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I really appreciate paradox doing this. I started a game and a few balance things plus the early industry zone thing means it's a little too raw for me right now but I cannot wait for it to be a little more ready. I hope everyone else is enjoying it!
you know, I am enjoying it. Can't go for long without messing something up terribly. but it gets the job done. UI problems do mean I struggle to play a long time. I'm being told way to often that I have unemployment. In fact, brand new colonies without unemployment have it on the outliner, which just drives me insane.

Still, its fun however, I've noticed that going beyond year 30 or 40 seems impossible unless you min-max to the extreme. Right now I'm doing lithoid and have a couple unity-based civics so I don't have to go to hard on unity at the beginning, half hoping to see how far I go before ether a death spiral or the weirdly long demotion timer gets me.
 
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i know it beta so planetary menu look bad becuse big numbers, a lot of jobs from one place ect... it fine for now... but god damm how i can test stuff if zones dont say what they give! we dont need lore or anything special just give me damm numbers and types of jobs given by zones !


alos pop work force... switch betwen jobs hard... like isnted of spliting they just go max to one and thme to another few time in ingame month...
 
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Still, its fun however, I've noticed that going beyond year 30 or 40 seems impossible unless you min-max to the extreme.
Its more like 40 or 50 years I think for 'normal' empires. But I'm pretty stable with this more optimized build. Sadly, almost no alloy production so I have to buy a lot. Not the worst that can happen, but having to build multiple factories to keep up with my utopia living standards makes sense. Still, hovering around 0 consumer goods at 30 years in.

On the one hand I like the slower game pacing, on the other, I have to wonder if the people who prefer rushing to the end game are being frustrated by it. And then the question if the slower pacing is intended pops up.

I've noticed several focuses that don't work 'find alien life' is a big one. I also want to know why development focuses seem to hold all the diplomatic ones, If I'm focused on development, I'd like production targets instead please. Maybe unity as well. But all I have is diplomatic focuses.
 
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you know, I am enjoying it. Can't go for long without messing something up terribly. but it gets the job done. UI problems do mean I struggle to play a long time. I'm being told way to often that I have unemployment. In fact, brand new colonies without unemployment have it on the outliner, which just drives me insane.

Still, its fun however, I've noticed that going beyond year 30 or 40 seems impossible unless you min-max to the extreme. Right now I'm doing lithoid and have a couple unity-based civics so I don't have to go to hard on unity at the beginning, half hoping to see how far I go before ether a death spiral or the weirdly long demotion timer gets me.

I’ve managed to play a game to 2300 so far without min maxing. I.e I’m not building stuff the moment I can, toggling jobs, or anything like that. But it has been a long slow grind.

It took ages before my economy stabilised. I had to make heavy use of the market and regularly dipped in and out of shortage situations. What ended up helping was getting the Dyson swarm and Arc furnace tech at roughly the same time. Saving the unity for both was hard but once I got two online it was the beginning of the end for my eco struggles as more workers could go to unity and consumer goods jobs.

I’m still way behind where I would be in a normal game. I’ve not even broke 1k science and only just finished my third tradition. The lack of migration means my colonies have developed extremely slowly while my older worlds languish in huge unemployment problems. I just got the void worm frenzy crisis so I’m possibly dead since my military is still quite weak. Though that’s as much a consequence of the AI posing no thread as it is the eco problems.
 
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I don't really like that research zones give you 300 jobs while all other urban zones give you 100, it's very swingy when replacing zones (which leaves you with massive unemployment), adding a research zone, or even when just building a new city district since so many of your workers immediately promote to specialists.

I'd prefer if the researcher jobs were individually more powerful but you got less of them (e.g. 50/50/50 for 150 jobs total), and ideally all urban zones added the same number of jobs. 150 total jobs tidily divides into 2 jobs w/ 75 and 3 jobs w/ 50, or 120 total divides evenly into 2, 3, 4, 5, or even 6 different jobs.
 
