SPARTAN REPLY TO AUSSIE CLAIMS (only decent posts please)

[KostasL]

Following are 14 Spartan replies to Aussie claims against the Spartans. These Aussie accusations were all posted in Paradox forum.
I expect Stalins_Elite's, Mighty-G's and Geofactor's comments to all. It is obvious that Spartan reply is most serious and decent and i expect same from our opponents.


Aussie claim 1 - Spartans were editing saves.

An editing saves issue.
Have you got any saves of our sessions, guys ?
If yes, you know how easy it is to prove such a claim ?
Do you know how serious accusation this is for HOI players like us ?
Probably the worse accusation for any HOI player and especially a host.


Aussie claim 2 - Spartan Germany virtually impossible to have like 500+ ic by war as well as 40 level 3 armour, all brigaded with SP ART. 40 inters and about 100+ brigaded infantry.

An editing saves or supply exploiting issue.
Except of doubting our honesty, you doubt our HOI skills, too. Place your bets gentlemen. I can make it again and again, every single time i play as Germany. Probably the easiest money i will ever get. So, waiting for your bets.
But before doing this, i friendly advice you to load all saves you got, and run some days or even months as Germany. How does it feel, eh ? Perhaps, you are wrong ?
To be precise : Germany by February 1, 1940, had 489/317 ICs, 33 level 3 Armour all brigaded, 127 infantries most brigaded and 45 interceptors.
If Stalins_Elite repeats it is virtually impossible, i expect him to say how much money he bets on this.


Aussie claim 3 - Spartan Italy and Germany joined alliances from day one.

An unknown issue.
name = "4:00 February 8, 1936 : Italy entered our Military Alliance."

Rule was that Italy would join Axis after ending war with Ethiopia. It is clear that this is what happened. I cannot understand Stalins_Elite point here, except the fact that saying that Italy joined Axis from day one is false !!!


Aussie claim 4 - Spartan Italy took nearly 6 months IIRC to annex ethiopia.

A phoney/never ending war issue.
name = "4:00 February 8, 1936 : Ethiopia accepted peace with Italy on the following terms : Return to Status Quo."
name = "4:00 February 8, 1936 : Italy have made Ethiopia their puppet state."

I refuse to comment. What can i say ?



Aussie claim 5 - Spartan Italy took about 3 weeks to annex Albania.

A phoney/never ending war issue.
name = "0:00 March 26, 1939 : Italy declared war upon Albania."
name = "Stalins Elite (everyone):why not landed in albania yet kthnos. more dodgy tactics?"
name = "kthnos (everyone):i am walking"
name = "kthnos (everyone):from the ship"
name = "Stalins Elite (everyone):hope so"
name = "8:00 April 1, 1939 : Italy annexed Albania."

I refuse to comment once again.



Aussie claim 6 - Spartan Axis give units to Allied minors to drain their manpower.

A cheap tactics issue.
Ridiculous claim. Italy sold 5 militia to Canada. No big deal but also not forbidden by rules.
But as Mighty-G complaint about, KostasL as a host offered to edit back. Knupp also claimed this to be a gay tactic in Spartan private discussion.
Anyway, even KostasL thought 5 militia sold to Canada not to be a big issue, he decided that the Spartans would not sell any divisions in the future in any games.

Please, see following post of KostasL in Paradox forum.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=281399&page=3&pp=20


After first session i posted this :

It would be great.
I think that we shall not give anything to Allied minors. This is for next session but also for all future sessions with Aussies.

I was just surprised by UK's whining and as i don't want anyone to break my balls this action will be forbidden in the future. All units given to Allied minors will be disbanded.

After reading my post Mighty posted this reply :

No, dont do that, it has allready taken time and ic to restaff those units play as it is.

Sorry mate but i wasnt whining, perhaps more of sarcasm then whining

I had a bitch in the game the other night because it is a pretty low tactic, if you have to resort to giving an enemy nation units, but it is your tournament or what not and i have agreed to play within the bounds of your rules.

All is fair and good, no need to remove said units. You made a comment when we started that axis usually loose in your games, im just hinting to the factor that giving units to the allies probably doesnt help that cause.

See use this morning

What is wrong in this case ?

Is this a fair tactic ? Did you agree with that, just for having excuses when you loose game, Mighty ?
Because i cannot think of something else. I said that i would restore everything but you said no, all is fair and good.

Most matters in a game are matters of rules accepted and/or things agreed between men who honor their words.

Is it fair for Spartans to be accused for this ? Isn't it gay tactic to agree with opponents just to accuse them later for what you claimed to be fair and good ?



Aussie claim 7 - Spartan Germany get 102 energy to Sweden for 49 supplies, 35 metal, 2 rares and 1.6 in cash ?

