Something is still going on with Vehicles

[NoodleYeti]

Information​

I have disabled all mods​

Yes

Required​

Summary​

Something is still going on with Vehicles

Expected Result​

City functioned properly when I leave it alone

Actual Result​

City runs into issues with a random thing. One time it was garbage facilities refusing to deploy more than a couple vehicles, the next was industries still unable to export.

Steps to reproduce​

Loaded up previous save, let it run for a long time.

Platform​

Steam

Game Version​

1.17.1-f4

Optional​

Description​

In one instance my garbage processors were refusing to send out enough trucks to collect the cities garbage, every single one was no where near the maximum trucks in use. In order to create a save file that I could attach to this, I used the -noWorkshop command, and loaded up a previous save and just let it run for a long time while I did some work and chores. This time, industries were abandoning saying there were not enough buyers for products, even IT Clusters. I can't report on a single issue, but I can definitely report that something still isn't right.

As I was writing this, I watched a train pull out of the cargo harbor with rail access that was a singular train car. This should occur shortly after you load up the bugged save.

I wanted to attach the original save file I was using but unfortunately I can't attach more than one.

Tags​

• Pathfinding

Attachments​

View attachment Westdale somethings still bugged.crp

 

[barrygreybeard]

ran your save for over and hour, no issues to speak of apart from an area where you have dont have a crematorium, I find they work better if you space them out in all areas of the city. The only errors I get are your cargo airport that doesnt have a terminal, that could screw things up? otherwise all chugging along OK. You do need to add residential, a lot of your buildings lack workers esp in industry. I like to have unemployed between 5 and 10%, rtaher near 10 if you can,.

 

[NoodleYeti]

Are you sure? I just loaded up the save, the one I posted where I already let it run since 1.17.1-f4 released, still with the -noWorkshop command and I let it run again for about 30 minutes now. I understand that no cargo terminal at the airport probably has unintended consequences, it would simply work without one so I never put one, I simply removed the stalls for this next run. Still, all of the industry and IT clusters complaining about not enough buyers for goods abandoning and rebuilding over and over. I can watch the Unique buildings and industries factories complaining about not enough buyers for goods and yet they'll only have 3/10 trucks in use, in the case of fish factories 0/12 trucks in use, or something similar and not a single one is sending their goods to the warehouses.

In the save file attached the garbage issue has replicated where nobody is getting garbage picked up and yet the garbage facilities have 6/30 trucks in use, 8/30, 4/30, 2/30, 7/30, 4/30, 6/30, 3/30, and 2/30.

Also, this made me realize that the new warehouse with railway connection still doesn't work right, at least with fish. It struggles to send out a train, and it says it has 30 / 30 trucks in use with no routes ever coming back to it. I'll make a separate post for fish since trying to view fish related building routes shows routes for other fish related buildings sometimes.

 

[barrygreybeard]

I have found your issue, for some reason you have hit the maximum number of active vehicles in the game. there is a limit of 16384. Your latest save is using all that number

 

[NoodleYeti]

I have found your issue, for some reason you have hit the maximum number of active vehicles in the game. there is a limit of 16384. Your latest save is using all that number

Any ideas how? I'm surprised I have hit that with the population it has. It was flowing smoothly before Hubs & Transportation and has been running into issues since. I haven't changed anything since then besides removing those cargo aircraft stands in that last save file. I've been loading it up every patch and letting it run to see if the problems persist and they still do.

Edit: I lied, I played for one more save after Hubs & Transportation hoping the issues would resolve itself.

 

[barrygreybeard]

its not easy but I see you are importing all raw materials, like oil ore etc, processing them and then exporting them, that adds a lot of vehicles, you could eliminate the post system. personally I never use it, just creates more traffic and my cities survive well enough without it! If I come up with other ideas I'll let you know.

 

[NoodleYeti]

its not easy but I see you are importing all raw materials, like oil ore etc, processing them and then exporting them, that adds a lot of vehicles, you could eliminate the post system. personally I never use it, just creates more traffic and my cities survive well enough without it! If I come up with other ideas I'll let you know.

Since this doesn't appear to be the place for this discussion, it sounds like a planning issue so I'll post this somewhere else.

In case it isn't, I would like to leave off this thread with a final save.

I went back a couple more save files, where I demolished almost every oil and mining importer I could find, it still says I'm importing a little bit but I couldn't find a building that would light up. I then completely removed the postal system. To then meticulously replace all specialized farming industry processors with resource producers, since in the last save I saw I was importing a lot of that. Added more specialized forestry industry processors and resource producers to create forestry products, this is to take care of the next step. Next, I replaced all general zoned industry with specifically the ones named "Frank's Fishstick Factory" since those ones import only forestry products. And finally, I added a couple more warehouses to handle the commercial goods exporting. I ended up with less than 100 units of imports.

