Soviet Union Declaring War on Poland Before Germany

[dag231]

As a Soviet player, declaring waron the Baltic States (on the hardest settings) in January of 1936 and then onto Poland is a huge tactical gain. Poland gets annexed by late summer/early fall (November 2 iin-game for me) and you are now on Germany's border within striking distance of Berlin. As well, you have battle-hardened troops.

Why doesnt the Allies, who will go to war to defend Poland from Germany, or Germany itself, respond? You'd think seeing the Soviets carving up Eastern Europe would raise a few alarm bells in capitals.... Even Japan or Manchuria, seeing no Soviet troops in the East, should be a little more opportunistic....

 

[dag231]

addendum...

FYI - this is using Bolted's modified AI and a house rule of no allies (other than those starting with )or influencing nations......

 

[dag231]

Industry

Soviets shold have an industry penalty - Jan 1, 1937, my IC climbs to 470 after building from the start....

 

[dag231]

Rumania and Bulgaria

November 20, 1936 - Rumanian war

Feb 24, 1937 - annex Rumania

Feb 25, 1937 - Bulgarian war

March 22, 1937 - annex Bulgaria

Shouldn't this make Hungary, Czechoslovakoa, Yugoslavia, Greece and Turkey damn nervous? Possibly drive them into alliances with the Allies or Germany?

March 1, 1937: strategic planning meedting.... deciding whether to take out any of the above or just go into Germany with battle-hardened troops....

 

[Vynd]

Many people have complained about exactly the sort of things you are bringing up. The game right now lacks effective penalties for aggression by any country other than Germany. I certainly consider it one of the games biggest flaws, I can only hope that Paradox plans to address it somehow.

As for the USSR having too strong of an industrial base, well it seems to me that it ought to be greater than that of any other country except the USA at the start of the game, and I believe that is the case. Germany is within striking distance, and if the game followed a somewhat historical pace then Germany would have somewhat more industry than the USSR after annexing Austria, the Czechs, and most of Poland. So I'm not seeing the problem here, especially since the USSR does have to produce a larger amount of consumer goods than a Facist country.

 

[dag231]

Diplomacy

Would love to have more of an EU2 type diplomatic situation, where other countries will gang up on an aggressive nation....

Realistically, after I declared war on Poland, there should have been a Diplomatic Event, where I am warned by England, France, Germany et al, to cease and desist (I accept, peace is signed with Poland... turn it down, war declared on me).... possibly, if I turn it down, assitance goes to Poland in terms of manpower, possibly a few French, British and even German divisions - after all, Germany wants Poland for itself - no good to it to see Soviets in Warsaw...

Or even a Diplomatic Event where Germany offers an early carving up of Poland - accept, Germany declares war on Poland as well, and after Poland is defeated and annexed, half of the country goes to Germany and the other half to Soviets, but of course the Allies declare war on both (love to see the USA attack Siberia).... decline, and Germany declares war on Poland

Would also love to see the AI suing for peace as well..... say, Poland offering up 3 territories for peace.....

 

[dag231]

What to do.....

March 27, 1937......

The glorious Red Army stands with 26 battle-hardened infantry untis among its 42 divisions....

Our eventual enemy, Germany, stands with 37 amongst its 40.

Technology wise, the Jackboots, as the grunts liekt o call themselves, are behind Germany.....

Field Marshall Voroshilov, Army Chief, thinks Germany can be taken - but it would leave us very vulnerable to a surprise attack from, say, Japan.

Armaments Minister Kaganovich has an intriguing idea: take out Turkey and then drive towards the Middle East oilfields.

Now, normally, the Allies would be a bit offended by the Soviets controlling most of the world's oil. Germany, for sure, would be pissed, but Minister of Intelligence Berzin believes that he Allies would turn their cheek towards Turkey falling, and Germany is still obsesses with the Rhineland, Austria and the Czechs....

March 31, 1937 - war declared on Turkey.....

 

[dag231]

Like going Through Butter....

August 1, 1937 - Turkey falls...

Iraq is a pupet of the UK, but Chamberlain is still fixated on Germany....

August 16 - war on Iraq.....

Desert slows sown tanks a tad, but on September 23 Iraq falls.

September 28 - communique from London wondering what my intentions are... foreign office wires back that Red Army just making sure the oil fields are safe from fascists....

September 29 - declare war on Saudia Arabia....

 

[dag231]

Purges

Soviet purges should be greater... more lower rank officers killed off... Red Army has way, way too many officers.....

 

[dag231]

Strategic Redeployment

Strategic Redeployment should be re-examined.... for a nation like Russia, should take 8 months to redeploy to Siberia or so.... corruption, bad trains, etc.....

 

[dag231]

November 17, 1937 - Saudia Arabia war going swimingly....

Since the Red Army is down there anyways, November 18 - declare war on Yemen and Oman....

November 22 - Yemen and Oman are annexed.

December 5 - Saudia Arabia annexed.....

So, its December 6, 1937 and the Soviet Union controls the vast bulk of the world's oil, and has 40 or so very battle-hardened divisions....

Hmmmm.....

what to do, what to do.....

Finland, Hungary, Yugoslvia, Greece, Persia, Czechoslovakia or Germany itself..

so many choices, so little time....

 

[unmerged(2695)]

Originally posted by Vynd
Many people have complained about exactly the sort of things you are bringing up. The game right now lacks effective penalties for aggression by any country other than Germany. I certainly consider it one of the games biggest flaws, I can only hope that Paradox plans to address it somehow.

As for the USSR having too strong of an industrial base, well it seems to me that it ought to be greater than that of any other country except the USA at the start of the game, and I believe that is the case. Germany is within striking distance, and if the game followed a somewhat historical pace then Germany would have somewhat more industry than the USSR after annexing Austria, the Czechs, and most of Poland. So I'm not seeing the problem here, especially since the USSR does have to produce a larger amount of consumer goods than a Facist country.

I agree with penalties on aggression. But Germany or SU on the rampage in 1936 shoould dramatically increase the willingnes of the Western powers to go to war and to make strange alliances.

In 1936 the German industrial base was bigger than the Soviet. From a purely historical (non-game) point of view the industry model is totally ahistorical. (Not just that minors have assigned quantiites of steel and coal they never had, but the distribution of resources and industry in the major countries is faulty).

 

[Lord Durham]

Is this an AAR, or a General Discussion?

 

[unmerged(12330)]

I think that in a situation like this, France and UK should be very eager to make an alliance with Germany. Too bad it isnt that sophisticated.

 

[nalivayko]

I almost got slapped at the other thread for saying it, but I will not shy away from repeating myself - you guys have no idea of true Soviet potential in 1936. All this talk that Soviets had less idustrial and military potential is never supported with numbers. Please, in the future, if you think that some country should be given less of this and less of that in the game - give us numbers.

Food for thought: when Allies were marching through France and their industrial base was far more superior to Germany's (I am not even going to speak about the superiority in land and air forces), Nazis still managed to launch a suprise attack in Ardennes and almost turn the tide of war. If Soviets got beaten in 1941 it does not mean they had inadequate industrial base. It does not mean that had inferior military machine (yes, please, put a bullet in my head for saying it). It only means that Germany managed to pull off one of the most brilliant suprise attacks ever... which still did not meet its strategic objectives (Leningrad, Moscow, Caucasian oil).

I am a firm believer that if Soviets attacked first the outcome of war would be completely different. A suprise attack from the East would be even more devastating, considering that it takes less time and oil to reach Berlin from German-Soviet border than Moscow.

Sorry, I am afraid I will not be able to respond to further challenges for the fear that this thread will become OT.

Thank you for your attention.