An editing saves issue.
Another "editing" issue ? I spent my time to prove what ? Something you should answer to yourselves by spending your own time instead of mine ?
Anyway for your convenience, i show you all my Swedish trades :

treaty = {
id = { type = 16384 id = 302 }
type = trade
country = "SWE"
country = "GER"
startdate = {
year = 1935
month = december
day = 29
metal = -4.0000
energy = 8.0000

treaty = {
id = { type = 4712 id = 2545 }
type = trade
country = "SWE"
country = "GER"
startdate = {
year = 1936
month = january
day = 1
supplies = -26.7636
metal = 16.6667
energy = 99.9800

treaty = {
id = { type = 4712 id = 3802 }
type = trade
country = "SWE"
country = "GER"
startdate = {
year = 1936
month = january
day = 20
energy = 14.5000
money = -1.6489

treaty = {
id = { type = 4712 id = 5407 }
type = trade
country = "SWE"
country = "GER"
startdate = {
year = 1936
month = march
day = 6
supplies = -18.0129
metal = 22.7273
energy = 43.9394

treaty = {
id = { type = 4712 id = 7089 }
type = trade
country = "SWE"
country = "GER"
startdate = {
year = 1936
month = may
day = 6
supplies = -17.2985
energy = 96.9697

treaty = {
id = { type = 4712 id = 9494 }
type = trade
country = "SWE"
country = "GER"
startdate = {
year = 1936
month = july
day = 23
supplies = -15.0442
metal = 22.7273
energy = 28.7879

treaty = {
id = { type = 4712 id = 40408 }
type = trade
country = "SWE"
country = "GER"
startdate = {
year = 1937
month = august
day = 18
supplies = 16.6667
metal = -60.6061
energy = -99.9800

treaty = {
id = { type = 4712 id = 73068 }
type = trade
country = "SWE"
country = "GER"
startdate = {
year = 1938
month = march
day = 12
supplies = 10.3000
metal = -33.3333
energy = -89.3939

treaty = {
id = { type = 4712 id = 119903 }
type = trade
country = "SWE"
country = "GER"
startdate = {
year = 1939
month = february
day = 2
supplies = 0.1000
rare_materials = -0.1743

treaty = {
id = { type = 4712 id = 163686 }
type = trade
country = "SWE"
country = "GER"
startdate = {
year = 1940
month = march
day = 14
supplies = 1.1000
rare_materials = -1.8525


What is wrong or odd ?
Which agreement was impossible to agree with Sweden and i edited it, risking my reputation as a host ?

Same bullshit i heard after playing one fucking time with Cohen. This ridiculous guy played with us once (he was annexed in 1940 as USA)
and after that game he begun spreading rumours that we edit saves because he thought Germany-Sweden trades was impossible. He didn't say anything during our game.
I accidentally heard about from people in v-net, 6 months later.
Is it possible that experienced players say such things ? Or some people cannot stand being annexed as USA by us during 1940 ? Is this the case ?



Aussie claim 8 - Spartan Japan's Phoney or never ending Wars.

A phoney/never ending war and rules misunderstanding issue.
Let's define something here. Most people got this wrong i am afraid.
What is a phoney (telephone) war ? It is a distant war of two nations that have no contact at all (like USSR dow Brazil).
Main reason for doing such a silly war is to get war economy cutting consumer goods to half. Japan did no phoney war at all.
Did Japan DOW a country delaying to annex or puppet it? No, Japan had wars annexing or puppeting countries without deliberately delaying. So, this is not phoney/never ending war issue.
In game rules and settings it is clear that this was not meant to be a single game. Aussies would be Axis in second game, so this Japanese strategy is definitely by no means unfair.
But still, if we knew how much important was this issue for the Aussies we would consider else.

name = "Geoslate (everyone):no plans to annex singkiang?"
name = "Geoslate (everyone)r commie china?"
name = "Geoslate (everyone)r tibet"
name = "Knupp (everyone):both 3 in 29 december geo"
name = "Geoslate (everyone):guess you can keep em goin till at war with me....if you play your cards right"
name = "Geoslate (everyone):war economy is good"
name = "Geoslate (everyone):how long you been at war with singkiang knupp?"
name = "Knupp (everyone):geo i told u i reach 29 december there"
name = "Knupp (everyone):whats the problem mate?"
name = "Geoslate (everyone):just asking"
name = "Knupp (everyone)k"
name = "13:00 December 21, 1940 : Japan annexed Tibet."
name = "6:00 December 27, 1940 : Japan have made Communist China their puppet state."
name = "21:00 December 30, 1940 : Nationalist China annexed Sinkiang."
name = "7:00 January 1, 1941 : Japan declared war upon Afghanistan."
name = "Geoslate (everyone):i see you have solved the war economy knupp"
name = "Knupp (everyone):yepp"

Above dialogues from history show Geo a bit nervous and Knupp relaxed.
Why is that Geo ? Did we want to robb you and your mates ?
Next game wasn't agreed that you take Japan and could do same ?
You all seemed to forget this, during our game and seemed to consider our game, a single game like the usual HOI multis.

