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This is all good stuff. You are doing really well. I am impressed with your ability to conceive the events at such an early stage in your EU2 'career'. Thanks for having come by Interregnum and joined us.

I will start coding up these new events, as well as go back and start the Champa material too (finally!).

I need monarch names and dates from you. Feel free to give them stat ratings too.

Matty
 
I am impressed with your ability to conceive the events at such an early stage in your EU2 'career'.
Click to expand...

Oh no, I'm not new to EU2, I bought it when it first came out, and EU1 before that. I'm just new to modding.
 
MattyG: RE: the files you sent me

I think that Song should probably not have a core on Hanoi (662) at the start.

Also, I noticed that Jakarta is a known province at start; this makes sense if there's going to be a kingdom occupying that province, but doesn't work if there isn't.
 
So, if in 1421 in the Revolt of Lau Hon Fai, the player or AI does NOT hire Zhang and Fu, they should get this event instead of the "Zhang and Fu are feuding!" event.

Event: "The New Imperial Army"
"With the creation of a standing army, the Son of Heaven was presented with a new opportunity. The Imperial forces were still weak and disorganized, and not reliable or strong enough to simply control the warlords by force. Some of the Emperor's Confucian advisors have suggested appointing one of the warlords, a thus-far loyal general named Lau Chou to command the imperial forces. Others, including the prime minister Kong Cang, counsel against this policy and insist on direct imperial control. Whose policy shall we favor?"

A. Appoint Lau Chou and gain a powerful ally.
+1 Aristocracy
-1 Centralization
-1 Stab
-30D
Gain the services of Lau Chou.
Gain 2000 infantry in Guizhou
Gain 2000 cavalry in Guizhou
Triggers "Fate of Lau Chou" event just as it was.

B. Support the prime minister and maintain Imperial control.
-2 Stab
+1 Centralization
-1 Aristocracy
+1 RR everywhere.

Choosing B avoids the Fate of Lau Chou and the rebellion of Ma Fei, &c.

If a player chooses option B in "Zhang and Fu are feuding!", then there's an alternate revolt of Ma Fei like this:

Event: "Revolt of Ma Fei"
"With control of the armed forces in the exclusive hands of the Emperor and his court, the state is beginning to slip into chaos. The small Imperial army and its untested generals are seen as an easy adversary by many, and the rebel Ma Fei is agitating in the north."

A. We shall make an example of that traitor!
revolt in Hunan x2
-10D

Once the rebellion is put down, there is this event:

Event: "Order returns to Song."
"With the defeat of Ma Fei, the state is now under the firm control of the Imeprial court. It seems that our difficult times are behind us..."

A. Shan. Let there be peace.
-RR everywhere (so that things go back to "normal")
+1 Stab

This event should also avoid the events (forthcoming!) regarding the feuding warlords in the Buddhist period. I guess since events are triggered and not avoided, though, this would be automatic?
 
siafu said:
MattyG: RE: the files you sent me

I think that Song should probably not have a core on Hanoi (662) at the start.

Also, I noticed that Jakarta is a known province at start; this makes sense if there's going to be a kingdom occupying that province, but doesn't work if there isn't.
Click to expand...

They do have a core on 662.

I'll delete Jakarta.
 
Siafu, I think the options to create a standing army rather than support warlords should be much tougher in the short term. Large revolts, perhaps even bringing a coalition of warlords against you in the short term, rather than feuds going through the long-term. Otherwise it seems too easy.
 
Rhodz said:
Siafu, I think the options to create a standing army rather than support warlords should be much tougher in the short term. Large revolts, perhaps even bringing a coalition of warlords against you in the short term, rather than feuds going through the long-term. Otherwise it seems too easy.
Click to expand...


Perhaps. The alternative is that only by taking the tough path do you get a nice reward. So, if you persist with the warlords, for example, you currently get a leader who is quite good and lasts a long time. (He was good enough for me to conquer everything nearby and form China, for example).
 
...should be much tougher in the short term...
Click to expand...

How tough, specifically? I'm hoping for some akin, in "toughness" to the difficulty faced by Al-Andalus in the early game. There are also external conflicts that Song faces; do you think those would be enough to balance it out, or should the effects of the warlords' feuding and challenging court authority be more serious?
 
I reckon early on there should be a full-blown civil war to decide whether the warlords or the Emperor rules. Perhaps we could work in MattyG's idea sort of, and have it so that if the warlords win, the Emperor is weakened, and Song is ruled by a series of Shogun style warlords. This increases the number of powerful leaders you get, and makes the state badass at war, but also weakens the unified state as any warlord can attempt to be the top guy. If the Emperor wins, the state is stronger but the military isn't so great? Just an idea.
 
there should be a full-blown civil war
Click to expand...

Can we trigger a civil war, like the random civil war event, with an event, or is that not feasible? This would make sense, especially since aligning with the warlords increases the number of troops the player has, and a civil war would then involve larger rebel armies.
 
