Duplicate Stellaris - Genetic Modification is 1-time only!

[LordofMayhem]

Description
Genetic Modification is 1-time only!

Game Version
Fornax v3.5.2 (27ef)

What version do you use?
Steam

What expansions do you have installed?


Do you have mods enabled?
No

Please explain your issue is in as much detail as possible.
So genetic modification (since the release of Toxoids and the accompanying update) is now a once-per-game option. You are only allowed to genetically alter your species once and then never again (apparently). This was confirmed with certainty to be not a mod issue. The tooltip given reminds me of what happens when you try to modify species with the psionic trait or similar traits. While those limitations are rather toxic and needlessly restrictive in and of themselves, these new restrictions on genetic modification seem too restrictive to be reasonable, and thus I am reporting them as a bug, as I do not believe the developers could possibly be this hateful towards genetic ascension. Rather I think that something has gone wrong with how the game reads species traits, or perhaps the "no fun allowed" restrictions on modifying psionic/cyber/brainslug pops are being applied to all pops after the first genetic modification instance. I don't know how to upload save files, but hopefully these screencaps will do.

Steps to reproduce the issue.
Research the appropriate techs and grab the needed perks to do at least partial genetic modification (Gene tailoring and the first genetic AP) proceed to create your first species template then modify your species to match that template. Next, create a new and different template. Once you've done that, attempt to modify your species into the new template. You will not be able to. All modification options will be greyed out and the red error tooltip will say "The current template cannot be applied to any available species" despite there being no reasons for this such as your species being psionic, cybernetic, or having the brain slug trait.

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[llamaTic]

Did you also add the Genetic Resequencing tech? You can't remove positive traits without it. I was able to edit my starting species to a new template, and back again, without any issues.

 

[Dr Pippy]

Sounds similar to what I reported here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...e-to-already-modded-pops-v3-5-2-27ef.1544239/

It used to be that you couldn't remove positive traits from templates without Genetic Resequencing, but you could remove them from pops by applying a different template. If this is an intentional change, it's not in the patch notes.

 

[llamaTic]

Sounds similar to what I reported here: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...e-to-already-modded-pops-v3-5-2-27ef.1544239/

It used to be that you couldn't remove positive traits from templates without Genetic Resequencing, but you could remove them from pops by applying a different template. If this is an intentional change, it's not in the patch notes.

That sounds like they messed up and finally fixed a long-standing bug, to me.

Creating a template shouldn't be the limiting factor, because that can be thought of more as the "goal" for your modifications. The actual conversion of pops to this template is where the modification takes place. I see no reason why you shouldn't be allowed to make all the templates that you want in planning for the future, but without proper research, expecting to be able to flip back and forth between templates seems unreasonable. There are certain things you just can't undo.

 

[Dr Pippy]

The problem is that if you can't do this, then you end up with 53412 different subspecies in the subspecies menu by the endgame and no way to reduce this. This is certainly ugly from a UI perspective, and presumably comes with at least a small performance cost as well. There are also pretty logical in-game justifications for being able to roll back to previous templates, etc. (Surely you'd keep an archive of unmodded Blorg DNA in case something went wrong, wouldn't you?) Mostly, though, it just makes the game more annoying.

Regardless, if it was an intentional bug fix, that should be documented in the patch notes, and it doesn't appear to be.

 

[llamaTic]

The problem is that if you can't do this, then you end up with 53412 different subspecies in the subspecies menu by the endgame and no way to reduce this. This is certainly ugly from a UI perspective, and presumably comes with at least a small performance cost as well. There are also pretty logical in-game justifications for being able to roll back to previous templates, etc. (Surely you'd keep an archive of unmodded Blorg DNA in case something went wrong, wouldn't you?) Mostly, though, it just makes the game more annoying.

Regardless, if it was an intentional bug fix, that should be documented in the patch notes, and it doesn't appear to be.

It isn't about keeping some DNA around incase something goes wrong. It is about not knowing how to make sure something doesn't go wrong. You aren't printing new pops, and your templates can even be considered as having served as your "backup", but you haven't advanced your technological expertise far enough to be able to undo the changes you've made. Having a DNA backup does you no good if changing a pop back from "Strong" to "Weak" causes all of their muscles to turn to mush, or removing the "Intelligent" trait that you added, causes their neurons to cease firing, entirely. That is where the Genetic Resequencing tech you get from the Genetic Ascension Path comes in. You have finally reached the point in your technological development that you accurately account for how these changes will affect the subject, and ensure a successful conversion.

Think of it like Genetic Jenga. You have found a way to add more and more blocks on top of the stack, but haven't figured out how to safely remove blocks near the bottom.

 

[Dr Pippy]

A reasonable argument, but one that I can't agree with. Resequencing allows you to remove beneficial traits that you started the game with; you're essentially undoing millions of years of evolutionary development. Swapping around traits that you've spliced on top of this long development—in your rather apt Jenga analogy, removing blocks near the top of the stack—should have a lower barrier. And in point of fact, it has had a lower barrier since the time that the ascension paths were first introduced.

Obviously the devs will follow their own judgment on this. But the point I keep making is that if a system that has worked one particular way for a very long time undergoes such a significant change, the patch notes should certainly say something about it!

 

[LordofMayhem]

A reasonable argument, but one that I can't agree with. Resequencing allows you to remove beneficial traits that you started the game with; you're essentially undoing millions of years of evolutionary development. Swapping around traits that you've spliced on top of this long development—in your rather apt Jenga analogy, removing blocks near the top of the stack—should have a lower barrier. And in point of fact, it has had a lower barrier since the time that the ascension paths were first introduced.

Obviously the devs will follow their own judgment on this. But the point I keep making is that if a system that has worked one particular way for a very long time undergoes such a significant change, the patch notes should certainly say something about it!

In agreement with this. Hopefully at least mods are made to rectify this, but it follows that being able to return to the base template and rebuild from there should be possible. At the very least it would be helpful to be able to selectively apply population controls to certain subspecies of your main species, since you are barred from doing that by default.

 

[NiedzwiedzzCyberLasu]

Hello!

Thank you for the report!

We are aware of the issue, it has already been added to our bug database.