 

[KostasL]

Aussie claim 9 - Spartan Japan had a Convoy coming our of a puppet nation.

An unknown or editing saves issue.
Japan always has convoys and gets resources from puppets. Do i miss something ?
Manila-San Francisco and Monrovia - Manchester sound familiar to you, Mighty ?

Anyway, Hanoi convoyed some 3,000 rares to Tokyo till last save.



Aussie claim 10 - Spartan Japanese had most forces in puppets.

A rules misunderstanding issue.
Rule is to supply your units in full during peace. This is only supply rule. There is no such exploit as placing Japanese forces in puppets, during war.
Rule is so written because many players get paranoid about supply exploits and we would not let such a paranoid determine Japan's strategy and decisions during war.
I remind that Aussies were about to take Axis against us in second game.



Aussie claim 11 - Spartan Germany gave exp forces to Axis allies to exploit supplies.

A rules misunderstanding issue or a "Spartans exploited their balls off" issue.
Rule is to supply your units in full during peace. This is only supply rule. There is no such exploit as giving exp forces during war.

Germany between September 25 and September 29, 1940 (by this date it was clear that Russia would be annexed), sent as exp force, 11 interceptors, 12 CAS and 6 tactical bombers to Italy, 11 infantries and 1 cavalry to Spain and 51 interceptors to Romania. Totally 92 units organized in 27 armies/formations.
This was not done for supply and oil savings. Purpose was to lower German TC so that panzers heading to Vladivostoc would reach there earlier. It was a long time you see but it was only a matter of time.
Funny is that it was the very first time i did exp force and i would continue giving land units so that my panzers would move a little faster but as i kept giving exp forces to my allies i thought that speed was not increasing as i much as i thought, so i just quit giving exp forces. Otherwise i would give more units.

Spartans are completely innocent about this issue. Not 1, not 2 but 10 points!!! support this claim :

1. Rule 7.3 was to supply your forces in full during peace. So this was according to rules. Even so, Spartans did not do this for supply saving purposes and did not do this to the scale that Aussies accused us.

2. Let's consider that there was no rule. Why the hell would i do something that would be considered exploit by my opponents ? Please, see save of September 25, 1940 (by this date it was clear that Russia would be annexed). Let's consider my Germany needs to exploit supplies. The so called exploit is valued 115 supplies/day. Italy alone could give me the 115 supplies/day. In fact Italy could give me an extra 250 supplies/day if i asked to. Why risk to get something i already got ?

3. Let's also add the fact that in our last save March 8, 1941, Germany had 633 ICs and IF they got ALL EXP FORCE returned, supply needs would be STILL 0 (zero), nothing, null, and still Germany would be +28 supplies daily !!! Germany had 633 ICs and needed none of them for supplies, supplying all it's forces in full. Why exploit at all ?

4. Consider that above was not true, let's say that Germany needs to give ICs for supplies production. Why risk exploiting supplies when i got a huge number of spare ICs, which were building new industries because i didn't need anything else to produce !!! At our last save, March 8, 1941, German ICs were just numbers for me, 633 ICs with about 80-90 ICs of them building new industries and 70 ICs were used to lower my dissent which was about 1% !!!
I wouldn't mind having 600 ICs at that moment having lots of ICs producing supplies. If i needed supplies it is.
I feel that i am accused not only for cheating but also for extreme stupidity, i don't know which one is worse.

5. Consider that if it was supply exploiting, why would i give those aircrafts to Italy ? I should give them to an AI ally, right ?
I repeat i feel that i am accused not only for cheating but also for extreme stupidity.

6. Consider that if i would give exp forces for supply exploiting then i would give larger and more supply and oil consuming units. I gave 92 divisions organized in 27 armies/formations !!! All these consumed 115 Supplies and 90 oil (only if ALL aircrafts were assigned missions).
Gentlemen, if i wanted to exploit then i would give 4 large armour armies of 12 panzer divisions each. Totally saving of 153 supplies and 345 oil each and every fucking day.
I repeat i feel that i am accused not only for cheating but also for extreme stupidity.

7. Consider that any random save of you, would show if there were any Axis units given as Exp Force, isn't it so ? Check any random or rehost save you got. I am sure there is no Exp Force, not even a single unit.
Mercy me, i once again feel that i am accused not only for cheating but also for extreme stupidity.

8. Consider that if i thought this to be an exploit i would attempt to keep this a secret. Any random save of you could reveal my dirty secret, isn't it so ? But let's say that you never got random saves and never saved game when players disconnected and had to rehost game. Shouldn't i make sure all units were returned to their original owners at the end of session ? So, why the fuck did i give 27 different exp forces which were spread all over the map ? In Denmark, Germany, Baltics, Russia, Persia, Spain !!!
So, i repeat If i wanted to exploit then i would give 4 large armour armies of 12 panzer divisions each. Not only better supplies and oil saving but also more convenient to returned to their original owners at the end of session or any given time.
I repeat i feel that i am accused not only for cheating but also for extreme stupidity.