So, the first five Song emperors for the game are:
D A M Reign
Jun Zong 4 3 2 1410-1423
Ding Zong 4 5 3 1423-1430
Gao Zong 7 6 3 1430-1463
Zhou Zong 6 6 4 1463-1471
Fu Zong 5 7 5 1471-1481

Once Fu Zong is murdered, you either get Zhao Hui, or Zhou An as regent for Zhao Fan. So for Zhao Hui, the next few are:

Fo Zu 6 7 8 1481-1500 (Zhao Hui)
Jing Zong 6 7 6 1500-1509
Jin Zong 7 5 6 1509-1528
Chan Zong 5 6 6 1528-1550

For Zhao Fan, the few are:
Zhou An 7 8 4 1481-1496 (Regency)
De Zong 7 9 5 1496-1529 (Zhao Fan)
He Zong 7 5 2 1529-1550
Lue Zong 5 3 3 1550-1552


I don't want to plan out any more just yet as I'm still working on the events that lead up to this; I've already revised what I came up with originally like five times, so I'm going to leave these particular details for later.

The period of 1495ish-1525 should be relatively calm, a minor golden age of development, and coincident with the technological revolution that starts in Wei involving a tech group change.
 
siafu said:
Can we trigger a civil war, like the random civil war event, with an event, or is that not feasible? This would make sense, especially since aligning with the warlords increases the number of troops the player has, and a civil war would then involve larger rebel armies.
Click to expand...

Can't use events to trigger a game mechanic like civil war unfortunately, but you can create an assload of revolts and whatnot. Perhaps even have a new tag for the revolter and have some secede commands, though I think that's way too much. Hell, I even think it's too much for Finland(eh MattyG :p).

But it should be very, very hard to destroy the power of the warlords and restore the power of the Song Emperor after how far the Empire has declined.
 
We can certainly beef up the event consequences, but I don't want the issue of the warlords in Song to be dealt with completely until after the first round of religious strife near the end of the 15th century. Just after the Buddhist conversions, Song's Muslim neighbors (Nanzhao and Champa) are going to take advantage of this and send missionaries over the border, converting Guizhou. This means that there are possibly three religions vying for control over Song, and this is a perfect situation for local powerbrokers (warlords) to try to either break away or seize control.

At least, that's the current idea. Is that too much going on at once, or no?
 
I just played through the two rulers, five warlords sequence, and I agree it is a bit too easy. Maybe increase RR a few points, MattyG, and double one or two of the rebellions for starters, see if that evens it out?
 
Well, since no one had any comments during my absence, I'll just have to move on.

Triggered by:
Supporting Lau Chou in the Revolt of Ma Fei
+15 years (i.e., Lau Chou gets older and dies)

Event: "The Last Warlord"
"Since his rise to power, Lau Chou has fought to bring peace and order to the state, but his long life has finally ended. Without his presence and military control, some fear that the court will not be able to maintain control, but many of the Confucian ministers argue against this policy and favor letting the power of Lau Chou disperse into their hands. Which policy should we favor?"

A. Elevate the son to replace the father.
Gain the services of Lau Keung (1/1/2)
Aristocracy +1
Stab +1

B. The age of the warlords is past.
Stab -2
Aristocracy -1
+1 RR in Guizhou

Choosing option A leads to an event on the death of Lau Keung that determines whether or not this post becomes hereditary, etc.

Choosing Option B:

Event: "Unrest in the west"
"After the death of Lau Chou and the decline of the Lau prestige, Lau Keung began to agitate against the Imperial court in the west. The court, believing that the time of petty rebellions from local warlords had past, was slow to react, giving the rebels the advantage early on."

A. "This rebel is no concern."
+2 RR in Guizhou
+1 RR in Wenshan
Revolt in Guizhou (w/ rebel posession)

Triggers event for Nanzhao 2-3 months later:

Event: "Unrest in Guizhou."
"Despite a decade and a half of peace, the situation in the Song court is deteriorating once more as local warlords agitate for greater power. In Guizhou, Lau Keung, the son of the great Lau Chou, is gathering support to challenge the emperor. Perhaps we should approach this man and offer our support?"

A. Yes, there will never be a better time to weaken the Song!
-40 D
lose 4000 infantry
lose 2000 cavalry
revolt x2 in Guizhou
Relation with Song -100

B. We are too weak; it is better not to argue the Song court.
-40 VP
Relation with Song +20

...and back to Song:

Trigger: Nanzhao sends support
Event: "Lau defies Heaven!"
"The inability of the Imperial court to respond to the local crisis emboldened Lau Keung, and after marching into the city of Guizhou, he publicly denounced the divinity of the Emperor. Unfortunately for the court, this move was greeted with enthusiasm from the hundred surnames who tired of rebellions and war."

A. "We must bring this chaos to an end!"
Revolt in Guizhou x2
Revolt in Wenshan

(breaking into two posts here)
 
siafu said:
I just played through the two rulers, five warlords sequence, and I agree it is a bit too easy. Maybe increase RR a few points, MattyG, and double one or two of the rebellions for starters, see if that evens it out?
Click to expand...

I had already done so, having also found it too easy, but I have also increased the revoltrisk.

Also, as the rebel leaders now appear, they are a lot tougher to beat.
 
Last edited:
OK, I have been coding up the events and want to show what I have done and effectively respond to some suggestions.

