Split Ownership of Planets?

[j4freeman]

We know that each planet will be divided into various tiles for purposes as yet unknown, but will we be able to divide a given planet between numerous factions?

In addition to some interesting diplomacy that could arise over rights to settle a given planet, I think a starting scenario in which you've got Earth split between America, Russia, China, the EU, and so forth would be a pretty fascinating thing to try out.

 

[Quaade]

might be difficult to pull off, since how would borders be shown. Perhaps your species should consist of different factions that inhabits planets like nations or corporations... But your idea could have some great possibilites to gameplay, like having two species make colonies on a planet and having a crisis over it, selling a small part of your planet as a colony, forcing your species on another planet to make a colony and having a crisis... perhaps even claim your protect the minority which could end in a war if the issue isn´t handled or the other specie doesn´t back off.

 

[Daltesh]

Don't think of stars like provinces, think of them like states or duchies. I believe they said that there won't be "empty" star systems, and chances are many will have multiple planets. A thousand star systems may well wind up with more planets than EU4 or HoI have provinces, and from the sounds of it each one of the planets will be detailed and computed in far more depth than EU or HoI goes to. 2000 or more stars could well slow the game down so much that days progress in real time, for all we know.

 

[echo2361]

While I'd love to see multi-faction planets be an option, I imagine that would be difficult to pull off. As it is, I'm hoping we'll at least see different empire's able to claim different planets in the same star system, but even that I'm worried we won't see given the conflicting borders we'd see on the map. A gamer can dream though

 

[Cipher3]

The multi-empire alpha screenshot showed certain tiny areas where the (strangely fluid-looking, almost arbitrary-seeming) empire borders overlapped, including across at least one system. 's all I know.

 

[FelixG]

Well they mentioned that the game would have the claims system (I am not a fan of it myself) so it seems like multi faction planets would lend itself to the claims system. "I have a claim on this planet because my faction represents 53% of the population!"

 

[Vedinu]

I also want to see the possibility to put up a colony on a civilized non-spacefaring planet, if there is free space.

 

[SIEGE-109]

What about your POPs inside foreign regions? Whose citizens would they be?

 

[Runetrantor]

Multi faction planets would be quite a first, the idea of a star system sharing between several factions is already kind of rare. (and wonky, ends up with someone colonizing Mars on my face because I focused on farther out, better planets (And then they getting angry because I am 'intruding on their systems' >_>)

But since Stellaris will have populations in a similar way to Vicky, maybe? Like, if I conquer a planet, the population may still be there if I didnt glass them. Then I would have to either exile them/murder them or hope to integrate them to like my empire's philosophy lest they try to flip the planet to my enemy.

 

[Quaade]

While I'd love to see multi-faction planets be an option, I imagine that would be difficult to pull off. As it is, I'm hoping we'll at least see different empire's able to claim different planets in the same star system, but even that I'm worried we won't see given the conflicting borders we'd see on the map. A gamer can dream though

Have the same issue with borders, but perhaps having the border mix showing that this is a tension area, where you´d have to zoom in to get a more detailed look on the area. With the claim system, it would be a nice addition to use the "CB" protect minority, when the majority enacts rule on the planet that restrict that specie.

Multi faction planets would be quite a first, the idea of a star system sharing between several factions is already kind of rare. (and wonky, ends up with someone colonizing Mars on my face because I focused on farther out, better planets (And then they getting angry because I am 'intruding on their systems' >_>)

But since Stellaris will have populations in a similar way to Vicky, maybe? Like, if I conquer a planet, the population may still be there if I didnt glass them. Then I would have to either exile them/murder them or hope to integrate them to like my empire's philosophy lest they try to flip the planet to my enemy.

Don´t the game have borders? then borders would still have mars within, and while it´s not claimed it would be recoignized by the system as not intruding... just guessing

 

[FelixG]

The boarders are already somewhat represented in the screenshots we have been shown which is cool!