9. Consider that game history recorded is Germany's history, as Germany was host's country. So, check game's history, I am sure there is no Exp Force, not even a single unit, before September 25, 1940 (by this date it was clear that Russia would be annexed).

10. Also, consider last revealing dialogues from our game (March 8, 1941):

name = "Geoslate (everyone):would giving your troops to a minor to save supplies be considered an exploit?"
name = "KostasL (custom):during peace time yes"
name = "Geoslate (everyone):allowed during war?"
name = "kthnos (custom):yes"
name = "KostasL (custom):all written"
name = "Geoslate (everyone):but not an exploit?"
name = "kthnos (everyone):yes"
name = "KostasL (custom):written"
name = "Knupp (everyone):read the rules"
name = "KostasL (custom):if you can read np"
name = "Geoslate (everyone):i have read the rules"
name = "KostasL (custom):so?"
name = "Knupp (everyone)lz read the rules to avoid silly misunderstandings"
name = "Geoslate (everyone):cause you guys...."
name = "Geoslate (everyone):not a silly misunderstanding"
name = "KostasL (custom):hmmmm"
name = "Geoslate (everyone):an exploit is an exploit....no what the rules say"
name = "Geoslate (everyone):matter"
name = "KostasL (custom):no matter the rules"
name = "KostasL (custom):lol"
name = "kthnos (everyone):u agreed with these rules"
name = "Knupp (everyone):what are u talkning about geo?"
name = "kthnos (everyone):why u didnt say some thing at the beggining?"
name = "kthnos (everyone):u will the rematch"
name = "kthnos (everyone):do the same at war"
name = " Stalins Elite (everyone):biggest fucking contradiction i have ever heard"
name = "kthnos (everyone):u can do the same when u will have axis"
name = "kthnos (everyone)k?"
name = "Knupp (everyone):u should say that in beggining stalins also"
name = "Geoslate (everyone):rule 7.1 and 7.3 contradict themselves"
name = "KostasL (custom):i could do thousands supplies per day"
name = "kthnos (everyone):is that an exploit?"
name = "kthnos (everyone):read the rules"
name = "KostasL (custom):even if i see someone do exploit i discuss it "
name = "kthnos (everyone):if u thought it was an exploit"
name = " Stalins Elite (everyone):and japan has had navy based in indo china for most of game?"
name = "KostasL (custom):we could agree to change rule"
name = "KostasL (custom)r whatever"
name = "kthnos (everyone):why u didnt say something at 1 jan 36???"
name = "Geoslate (everyone):rule number 7.1 says no exploits or cheating of any kind"
name = "KostasL (custom)nly decent game i wanted"
name = "KostasL (custom):there is specific rule about"
name = "KostasL (custom):during peace time"
name = "kthnos (everyone):why u didnt say something at the beggining of the game about rules 7.1 and 7.3?"
name = "kthnos (everyone):and u do it now???"
name = "Geoslate (everyone):ill reapeat rule number 7.1"
name = "KostasL (custom):we could not do this "
name = "KostasL (custom):if you didnt like it"
name = "Geoslate (everyone):an exploit is an exploit"
name = "KostasL (custom)aranoid is paranoid"
name = "KostasL (custom):dont be such"
name = "kthnos (everyone):u think we won about those 52 interc to romania?"
name = "kthnos (everyone)k we will subtract 20000 supplies with editing?"
name = "kthnos (everyone)k?"
name = "KostasL (custom):its was ok what i did"
name = "kthnos (everyone):from axis"
name = "KostasL (custom):even you think else"
name = "kthnos (everyone):satisfied?"
name = "KostasL (custom):but"
name = "KostasL (custom):i could avoid it if you said so"
name = "KostasL (custom):thats all"
name = " Stalins Elite (everyone):kthnos sending italian militia to allied minors to bleed MP is an exploit as well"
name = "kthnos (everyone):u can do the same at the rematch"
name = "kthnos (everyone):u can do the same stuff"

According to these dialogues and Stalins_Elite private conversation with Knupp (unfortunately not saved by dissapointed Knupp) :

Isn't it obvious that Spartans thought that giving Exp Forces to allies, during war, was according to rules ?

Isn't it obvious that Aussies didn't know the rules or found that 7.1 and 7.3 contradict each other, on March 8, 1941, during 7th session ?

Isn't it obvious that Spartans stated that if they knew you reject 7.3 they would change the rule and never send exp forces or whatever ?

Isn't it obvious that though Aussies rejected Spartans rules on March 8, 1941, during 7th session, Spartans showed good will ?
We offered to edit save, subtract all supplies saved from Axis, change the rules and once again we reminded your option, that as Axis you could do same. We offered all options that decent and good willing players could offer AND decent and good willing players would accept.

