorter ship build time

After that depends pretty much on the current situation. If you are under attack the some weapon techs would be nice otherwise i would go for heavy freighters and later modular construction to further increase trade revenue. Otherwise you might concider the politics tree or maybe some drive techs to further increase travel range of your fleets.

Hope this info will be usefull to you and wish you all a happy new year!

This is something like I was looking for, isn't that like 100+ turns worth of tech? What do you do meanwhile. How many turns do games normally go on?

 

[unmerged(403992)]

This is something like I was looking for, isn't that like 100+ turns worth of tech? What do you do meanwhile. How many turns do games normally go on?

No this certainly is not worth a 100 turns You have to take in to account that when you set you research budget in the piechart, you set what percentage of your revenue will go into research funds. That means that when you begin to increase your revenue from say trade, that money will help shorten the research time for the active project and projects to come. Then you have research stations as well, i usually have one up and runnig before turn 15. What I do is that i choose carefully what tech family ill specialize in on that station, and in my case its often engineering since both heavy freighters and modular construction are found there and are good starter techs. Also remeber that you get 2 generic modules that give a bonus to ALL tech families, and thats what makes them important to. Its safe to say that in this game "every little bit helps" to further your goals!

 

[unmerged(624846)]

Alright so if I'm making a research port at turn 15, what am I doing with my money up until that point? I typically avoid going for colonizations that cost more than 30k early on if I can avoid it. However the game starts me with like 500k, so what do I use that for? Even with colonizing as often as possible it doesn't really go down. Also how exactly does trading work?

 

[Ulzgoroth]

Research stations are useful, but they don't make such a huge difference that you want to delay your research to wait for them.

The key thing is, research time is entirely a matter of how much budget you can feed in. Early in the game, as currently set up, your empire hasn't got much income available to devote to research, thanks to high maintenance costs for your starting station and fleets and limited revenue from starting planets with incomplete civilian populations.

Adding a couple developed colony worlds will enormously increase the amount of research funding available and proportionately reduce your research times.

 

[unmerged(624846)]

@Ulzgoroth

I think I understand now, so as the game develops over time the research times get significantly lower due to the increased productions from my planets and such? I have another question then, what is the optimal way to go about colonizing a planet? Currently I colonize with my fleet and then leave them there until the income goes from a negative to a positive. Is that the correct way to do it or should I call them back immediately in order to colonize more planets?

 

[Ulzgoroth]

@Ulzgoroth

I think I understand now, so as the game develops over time the research times get significantly lower due to the increased productions from my planets and such?

Roughly. Specifically, as you obtain more net income, you can spend more on research, and research is simply a matter of how much money you throw at the problem. You can get any technology in the game (provided you have a link to it) in one turn if you've got enough income.

A key note is that you start with a fair bit of income even in the minimal 3-colony start, but most of it will be consumed by upkeep on the starting fleets and your naval station. At present, it appears that one consideration is whether to scuttle the station to save its upkeep costs. A level 4 naval station is useful, and costly to replace, but having an extra 150K per turn to throw at research or ship-building at the beginning of the game is also worth quite a lot.

I have another question then, what is the optimal way to go about colonizing a planet? Currently I colonize with my fleet and then leave them there until the income goes from a negative to a positive. Is that the correct way to do it or should I call them back immediately in order to colonize more planets?

Not an expert on that, I'd venture mostly an 'it depends'.

Obviously if you don't have anything better to do with your colonizer fleet, you may as well leave them on support duty. If you're playing Loa, it seems colonies don't grow until they've cleared all biosphere, and can't terraform themselves, so supporting to completion is mandatory. (I've seen it claimed that drop-and-abandon can work for Loa. If that's true, there's something I don't know about their mechanics.)

If you don't have biome colonizers, I think your colonizers boost population and infrastructure but don't help climate hazard. I tend to keep the colonizers going to beef up the colony until the terraforming nears completion. Which is probably similar in effect to what you're describing.

With biome colonizers, you can deliver climate hazard change from space, and I've heard that that doesn't damage biosphere as much as regular terraforming. So if you're bringing a bunch of those you probably want them to keep working all the way to CH zero if possible.

On the other hand, if you've got a lot of colonization candidates with fairly low hazard ratings (so they don't cost too much to maintain while they're terraforming slowly), hit and run colonization may be a better approach. Especially if your colonies have very strong growth, and perhaps are going to be overharvesting to develop. Like the SotS1 Zuul...and probably the Suul'Ka Horde, but I haven't played them yet.

 

[unmerged(624846)]

In these 4x style games I tend to stick to one race once I've picked them, just my personal preference. As such Sol is probably the race I'll be sticking with. As for scrapping the naval station, what are the pros and cons of that exactly?