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One suspicion I have is that since the pops are changing jobs so frequently, they're not demoting correctly because they're not personally spending enough time unemployed.
That's the implication on having a finer quantized pop count.

Instead of resetting the counter to zero once a pop group is fully employed, just have it decrease by one or have it decreased by the same amount it increases when the pop is unemloyed. i.e. have pop groups have a fading memory of how long they were recently unemployed. If I remember correctly victoria 3 does something similar by using wealth levels?
 
I'm feeling frustrated at the difficulty I'm having managing employment, it seems relatively random that I'll have a few dozen unemployed Elites while desperately trying to concentrate workers into laborer jobs. And despite having placed laborers as priority it fills that job last so I'm overflowing with minerals and unemployed pops but my economy is crashing because I can't keep up cgs.

The early industrial district seems like a sandtrap honestly, especially since I can't replace it with something more useful. Refinery jobs almost look appealing at first since they sell well on the market but when I'm struggling to stock up on the basics, I'd rather have an actual trade district than pay 300 minerals for a job that'll make motes that will provide me no other value just to counter a 50% penalty to researchers
 
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I'm feeling frustrated at the difficulty I'm having managing employment, it seems relatively random that I'll have a few dozen unemployed Elites while desperately trying to concentrate workers into laborer jobs. And despite having placed laborers as priority it fills that job last so I'm overflowing with minerals and unemployed pops but my economy is crashing because I can't keep up cgs.

The early industrial district seems like a sandtrap honestly, especially since I can't replace it with something more useful. Refinery jobs almost look appealing at first since they sell well on the market but when I'm struggling to stock up on the basics, I'd rather have an actual trade district than pay 300 minerals for a job that'll make motes that will provide me no other value just to counter a 50% penalty to researchers
I only just realized that the buildings you add to the Early Industrial zone add modifiers (and jobs) to the districts and expanding districts is more important than it used to be
 
I still don't think an amenities district being the only real source of amenities is the way to go. Give democracies a real handy cap since they must dedicate an amenity district on every planet, and they already absolutely eat consumer goods like a ravenous zulcor.
 
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The early industrial district seems like a sandtrap honestly, especially since I can't replace it with something more useful.

You can now actually. If you klick on oyur City district you will see your Zones listed nd richt next to "Zone 1 Details" there is a replace button. If you have no buildings in the Zone you can replace it.

You should however only do so after you colonized at leat one or two other planets since the early industrial zone is actually giving you science, consumergoods, amenitys and unity ( -jobs ). and without it you will may get into trouble.

So you need at least one more colony to compensate for unity. research you can compensate with a researchlab for the time being.
 
I only just realized that the buildings you add to the Early Industrial zone add modifiers (and jobs) to the districts and expanding districts is more important than it used to be
I still feel like I'm lurching from economic crisis to economic crisis. I've got thousands of unemployed specialists after 10 years and my unity, cgs, stability, and crime are spiking because I can't afford to resettle them to either of my other colonies because the unemplyment is so high on my capitol that I'm producing negative research while everyone is starving. I don't understand this even a little bit.
 
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It is a beta. I really appreciate what the changing stellaris team did over the last ~10 years. And I play Stellaris since 2016.
I know software testing from work. I know you have written requierments to rework the planetary and economic system. And you conveyed them through the dev diaries.

But however you turned up with the idea of the zones, this leads to a very unsattisfying game experience. It is inflexible, it is limiting choice for no good reason.
I also find this system not intuitive.
In 3.14 it was intuitive you need to grow the ressource output of x so I build a building to create a job and grow the population to fill said job(or reprioritize), which increases the output of x.

I read a bit more and I removed the "early Industry Zone" to early. :rolleyes:
I just hate it. It is overspecialising for me in an unnecessary restricting way.

If you keep this system I will seek out all mods alleviating the restrictions of zones.
 