It is clear that above Spartan detailed line of arguement, turned above Aussie claim to dust. This is true for ALL rational and goodwilling players.



Aussie claim 12 - Rules 7.1 and 7.3 contradict each other.

A rules misunderstanding issue.
7.1 No use of any exploits or cheating of any kind.
7.3 Each country must supply all its forces (land,naval or air) in full, during peace time.

7.1 is a general rule to guarantee a decent and fair game. Many times some odd bugs appear and/or new exploiting tactics used by players, that's why this rule must be always included. But this rule by no means contradict to any other written rule.
Common sense indicates that it is just there for exploits and cheats that are not covered by other specific rules written.
Example : before adopting rule 2.7 "Fund partizans operations are NOT allowed", we played with some guys who started using this buggy option. Though it was not forbidden by rules to fund partizans, i claimed that this tactic was forbidden by rule 7.1.

7.3 is clear enough as a rule. There can be no argue during 7th session if a rule is good or bad, during 7th session only agreed rules exist. Rules were publiced in Spartan sub-forum all the time and were also sent by KostasL in Paradox Aussie team thread, long before starting session, to make sure all Aussies have access to rules.



Aussie claim 13 - Spartans make rules and then play in the grey area of these rules.

A "Spartans being totally bastards" issue.
There is no grey zone in our rules. Most opponents think same. What's more, all opponents understand that a double game guarantees that the competition is fair.
Teams play both Axis and Allies, same tactics allowed guaranteed, same rules guaranteed, same chances guaranteed, best team wins guaranteed.
Spartans respect both their rules and their opponents.

There can be no argue, during 7th session, if rules are good or bad, during 7th session only agreed rules exist. Rules were publiced in Spartan sub-forum all the time and were also sent by KostasL in Paradox Aussie team thread, long before starting session, to make sure all Aussies have access to rules.

Aussies saw grey areas because they didn't pay attention to the rules. We could discuss before we start.
You know, we, more than often, adopt a few rules that our opponent teams consider necessary.
But Aussies didn't say anything, they just got in our game, having in their own mind their Aussie games and their own rules.
Why are we accused for this ?

Even so, the Spartans showed good will in each case Aussies insisted or protested for something.
Spartans offered to change rules during game, restore something by editing, restore something by rehost,
and i once again remind you that the game was double and Aussies had the opportunity to play as Axis, too.



Aussie claim 14 - Spartans won the game because all of the above.

A "Spartans won the game because of all above" issue.
Well, let's load our last save of March 8, 1941. Let's make necessary steps to restore what is considered by Aussie team as cheated and exploited.

Step 1. Delete the 5 militia that Canada got from Italy and create 3 infantries instead or just give 30 manpower to Canada.
Step 2. Subtract 3,000 rares from Japan convoyed from Hanoi.
Step 3. Subtract 18,400 supplies and 7,000 oil from Germany and Italy, all these were saved by giving exp forces to Axis minors.

Now, after having done all the above let's save and let's load our new edited and exploit free save !!!
It is still very clear that our Axis side is clear victor. All reliable players that took the saves can testify this for sure.




EPILOGUE
In conclusion the whole matter was a matter of Aussie getting touchy and misunderstanding of both the game rules and the Spartans. This often happens when people play for first time in a multi. I can understand this.
Not a matter of different playstyles. There is no such thing. In any game you read rules first and then, according to the rules, you plan your team strategy to win.

We could change a few rules and discuss a few more things about the game before we start and then you would feel more comfortable, i suppose.

What i cannot understand is why our opponents started a smear campaign against us so easily.
What else i cannot understand is why our opponents didn't take some time to rethink of what they have said and written. I feel sorry and dissapointed. Well, it is never too late.

All above Spartan words are 100% true. NOBODY can deny this. Please, do not try to do so.
One can say this or that and start endless arguements about a rule or tactic but NOT say that they are not true.

We don't want to attack anyone with this reply.

Justice and truth is all we ask.


I still hope that we can leave the past behind and shake our hands honestly.

 

[KostasL]

Stalins_Elite comments :

Claim 1 : Stalins_Elite finds it difficult to admit that he posted
Claim 2 : false accusations.
Claim 3 : So many bullshit posted and so many things said by him
Claim 4 : that he finds it difficult now to reply like he should.
Claim 5 : I hope he will change his mind. It is never too late.
Claim 6 : For his own good as a person. I am ok with my consience.
Claim 7 : I can understand how Stalins_Elite may feel now.
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Claim 9 : I repeat i only want justice and truth.
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Mighty-G comments :

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Geofactor comments :

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[Nicophorus]

At least we now hear the other side of the story.

I think alot of people call foul when something unexpected happens in a game, yet is not against the agreed upon rules.

