Originally posted by viper37
I am not saying USSR was all good and we should have all turned Communist and erected statues of Staline.
I don't think Communism could ever work, in any country (unless we an attain an unlimited resources system, wich imho, is impossible)
I am not saying US did everything wrong and should have sat quietly while Stalin was marching over the world. They did a good job on stopping Communism, but they created other problems along the way and now they complain everyone's bashing at them (wich I still maintain I'm not)
I think the US did a fine job in opposing the communist regimes. It certainly wasn’t pretty, and there are lots of despicable actions to point to, but standing against the oppression was the right thing to do. In hindsight it seems that communism would have failed on its own, or would have evolved into a more workable ideal, but who could have predicted that or taken the chance of sitting back and doing little? The US also wasn’t the most benign during this phase. But after all, it was our first time as a world power and we were thrust into a global struggle along with our allies. Maybe the next time it happens we’ll all have experience and history to fall back on.
What I am saying is:
1) Insisting you are always right, delibarately lying to look better than everyone else (if I was to do something like that in this forum you would all hate me, right?) is wrong. Arrogance never pays, no more than being too humble (i.e. not reacting to the soviet threat)
Agree with you, mostly.
2) There were reports from CIA (and other non-us agencies) agent's in the USSR and satellite nations that were suggesting that USSR was in financial troubles; it has nothing to do with being a psychic. I saw something about that a few years ago, just can't remember well (I don't have good memory about exact dates and exact terms like many of you seems to have)
AFAIK, most intelligence services didn’t really predict the demise of the USSR so quickly. They (Soviets) seemed to go from making reforms under Gorbachev, then a change over in government. IMO it seemed as if once people saw change would be encouraged, major change occurred. In any event, how could they continue such failure as the rest of the world bypassed them? Remember at this time Japan’s economy was surging forward. Poland, Hungary and maybe Czechoslovakia had economies that were improving rapidly as they went towards more market reforms.
3) US did a lot of propaganda and is still doing; US has never been a paradise unlike the claims of many citizens. No I wouldn't have lived in a country like USSR. I enjoy freedom. US IS NOT PERFECT. That's all I'm saying.
Rampant patriotism! Go USA!! I guess we can’t help it, but it also seems Americans know that their country or government has done some bad crap. People aren’t really stupid about these things, more like acknowledging them perhaps. But they still believe in the country for the most part, so I guess that’s why the patriotism. But hey, what fun would there be if there were no ugly Americans to knock around?
These days, such things probably can’t happen nearly so easily, but the US isn’t perfect, as you say. We’ve had to go through much change in just the last half-century – everything from becoming a major world power to implementing civil rights and equality for African Americans, and corrupt presidents being forced to resign.
Be thankful – people would really hate us if we were a massive superpower and perfect too!!
4) I did say there were thing I liked about the US. There's a lot of things I dislike about Québec & Canada (never lived anywhere else, only briefly visited)
I don’t know about that. I like it in Quebec the dozen or so times I’ve visited!
5) I am expressing my opinions in a calmly manner and some posts are not very far from the flame status. How is that for liberty of expression? I quited my previous history forum 'cause one of the poster was nearly flaming anyone who would not agree with him (I wasn't flamed, so there is no pattern here ).
Expressing ideas honestly is the way to be, and it’s not usually a bad idea to realize when you’re wrong.
Intellectual honesty – not always so easy to do of course.
OK! I’ll take your word for it! Probably comes with being French!
7) I have my principles: avoid lying, avoid cheating. I don't believe these things require constant use as the US govn't does. NAFTA is good. But the Americans cannot admit they might have made a mistake somewhere down the road that leads to higher costs and lower productivity than some of their competitors in certain fields. This is an arrogant behavior and it is not something we should expect from the "defender of democracy and free market". What is free market if US can't admit they're not first??
Not sure what you mean here. I see some criticism of NAFTA. Not all Americans are or were for it.
8) One of my friend used to say "A fault is a qualitry too weel accomplished". Maybe that's the US problem. By trying to fight the big evil they encouraged the small ones.