 

[Ulzgoroth]

In these 4x style games I tend to stick to one race once I've picked them, just my personal preference. As such Sol is probably the race I'll be sticking with. As for scrapping the naval station, what are the pros and cons of that exactly?

The naval station grants some bonuses to shipbuilding in your capital system, carries some heavy guns in defense of the homeworld, gives a lot of support for fleets and defensive assets, and allows refitting. Building a new one will cost a lot of money and a lot of construction ship time.

Getting rid of it should let you get early-game techs much faster and, if necessary, build a few new ships. This potentially will accelerate your initial economic growth, giving you an edge throughout the game which will eventually be vastly larger than the cost of setting up a new high-level naval station if you need one.

 

[tyranny12]

Whereas I disagree entirely with scrapping the early naval station. I instead boost tax to 7 as long as my citizens will allow, slide the research slider up, and immediately research empathy. Usually done in a dozen turns from what I recall.

The early naval station is (IMO) essential for having a place to refit your ships, for sensor range, for the ability to base multiple fleets (!!) and for ship building discounts.

However - my disagreement doesn't mean I'm right. That's the beauty of the game - there is no 'right.'

 

[Ulzgoroth]

Whereas I disagree entirely with scrapping the early naval station. I instead boost tax to 7 as long as my citizens will allow, slide the research slider up, and immediately research empathy. Usually done in a dozen turns from what I recall.

The early naval station is (IMO) essential for having a place to refit your ships, for sensor range, for the ability to base multiple fleets (!!) and for ship building discounts.

However - my disagreement doesn't mean I'm right. That's the beauty of the game - there is no 'right.'

I'm not exactly an adherent of the scrap the station school...I've not tried it, though in my Loa game the Ghost Ship was nice enough to do it for me on maybe turn 20.

However, most of the benefits you cite seem completely worthless to me. Basing lots of fleets at the homeworld, where there's nothing to explore or colonize past the very first turns and no enemies nearby? Maybe 20% boosted ship construction in a single system which won't be my main shipbuilding hub very long? Sensor range, again, in the middle of my territory where there's nothing to see? Of course, I always play on larger maps. My assumption that the front lines are nowhere near the homeworld may not be true in everyone's game.

Refitting might be worth it. My last significantly-played game was Loa, and that's not relevant for them, so I don't have a good feel for that.

 

[tyranny12]

Makes more sense here. My predominantly played race in my recent games has been Morrigi. I am using full-size fleets to maximise the grav effect, and often have many fleets based at my homeworld for the duration of where something as small as 100k/turn is going to matter. So - race dependent indeed.

Also, on my current large map, my homeworld is a forgeworld. A full size blade fleet can get to most of my empire in one/two turns from there, and I have 50k+ IO out of that single world (yay asteroids.)

I can't speak for what I would do were I Tarka, Liir, or Zuul. Hiver I always base a ton of fleets at home until a more industrious world is found, and Sol Force I would *imagine* need all the supply bubbles they can get.

 

[Denjell]

Unless your homeworld has only 1 colonizable planet and you plan to station more than 1 additional fleet you want to delete your naval base and instantly rebuild a lvl 1 naval base, on 100 turns you will lose 6 million credits from keeping your lvl 4 naval base compared to a lvl 1, you will even save money if you upgrade it to a lvl 3 again to be able to retrofit, in any case, you dont need the extra docks or bonuses for your homeworld, usually you want to get this world up on trade, making it unable to produce ships effectivly,

DELETING UR NAVAL BASE increases research speed by about 33%

if you are rushing trade, get heavy frieghters asap! no reason to stack up on light freighters, they have the same upkeep (if you build em urself) you want to rush heavy freighters and put about 60-100k stimulus depending on the price on ur heavy freighters.

on colonization, if colonizing anything above 10k, have 1 command shit and 4 colonizers (add supply ships if you cant reach it) and colonize it, when ur fleet reaches the homeworld, relocate it to the just colonized world before continuing to colonize, also until ur world is terraform, max overharvest, it might lose you about 100 resources, but its worth it! when colonizing infrastructure and population increase terraform, so its a good idea to have abit more into infrastructur over terraforming for a few turns, i keep it at about 1 infrasturcture per turn

a good tip when play sol is geting FTL economics -> heavy freighters -> empathy empathy makes you able to keep lvl 6 taxation and sometimes dip into 7 without losing too much morale for when you need that extra money.


something ppl also forget is to always keep an eye on the "security" slider, there is no reason to have this above what keeps you from geting corruption!

 

[Ulzgoroth]

something ppl also forget is to always keep an eye on the "security" slider, there is no reason to have this above what keeps you from geting corruption!

It does give you more points for the espionage mechanics. I wouldn't be surprised if those aren't worth the money, but they do exist.