 

[unmerged(59421)]

Like I have said recently in other threads here on P'dox forums. It wasn't editing, it wasn't playing in the grey area of your rules blah blah blah blah. It is looking at saves to give you the edge over your opponents. But the thing is Kosta's, you have no way to prove you guys didn't, and then we have no way to prove you'se did. What we have are another group of fair and decent players that have played against you that have caught atleast 1 of your team members out. That is the main thing, and it is because of the French teams post that this thread has been posted here on Paradox. All I just read was BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH, Spartans need to glorify themselves utter crap. The one big thing you never posted anything about was possibally the biggest exploit and cheat of the whole game, looking at saves. Like I already said, no point talking about something that cannot be proved for or against huh! Thread closed. SE.

 

[KostasL]

Like I have said recently in other threads here on P'dox forums. It wasn't editing, it wasn't playing in the grey area of your rules blah blah blah blah. It is looking at saves to give you the edge over your opponents. But the thing is Kosta's, you have no way to prove you guys didn't, and then we have no way to prove you'se did. What we have are another group of fair and decent players that have played against you that have caught atleast 1 of your team members out. That is the main thing, and it is because of the French teams post that this thread has been posted here on Paradox. All I just read was BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH, Spartans need to glorify themselves utter crap. The one big thing you never posted anything about was possibally the biggest exploit and cheat of the whole game, looking at saves. Like I already said, no point talking about something that cannot be proved for or against huh! Thread closed. SE.

I expected that you would react like this when truth comes to light. Don't you want to reply like a man ? Is it difficult to admit that you posted these things (lies is the word but i don't want to use it) ?

I expect now at least Geofactor will do the right thing.

As for French team claims, wait to see also. Don't try to hide behind this because i will uncover you. Truth shines like the sun Stalins_Elite, i have no doubt.

 

[KostasL]

At least we now hear the other side of the story.

I think alot of people call foul when something unexpected happens in a game, yet is not against the agreed upon rules.

Anyone who got the saves or only read my post can understand a lot.

 

[KostasL]

The one big thing you never posted anything about was possibally the biggest exploit and cheat of the whole game, looking at saves. Like I already said, no point talking about something that cannot be proved for or against huh! Thread closed. SE.

I thought that looking saves was one of your favourite hobbies. Me too like to talk only about things that i can prove. That's why i turned to dust all your 14 filthy accusations and now it is my turn to accuse you for opening saves during sessions.

"While the game was going one of our team members made a random save and then loaded it on his other PC. Romania had 52 interceptors, WTF??? Japan had his navy based in his puppet of Indo-China. Only 4 divisions were on mainland Japan."
Remember your words Stalins_Elite ? You give new dimensions and depth to word "hypocrisy".
I didn't even accuse you for this even it was so easy and obvious.


Arguing with you is even easier for me than playing HOI against you.

No further comments. :rofl:

 

[unmerged(59421)]

Yes that save was made in the very last session just before we walked out Kosta's, and IIRC that conversation, you acctually told us to make a save and check it. Wether you meant then and there I don't know for sure as you never specified. But I find it very interesting that every time we said save because it was getting late you and your team mates always said 2 more days, just 2 more days. IIRC that happened several times, why? Perhaps Japan needed to set up certain supply convoys to China maybe. Perhaps EXP'd forces needed to be taken back from axis minors. I checked Italy's, Germanies and Japans saves from our little bout just now. As many as I could. For you it is interesting that your trade deal with Sweden starts at something like 50 metal - 300 energy traded for some 70 supplies from Sweden and only at a relationship of +51. Then somehow it get's to 100 energy for 50 supps ect ect ect, and still at only +51 relation. How exactly does japan suck over 40 rares, 50 steel, 40 power out of Siam when at most Siam makes only 15 max of each resource a day? August 1st 1939. Japan is not at war with anyone, they're entire navy is based in Dalian, and the Japanese army is stationed in China. When loaded it clearly shows that there is no supply convoy running to the province were they are stationed. When i played the save a bit and set up a supply convoy to that province large enough to sustain those troops for a total of 24 hours, Japans supply production goes into the red. Bottom line Kosta's, there is absolutely no way you and your team could have maintained your setup and kept your gearing bonuses ect ect if you were paying for all your supplies. For the record I am referring to pre-war not during war when your BS 7.3 rule comes into play. When I have the time, I will sit down and check all the chat logs ect ect. But I suppose that wouldn't do any good would it, I don't speak Greek. So to summarize all that. Me and the Aussie group and I dare say most of the Paradox community are done with you. Pull ya head in and get a life. SE.

 

[unmerged(35801)]

BTW....the name is Geofactor!......i have discussed this with you privatly kostasl....and i have no ill feelings towards you group!........however the complaints that i made in the game that you posted still stand in my mind!....and i will still consider them to be exploits......which is in contridiction of rule 7.1

 

[Majorball]

Giving Militia to Canada while playing the Axis...jeez that is dodgy. Why would the Axis do that??? Just on that alone is enough for me to say you guys are dodgy!!