Yeah, some crap was done! Can’t gloss over most of it. Why did it happen I wonder? Because the US was in a nasty cold war? Because the US could get away with such things? I think also we were still being cynical and running things as we saw fit. Perhaps sometimes it was felt the expediency of the cold war called for such measures. Supporting dictators and oppression is hard to validate – maybe in some cases it was the most that could be hoped for given some situations. Still not good. Also, some of the people calling the shots had too much power. As I said earlier, many of such things probably couldn’t be gotten away with today.
9) I have never been a pacifist and I will never be. Hitler said in Mein Kampf that the moderates were the most dangerous ennemies because you could never guess wich side they'll choose. I guess he was right on that point. I define myself as a moderate. I have defended some of the US military positions in the past (I still feel it was right to intervene in Irak and Kosovo, unlike some acquaintances). It would have been silly to destroy all nukes while the USSR still had a huge arsenal.
I’ve always been more of a moderate too. I don’t see force as the end all to situations. Usually other means work much better. But if force is necessary, it’s not pretty and it’s not sanitized as many would like to think it is. That’s why I view military force as a last resort. Sounds obvious, but it’s too easy to use as a first resort.
10) I will never believe in the rule "kill many to get the one you need". Yes I know in Vietnam it was a tough situation, it was hard for the soldiers to know who was ennemy who was ally, but I still don't think it was necessary to burn entire villages. And as I said it was unuseful: the end result, we all know, US lost, forced to retreat, USSR and China rolls over everything in sight, the Earth shatters, oh wait? That didn't happen right? Here is what happenned: RETALIATION. It has nothing to do with being communist or not. Pinochet was not communist, nor was Saddam. Were was the opposition? You guys are confusing communism and totalitarism. Yes I believe in democracy, I believe in free choice, I do not believe in conscription but I would have enrolled in the army had they needed me (seems I wasn't bright enough to be an officer and being used as practice target in UN Peace missions wasn't appealing to me). Cuba is far from being as bad as they are portraied by the americans. There are a lot of Capitalist countries supported by the US&Canada that were and are worst than that. Btw, here is one more gripe about US: If you don't want to do business with a communist country that's fine for me, but don't apply restrictions on other countries who don't share your opinion.
Lots of stuff here. Yes, communism and totalitarianism are two very different items. IMO, communism doesn’t work, and totalitarianism equals oppression.
UN peace keeping missions often come under heavy criticism and well deserved as far as I’m concerned! When peace keepers watch innocents being killed because the UN either didn’t put in place strong enough forces, or their standing orders don’t allow for the necessary action to take place. But I still support the UN overall. Needs fixing.
I agree that it’s probably time for normalized relations with Cuba. Those Capitalist countries supported by the US&Canada that were and are worst than communist countries. I don’t suppose we should intervene there unless serious trouble occurs? Else we don’t have world support and we’re viewed as the bad guys throwing our weight around! How far should anyone go to encourage (sometimes force is necessary) not so nice regimes to get in line? Witness Iraq, Iran, and others who do as they wish, and unless they cause serious trouble how much should they be opposed? It takes time and a shift of attitudes for some changes to truly occur – it doesn’t happen overnight. Nation building and such meddling is nowhere near an exact science!
11) If communism is all that bad and if it was a real menace, than China is a threat right? Then how come it doesn't matter the US Presidents then? I don't see any embargo on China, even if they shot down one of your planes. Guess when $ are concerned, you're like everyone else, you bend on your principles, but still refuse to admit it.
China’s not such a threat, except that they might support some unsavory regimes (as I/you mention above). Their communism has to change in order for them to compete with the rest of the world. Realistically speaking they know this too. We’ll see what happens in the future.
12) I once got flamed for defending the US. Now I understand why.
If you can support and defend what you say, why should you be flamed?
13) If my lawyer had read this he would have deleted my post. Guess he didn't.
Nah, good post. Even your lawyer would support it. I had mine check my post out, and she Okayed it!