It still runs into the issue I am having, which I assume is the vehicle limit as you said.

 

[barrygreybeard]

a further development, I have discovered that TME has a maintenance function to reset stuck citizens ans vehicles, using that the vehicle count on the first save you posted is now 3,214 and not 16,380. I will see how it performs over time. those stuck vehicles could be the result of the previous bugs in industrial traffic...

 

[NoodleYeti]

So, I'm certain something is still going on in the vanilla game, maybe not for vehicles, but definitely warehouses.
Once warehouses reach a certain point, they are incapable of exporting on their own, I can see it's not a vehicle limit this time since when I place down a new commercial goods warehouse all the rest unload all their vehicles onto it until it reaches the point where it can no longer send out vehicles either. I had also tried it out where I installed TMPE and de-spawned all vehicles. Still didn't work.

So, here's the story, I had made a map to test offices in. I had just moved onto testing IT Cluster, and I knew they generated commercial goods, so I put down a few warehouses to hold their goods and set them to empty so they would send them to the train station asap. Instead of doing this they would work for a little while until they were 100% full for balanced warehouses (or around 10-15% for empty? I can't remember while writing), then they would stop sending out any vehicles. I tried adding in multiple warehouses, and even the warehouses with railway connections. As soon as they reach a certain point they just completely stop working.

I attached the map I made for testing offices and the save file with the IT Cluster and Warehouses. The save file is using -noWorkshop and infinite money.
I'll note, I did create the city at first using infinite money, cinematic camera, fog controller, fps booster, loading screen mod, first person camera, toggleable whiteness, softer shadows, ACME, Patch Loader Mod, and skyve. Just in case having one of those installed is what is causing problems even with -noWorkshop.

 

[barrygreybeard]

I had a look at your office test. the goods offices produce dont have physical form so are transmitted to warehouses rather than transported. I used Transfer manager to see what was going on and noticed that every warehouse was sending out goods and receiving goods constantly, so quickly that it showed it was 100% full all the time even tho it was importing/exporting. The city has so much office space that the warehouses filled up at the instant goods were exported. If you dezone offices then all the warehouses start to physically deliver goods straight away. If you look on the Outside Connections tab, export, you can see the exports and the buildings that are exporting, none of the warehouses are as they are being topped up constantly by the offices trying to get rid of their goods. . The simuation here is basic, its not made for large cities or large quantities of anything, pushing it to its limit can cause inconsistencies but I think it works as intended. C:S 2 with its support for multiple cores etc will be a much better simulation experience and should easily cope, I hope LOL

 

[barrygreybeard]

just for the fun of it I tried to find out if adding more warehouses would help. I added 18 more large ones, then those set to empty emptied and those to balance started to balance out and roads full of trucks, some going to Rockwood, its always Rockwood LOL!!!

 

[NoodleYeti]

I had a look at your office test. the goods offices produce dont have physical form so are transmitted to warehouses rather than transported. I used Transfer manager to see what was going on and noticed that every warehouse was sending out goods and receiving goods constantly, so quickly that it showed it was 100% full all the time even tho it was importing/exporting. The city has so much office space that the warehouses filled up at the instant goods were exported. If you dezone offices then all the warehouses start to physically deliver goods straight away. If you look on the Outside Connections tab, export, you can see the exports and the buildings that are exporting, none of the warehouses are as they are being topped up constantly by the offices trying to get rid of their goods. . The simuation here is basic, its not made for large cities or large quantities of anything, pushing it to its limit can cause inconsistencies but I think it works as intended. C:S 2 with its support for multiple cores etc will be a much better simulation experience and should easily cope, I hope LOL

Lol yeah that makes sense. I hope C:S 2 will be able to support large scale things like this, and maybe have it make sense where my "digital" goods aren't stored in warehouses and exported by trucks lol.

As soon as I installed Transfer Manager CE (I played with some settings but I can't remember which) it immediately started working.

Well shoot, I thought I had really discovered some bug in the game. Thanks for the help again! It's not just an answer but also showing me ways to figure it out myself. I.E. TMPE and Transfer Manager.

Edit:

I was looking at this save file again, using both TMPE and Transfer Manager, as well as with -noWorkshop.
I happened to notice many vehicles struggle to deliver goods. If you click on them it will flash from "unloading cargo" to "delivering goods to large warehouse". I found it interesting that this occurs even while using mods.

 

[barrygreybeard]

what is good about transfer manager is that its a benign mod, it wont alter your system permanently. It's almost a game within the game but it does give you an idea of whats going on underneath the bonnet without altering anything. As to whats happening with the delivery vehicles... maybe the sim just can't cope when its push? I am sure C:S2 will be far more robust than 1 , actually looking at the dev diaries it would appear to be. Looking forward to it, and a great excuse to get a new PC, this one's from 2018 so about time...