 

[Majorball]

Yes that save was made in the very last session just before we walked out Kosta's, and IIRC that conversation, you acctually told us to make a save and check it. Wether you meant then and there I don't know for sure as you never specified. But I find it very interesting that every time we said save because it was getting late you and your team mates always said 2 more days, just 2 more days. IIRC that happened several times, why? Perhaps Japan needed to set up certain supply convoys to China maybe. Perhaps EXP'd forces needed to be taken back from axis minors. I checked Italy's, Germanies and Japans saves from our little bout just now. As many as I could. For you it is interesting that your trade deal with Sweden starts at something like 50 metal - 300 energy traded for some 70 supplies from Sweden and only at a relationship of +51. Then somehow it get's to 100 energy for 50 supps ect ect ect, and still at only +51 relation. How exactly does japan suck over 40 rares, 50 steel, 40 power out of Siam when at most Siam makes only 15 max of each resource a day? August 1st 1939. Japan is not at war with anyone, they're entire navy is based in Dalian, and the Japanese army is stationed in China. When loaded it clearly shows that there is no supply convoy running to the province were they are stationed. When i played the save a bit and set up a supply convoy to that province large enough to sustain those troops for a total of 24 hours, Japans supply production goes into the red. Bottom line Kosta's, there is absolutely no way you and your team could have maintained your setup and kept your gearing bonuses ect ect if you were paying for all your supplies. For the record I am referring to pre-war not during war when your BS 7.3 rule comes into play. When I have the time, I will sit down and check all the chat logs ect ect. But I suppose that wouldn't do any good would it, I don't speak Greek. So to summarize all that. Me and the Aussie group and I dare say most of the Paradox community are done with you. Pull ya head in and get a life. SE.

Stalin you cant really complain you tend to play with open sort of trade deals pre war or during. My whole argument was that someone would exploit it to build a massive German army prior to war in 1939. I am impressed at how these guys have done this and it just reinforces what I have been trying to tell you guys!!

 

[unmerged(59421)]

Stalin you cant really complain you tend to play with open sort of trade deals pre war or during. My whole argument was that someone would exploit it to build a massive German army prior to war in 1939. I am impressed at how these guys have done this and it just reinforces what I have been trying to tell you guys!!

Perhaps Major. But the catch is that these guys are acctually breaking they're own rules which they swear black and blue they are not breaching in any manner or form. The somewhat questionable trade deals between Germany and Sweden/Japan and Siam are but a small part of this. The main concern here is that they're rules state bluntly 7.1. No cheating or exploiting of any kind. 7.3. Every nation must supply they're own units in full during peace time. Mind you it never says anywhere that you are entitled to supply exploit your arse off when at war, but that is a touchy subject for them so we won't go into that now. The save I looked at bluntly shows that Japan is NOT at war, and has all it's armed forces stationed in it's puppets. I as a person who plays Japan quite frequently knows quite well how much IC Japan can save by stationing all they're armed forces in they're puppets. Not to mention that there is probabally a total space of 3 months from june 1937 to march 41 when we walked out of the game where Japan was not at war. So not only were they saving IC by not having to supply there forces, they and all they're puppets were exploiting war IC also. A failed attempt by Japan to dow Holland in 1939 in order to put them in an eternal war which they could not end, sore Free France DOW Japan because they GOI'd Holland. The Spartans were quick to react to this and quickly made a save. They then edited in peace between Japan, the allies and Holland. As a constellation, Japan then dow'd Siam immediately after the rehost. Round it all up, one big dodgy sideshow. SE.

 

[mike8472]

An editing saves or supply exploiting issue.
Except of doubting our honesty, you doubt our HOI skills, too. Place your bets gentlemen. I can make it again and again, every single time i play as Germany. Probably the easiest money i will ever get. So, waiting for your bets.
But before doing this, i friendly advice you to load all saves you got, and run some days or even months as Germany. How does it feel, eh ? Perhaps, you are wrong ?
To be precise : Germany by February 1, 1940, had 489/317 ICs, 33 level 3 Armour all brigaded, 127 infantries most brigaded and 45 interceptors.
If Stalins_Elite repeats it is virtually impossible, i expect him to say how much money he bets on this.

Not to stick up for these guys but as the most experienced German player in the aussie group. It is easy enough to get the forces that Kostas say hes has by this date.

In our current Aussie games I have similar forces along with a large navy and in previous games larger forces then stated here. 489 IC is also easily possible by doing 2 years of IC and with conquests of Poland/France/Low countries and so on your IC will be around this level with right ministers. If you build 3 years of IC it is likly to be closer 550IC.

So the forces Kostas has built are perfectly normal for a good German player.