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OK please please please add a zone that does both alloys and cgs using 2/3rds of ur capitals zones for them means u have no choice in what to build at the start of the game limiting player options and builds.

It honestly reminds me a lot of the old system u had where the cgs and alloy building dictated what the industry district produced and u removed that because fans did not like the feature. Don't make the same mistake again

Isn't it supposed to be "early industry zone" or something like that? The one with the description "it is kinda bad"?
 
I'm feeling frustrated at the difficulty I'm having managing employment, it seems relatively random that I'll have a few dozen unemployed Elites while desperately trying to concentrate workers into laborer jobs. And despite having placed laborers as priority it fills that job last so I'm overflowing with minerals and unemployed pops but my economy is crashing because I can't keep up cgs.

The early industrial district seems like a sandtrap honestly, especially since I can't replace it with something more useful. Refinery jobs almost look appealing at first since they sell well on the market but when I'm struggling to stock up on the basics, I'd rather have an actual trade district than pay 300 minerals for a job that'll make motes that will provide me no other value just to counter a 50% penalty to researchers
As others have pointed out you can in fact replace the early industrial zone.

Those unemployed elites are coming from pop growth, and it is kind of annoying to have to wait for them to demote. There seems to be something with pop demotion, making it really long. This will eventually cause problems if you don't handle it.
I still feel like I'm lurching from economic crisis to economic crisis. I've got thousands of unemployed specialists after 10 years and my unity, cgs, stability, and crime are spiking because I can't afford to resettle them to either of my other colonies because the unemplyment is so high on my capitol that I'm producing negative research while everyone is starving. I don't understand this even a little bit.
Amenity problems can be staved off with a luxury apartments Buildng in the main zone. You kind of have to hit that before the crime becomes a problem for it to work, otherwise you need the zone. And yes, its terrible that the only amenity jobs come from a zone. That's the biggest complaint I have with the system right now.
But however you turned up with the idea of the zones, this leads to a very unsattisfying game experience. It is inflexible, it is limiting choice for no good reason.
I also find this system not intuitive.
In 3.14 it was intuitive you need to grow the ressource output of x so I build a building to create a job and grow the population to fill said job(or reprioritize), which increases the output of x.
I like the system--in theory--right now. If we get a way to make amenities without a zone, and some kind of mixed alloy and cg zone--even if its weak over all--other than early space age zone. Or maybe a balance pass on that zone so it doesn't feel like a necessary replace. Then I think it would be good.

I don't have a problem with intuitive. You want cg->factory zone Reasearch->research zone. You have those, build more cities. Of course, it could be better, and I definitely wish we had more ways of tweaking the zones via buildings. But hopefully that starts showing up in the next update.

I think the only odd part of the system is the 'build more cities' step when you need more resources. Also, I have research and cg being made on my capital, building more cities gets me more research, but not more consumer goods. Some kind of 'support industry' building that perhaps reduces cg production but also reduces upkeep of researchers, priests, or bureaucrats would be kind of cool.
 
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I think the only odd part of the system is the 'build more cities' step when you need more resources. Also, I have research and cg being made on my capital, building more cities gets me more research, but not more consumer goods. Some kind of 'support industry' building that perhaps reduces cg production but also reduces upkeep of researchers, priests, or bureaucrats would be kind of cool.

Yea but that is exactly kind of the problem. With the new System, other than hyper-specializing a planet to produce only one specialist-output you can't increase your recource-output on demand anymore.