If the rebellions get too much, the state might collapse, effectively enter a period of civil war. here is my modelling of it.


Code: 
event = {
	id = 643024
	random = no
	country = u37
	trigger = {
		OR = {
			control = { province = 658 data = REB }
			AND = {
				control = { province = 657 data = REB }
				control = { province = 659 data = REB }
			}
			AND = {
				control = { province = 657 data = REB }
				control = { province = 661 data = REB }
			}
			AND = {
				control = { province = 657 data = REB }
				control = { province = 1566 data = REB }
			}
			AND = {
				control = { province = 657 data = REB }
				control = { province = 1556 data = REB }
			}
			AND = {
				control = { province = 657 data = REB }
				control = { province = 1555 data = REB }
			}
			AND = {
				control = { province = 659 data = REB }
				control = { province = 661 data = REB }
			}
			AND = {
				control = { province = 659 data = REB }
				control = { province = 1566 data = REB }
			}
			AND = {
				control = { province = 659 data = REB }
				control = { province = 1556 data = REB }
			}
			AND = {
				control = { province = 659 data = REB }
				control = { province = 1555 data = REB }
			}
			AND = {
				control = { province = 661 data = REB }
				control = { province = 1555 data = REB }
			}
			AND = {
				control = { province = 661 data = REB }
				control = { province = 1556 data = REB }
			}
			AND = {
				control = { province = 661 data = REB }
				control = { province = 1566 data = REB }
			}
			AND = {
				control = { province = 1556 data = REB }
				control = { province = 1555 data = REB }
			}
			AND = {
				control = { province = 1566 data = REB }
				control = { province = 1555 data = REB }
			}
			AND = {
				control = { province = 1556 data = REB }
				control = { province = 1566 data = REB }
			}
		}
		NOT = { event = 643023 }
	}
	name = "The Collapse of the Song Empire"
	desc = "The long period of disunity and rebellion has consumed the Empire. The Emperor and his court are now seen as powerless in the face of both regional warlords, peasant rebellions, lawlessness and bandity."
	date = { year = 1438 }
	offset = 30
	deathdate = { year = 1460 }

	action_a = {
		name = "We have failed our ancestors"
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = -6 }
		command = { type = provincerevoltrisk which = 1555 value = 10 }
		command = { type = provincerevoltrisk which = 1556 value = 10 }
		command = { type = provincerevoltrisk which = 1566 value = 10 }
		command = { type = provincerevoltrisk which = 657 value = 5 }
		command = { type = provincerevoltrisk which = 659 value = 5 }
		command = { type = provincerevoltrisk which = 661 value = 5 }
		command = { type = domestic which = quality value = -3 }
		command = { type = domestic which = offensive value = -5 }
		command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = -2 }
	}
}

event = {
	id = 643025
	random = no
	country = u37
	trigger = { event = 643024 }
	name = "The Song Restoration"
	desc = "With the death of Gao Zong, the period of weak leadership and rebellion came to an almost abrupt end under Zhou Zong. Possessing a keen intellect and gifted with a brilliant general, Zhou quickly re-established imperial authority over a land weary of feuding warlords."
	date = { day = 12 month = june year = 1563 }

	action_a = {
		name = "Praise Zhou Zong"
		command = { type = stability value = 3 }
		command = { type = domestic which = centralization value = 6 }
		command = { type = provincerevoltrisk which = 1555 value = -10 }
		command = { type = provincerevoltrisk which = 1556 value = -10 }
		command = { type = provincerevoltrisk which = 1566 value = -10 }
		command = { type = provincerevoltrisk which = 657 value = -5 }
		command = { type = provincerevoltrisk which = 659 value = -5 }
		command = { type = provincerevoltrisk which = 661 value = -5 }
		command = { type = domestic which = quality value = 3 }
		command = { type = domestic which = offensive value = 5 }
		command = { type = domestic which = innovative value = 2 }
	}
}

In order for this to make sense, I need to shift around the dates and stats for the monarchs you posted. Gao Zong will now be a terrible 2/2/2 kind of figure, with Zhou Zong being MIL 8 DIP 7 ADM 7. he doesn't last all that long, but you get a good general 5/5/4/1 ? and Zhou's successor will also be a good monarch.
 
siafu said:
We can certainly beef up the event consequences, but I don't want the issue of the warlords in Song to be dealt with completely until after the first round of religious strife near the end of the 15th century. Just after the Buddhist conversions, Song's Muslim neighbors (Nanzhao and Champa) are going to take advantage of this and send missionaries over the border, converting Guizhou. This means that there are possibly three religions vying for control over Song, and this is a perfect situation for local powerbrokers (warlords) to try to either break away or seize control.

At least, that's the current idea. Is that too much going on at once, or no?
Click to expand...

I like this plan, the only problem is that we are looking at 70+ years of strife potentially for the Song which, while not unrealistic, is certainly going to make them a big chellenge in MP. There also needs to be an appropriate 'reward' at the end of it all to balance it, such as the rise of a great monarch. The Song will have explorers come the end of this period, and that is certainly something to look forward to.
 
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