As for the trades pre-war well ive done it myself had large numbers of trades with smaller countries. some times denmark pumps out large amounts of supplies or bulgaria and so on. You can work the trades to get large amounts of supplies even at 50+ relations. In most games im able to keep Germanies supply cost at 0 or close to it with out any help from other human players.

I do agree how ever that giving large amounts of units to minor countries even during war time is an exploit as expeditionary forces. Unless there is a legit military reason for doing so other then to save supplies is an exploit.

Now by giving large amounts of units during war as expeditionary will save Germany far more then 115 supplies a day. With a large army it is more likely Germany supply costs are around 70 IC a day and closer to the Russian war around 100 IC. So if by doing these expidtionary forces your supply costs are 0 then that is a huge advanatage.

In our current games with Italy giving Germany up to 200 supplies a day during war time, Germanies Supply cost is still around the 60-70 mark with good trades as well, when Italy reduces Germanies supply costs goes to around 100 IC a day. This supply cost is for a force of around 60-70 Panzers, 130+ planes, 170 infantry and around 50-60 ships add another 80 odd minor forces to protect the west.

For the trades pre-war the allies actualy have the greatest advanatage due to there huge amounts they can trade off. It is open for all sides to trade so thats is fair for all, no problems there.

No problems with the units built, a good Germany can always do that.

Expeditionary forces to minor AI countries even at war. Big exploit in my opinion. There is no need for it. If I did that in our current games I would be unstopable, there would be nothing the allies could do to beat Germany.

Using this rule in my opinion makes the Axis unbeatable. Pay your own supply costs. Germany should also pay for the costs of all units in its lands as they get the benifit from it by being able to use there troops for the Russian front while lesser forces protect say France.

So in my opinion Kostas with that rule being able to exp when at war is a huge exploit and makes Germany to powerful. You should never lose a game doing that. How does that make the game fun or challenging.

My sugestion is you get rid of it and pay all the supply costs your self with maybe your human axis allies giving you some supplies.

 

[Majorball]

Too many shifty things all round if you ask me..Stick to the real Aussie group Stalin. At least our shifty things are not to this scale hahaha

 

[unmerged(50486)]

Phoney War,

Supply Exploiting,

And now as we also know looking at Saves.

All that CRAP you have written here Kostas is like 3 months too late buddy. Your a Phoney and so is Knupp, go play your exploited game somewhere else.

Its funny that you open this whole thing with the crap about editing shit in, when no one has ever accused you of Editing shit in. Pretty pathetic.

Thanks for making me laugh Kostas at your great big detailed posts.

Even so, Spartans did not do this for supply saving purposes and did not do this to the scale that Aussies accused us

.

HAHAHAHH :rofl: Yeah allright mate, whatever you keep telling yourself that.

What a joke. Such a funny man Kostas :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

 

[mike8472]

The phoney war on top of the supply exploits is very gamey.

The only wars Japan should be allowed to do is with China. All nations should be annexed when possible. IE not annexing Sinkiang after a reasonable time. Although it can take along time due to terrain and often all Jap unit being SR out of China unpon the China surrender events.

But to go off and DOW striaght after fixing edits for china war is simply bad play and exploiting the game.

I now understand why so many people consider the spartans cheats.

I would suggest yous amend your rules to make sure all nations pay there supply cost when at war or not. Also no phoney wars or allowing Japan edless wars, it stops at China. In my opinion allowing Japan to take Siam pre-war with the allies is also to much.

 

[unmerged(16810)]

o ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

________

 

[mike8472]

Ive been informed that Germany in this game had 500IC before any conquests in 1939. If this is the case then yes it is impossible and some one has cheated.

Only via 3 years of IC builds plus conquest could you get this, and there is no way you can have that large a army/airforce when doing 3 years of IC builds.

 

[unmerged(50486)]

**To be precise : Germany by February 1, 1940, had 489/317 ICs, 33 level 3 Armour all brigaded, 127 infantries most brigaded and 45 interceptors. **

** Let's also add the fact that in our last save March 8, 1941, Germany had 633 ICs and IF they got ALL EXP FORCE returned, supply needs would be STILL 0 (zero)**

(Not also to mention Italy also had a massive IC Base, id like to know how a 633IC Germany manages to trade away resources to keep his supply demand at 0ic whilst still fullying resourcing his Industries, either way im not getting into that discussion at it is quiet clear and you yourself openly admit to Expeditioning units) All comes back to that rule 7.1

So from Feb 1940 @ 489IC
TO March 1941 @ 633IC

Just to simplfy for you Kostas. We left because you guys are Rampantly exploiting, you cant just say o well we decent players we edit out some supplies and thatll fix it.

Your rules your game, I personally dont want to play against you guys you are just too good a players for me... Maybe that so called Aussie "A" Team would like to play you, i hear they aren't as "Loud and arrogant as i am"

Anyway im not wasting more air on you. Hopefully a Mod locks this thread before i say what i really think.