Lets take your example. A planet with Factory and Researchzone.. you notice that you need more Consumergoods.. but upgrading the Housingdistrict also gives you 300 Researchslots and at least 200 from another job. Researcher use consumergoods for research so as you have pointed out.. your net-gain is either minimal or even a loss. On the other hand instead of loosing/promoting only 200 pops from worker to specialist, you promote 500 or more possibly resulting in a deficit of another rescource.

to circumvent this problem you either have to hyper-specialize 8 or more planets to only produce one rescource... ( without amenitys ) ; constantly micromanage your planets by restricting jobs BEFORE the city-expansion is finished ( to add up on the micromanaging of other things like science-events/ship-layouts/leaderskills ) or wait to have 500 or more unemployed pops below the leader-strate before you upgrade, which is, as i understood it how the team actually imagines it to be but.. lets face it.. having to amass 500 or more civilians ( who are also going to use consumergoods ) before you upgrade your production-facilitys ( some of wich may even move out ) isn't really intituive or fun.. and goes against the instinct of every braincell i have left.
 
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Maybe if they had more combined zones it'd work better?
E.G.
  • Industrial Zone - Consumer Goods + Alloys + Some Engineering
  • Military Zone - Alloys + Soldiers + Some Physics + Some Engineering
  • Cultural Zone - Unity + Amenaties + Some Trade + Some Social Science
  • Trade Zone - Trade + Consumder Goods + Some Amenaties + Some Social Science
  • Research Zone - Physics + Society + Engineering
  • Residential Zone - Increased Civilian Output + Amenaties + Some Trade (upgrades expand options, e.g. Medical workers for pop growth, temples add priests, enphasis on education gives some research outputs etc.)
These would be by base, by the way; then some buildings would specialise the zone somewhat (so if you put alloy forges in your industrial zone, it would reduce the number of artisan jobs and increase the number of metalurgist jobs, but building both an alloy forge and civilian industries would keep it 50/50 with both jobs buffed).
 
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I guess one of my issues with the screen which has jobs on it is this, I really do not care how many pops are there. All I care about is what is being produced. For me it would be simpler to set jobs by percentage worked with locks stating this job is allocated first or the bar can only go so far before there are not pops to work. If there are insufficient pops/workforce then the slider simply cannot move. all unlocked sliders are linked so if one is taken to 100% with insufficient WF to keep the remaining sliders where they are then then decrease at the same rate.



The problem with the current screen is that I can see different types of pops working the same job but if they in the same classification, specialist or worker, I cannot actually decide who works what. Given that why show me what I cannot change.
 
Buildings seem off, all upgrades appear to have become independent buildings and this creates extreme bloat. Zones are also a UX nightmare in general. At minimum you shouldn't have to delete all buildings in a zone to remove it, instead any incompatible buildings should be destroyed.
 
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I think the thing that's stuck out the most so far is the lack of a sense of planetary progression.
In the previous version, the waypoints were fairly easy to see: A pop grows, it needs to do a thing. For it to do a thing, maybe build a building, build a district, whatever. Build the thing, that pop is now doing something. Yay! Progress.

The more granular system is a lot harder to 'know' whether if a decision is being made. I'm aware that resources are coming in but wowee is it hard to say what's happening where. I imagine that, since this new patch makes textual descriptions more important and that's currently not a focus, this will get better once that gets around.

Also:
It'd be nice if we could 'allocate' zones and their impact to city districts. Like, each zone can be allocated up to the maximum built city districts of the planet and have a more interesting distribution of jobs beyond going into the job menu and restricting them manually.

(And also please have the district build button be 'build' and not 'upgrade', since 'upgrading' has, for this game, been traditionally an up arrow meant for buildings and units)
 
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Buildings seem off, all upgrades appear to have become independent buildings and this creates extreme bloat. Zones are also a UX nightmare in general. At minimum you shouldn't have to delete all buildings in a zone to remove it, instead any incompatible buildings should be destroyed.

Well Buildings are less off but their concept has changed.. you are right they have become independent buildings it used to be that they just increased the buff/jobs they provided.. now they do different things like either increase the output, decrease the upkeep or fiddle with hte pop-amount.

i personally have no problem with those.. rescource-specific buildings as they are now since it forces us to decide ( or caluclate ) what "buff" we want for the rescource they belong to. Of course this opinion can still change over the course of the beta depending on what additional buildings we get or what changes to the system are made.