Imagine if that overlap was caused by multi-faction planets/systems being shared between the Themlar Union and the Kingdom of Yondarim. It would cause the boarders to overlap and change colors a bit to show the tension spots and who has more influence there, if the Themlar Union had more influence the blue would be more dominant, but if the Kingdom of Yondarim had more influence red would be more dominant.

 

[Runetrantor]

The games I have seen this happen do give you borders around planets you own, but they dont enforce a colonization block to other empires.

Like in GalCiv, each race starts in a star system with their homeworld, and a second, very useless planet (Which with terraformation gets pretty good), but due to how low quality it is, you focus on grabbing the good planets around, and sometimes the AI, not finding any good enough planet, moves towards this second planet, making a colony on your face.
In GalCiv it's not an issue since culture flipping a planet is a thing, and a fledging colony cant compete with a homeworld on that, so I actually always let the AI colonize it, so I get a free planet.

I hope culture flipping or something like that is in Stellaris, it's a cool way to gain planets without war, and sort of helps enforce more concise borders, since any planet in the middle of other empire is likely to flip.

EDIT: Oh, new comment as I posted.
Yeah, that seems like shared systems, but planets? That's rather more complex imo.
I wonder about those borders though, not sure how to interpret them, like, which empire has the stronger hold on the system?
The borders seem to me like they are like GalCiv's in that they show culture spread too.
Notice there's a system just behind the 'O' of the Themlar Union that is JUST by the edge of the red empire's border but lacks the overlap near it, meaning it's only colonized by the Kingdom, yet it cannot exert culture pressure that well, so the border is just by it.
Whereas the borders between the Kingdom and the League are clean. (Though they too have a bit of overlap, despite no planets anywhere near...)

 

[Quaade]

I would think it´s a great system, having this border-tension-crisis system in order to gain a cause of war, have late-game troubles, and really... it makes more sense that such tensions would rise or not.

the aforementioned reference to systems as duchies, might work, but then who get the right first. The one who sat foot on first planet or the one who get over 50% first of planets. But the system could work when someone tries or already have set up a colony in a system you own/claim as cause of war. Although I hope that this game will portray skirmishes that may or may not end in full-blown wars.

Imagine a specie setting up a colony in your system, then you´d try to blockade it to stop it´s expansion (and starve out the colonist) instead of just declaring war. The opponent can then decide to keep pushing hoping a few transport gets through. Perhaps decide to sent a military escort to lift the blockade, might choose to send civilians through that you could choose to send back and if they tries to push through you must decide to destroy them or let them pass. In the case of civilians this might cause some uproar in galactic community where you´d have to defend your actions and rights to this planet for the loss of civilians.

if military escort are sent they may battle it out if choosen, but not end in a war but can be announced. So that border skirmishes not necessesarily means alliances being called upon, but if you are the weaker party you might want to see it as a declaration and call them in by naming it a war. This could be used on several occassion like, when a dreadnought are flying at your borders, you´d sent out military to ensure it doesn´t cross, or let them pass hoping you are not it´s target, could end in a skirmish when it´s not leaving leading to either no one does anything about it and eat up their losses or someone using it as an excuse to war, perhaps for reparations.

The ability to coexist should be able then, by splitting the system, a right to coexist should be agreed upon where you divide the system. One has the right to the system, but you agree that vulcanic planets that you cannot inhabit can be used without penalty to your ally for perhaps a portion of resources, research cooperation or rights to coexist in another system where you could colonize earth-like planets that are uninhabited.

 

[Panadell]

Im looking forward to Stellaris and hopefully all the new diplomatic options people have been suggesting.

Shared ownership between the largest factions on earth could be in a starting/tutorial scenario but from what ive read we wont have earth ingame? So more likely if we see this, that it will be with different spacefaring races or the situation on pre-spacefaring worlds that we visit.

In the colonization era, like Quaade said, they could use a Victoria 2 similar crisis system on this example with multiple races. Either with multiple factions colonizing the same planet, or if they colonize in the same system where it might escalate or not escalate if you are able to reduce tensions.

The option ive been hoping they have in Stellaris is an option to split ownership of a spacestation, planets, systems and other(like rotating ownership of federation fleets, maybe we can see ownership of colonies/spacestation/mines rotate ) so i like this thread.

Perhaps shared systems can open up diplomatic options where you can sign special treaties with other factions for some big buildingprojects to improve your relationship with one or more factions and get other bonuses like trade and research or the option to declare limited system/colony wars. Maybe give people new options for systems where we can set special rules on shared systems (expanding options for cooperative play/federations).

Sharing a system/planet could give new traits to both races or cause them to start sharing traits, possibly ending in a new faction with people from both races.

Maybe require multiple factions to build a building in the same system to open up a new diplomatic or building option.

Maybe you suggest a new project to a friendly faction where you colonize a planet together and share the benefits. It could be a volcanic planet that have something unique where you lack the technology to colonize/mine but your ally dont. Or a spacestation.

You can have many different events or stories be triggered from shared interaction in systems/planets.The example Quaade gave where you try to strangle a colony before it becomes a province could be text based events escalating a crisis before it turns into a war. I hope we will see shared colonies in some way because it could add so much to the game

 

[Quaade]

Totally agree that the shared system should have advantages/disadvantages and special events, so that playing one way is not overpowered and the "only" choice. So having special diplomatic treaties to systems that coexist and having crisis evolve either species wide or planetside to show how the two species interact. Also how you should juggle around if your specie "accuse" the other of bordercrossing, slaughter of inhabitants, stealing technology.

Perhaps treaties of coexistence should be a stage before galactic federations, where you could start sharing a few assets like Panadell mentioned by building larger monuments/spacestations/fleets. Could be a useful way of getting rid of vulcanic planets you cannot inhabit by letting your neighbour and ally colonize, building a joint research facility. This goes a way into another thread i responded to, by having each species have unique technology but having them mix to a lesser version of them both that might be better that something you have. This would bring a meaningful way of trying to keep the peace but should also be aquired through force, yet with a greater amount of unrest, crisis and at a slower pace since enslaved scientist usually doesn´t work that well.

Love the idea of having some evolution in place, both with war and diplomacy so it´s not just click and go to war (which should of course be an option) but make first contact, skirmish battles, negotiating treaties, creating federation slowly.

 

[Runetrantor]

The idea of a 'prologue' type of early game sounds cool, and rarely used, at best it's the 'pre warp' that MoO had.

Something akin to Spore's civ stage, where your planet is modern, but still not united, and you have to work to unite it, or expand into space and try to subjugate the other countries/factions within your empire to join up.
Sounds more fun than the rather artificial 'everyone suddenly discovered warp drive the same day' game start other games have.

 

[Spartanlemur]

Well they mentioned that the game would have the claims system (I am not a fan of it myself) so it seems like multi faction planets would lend itself to the claims system. "I have a claim on this planet because my faction represents 53% of the population!"

Well to be fair, most space IPs either don't show much diplomacy and interspecies relations, or they show a plot in which some evil species invades without a casus belli, because they don't care for the consequences.

If aliens really did exist, in such a way that they could colonise the galaxy, then some sort of intergalactic code of war would arise, whereby attempts at maintaining the balance of power are maintained between competing interests. This isn't really a human thing, as much as it is a universal principle.

And thus, casus bellis are important for all empires which care for building relations with other factions.

 

[Runetrantor]

CBs are logical in human minds, but if my people is super warmonger, and love war to the point we deify it, I kind of doubt they would be objecting the wars with whoever is on their way. (You could, however, construct it as these races having blanket CBs like the Holy War in EU4 against everyone that's not your religion. And between aliens, doubt anyone will share such notions)

 

[Quaade]

Your species might, which would lead to less unrest at war or declare... but the galactic society would think different at aggressions and might react accordingly

 

[Runetrantor]

That would be infamy or aggressive expansion, yes, but internally, I doubt the Drengin, or some super hostile race will get '-2 stability for no CB'.
More likely they would be like 'A reason for war? What a quaint notion these humans have!'