Duplicate Stellaris - Pop Ethics Shifting still does NOT works as supposed !!

[Droiyan7]

Description
Pop Ethics Shifting still does NOT works as supposed !!

Game Version
2.8.1

What version do you use?
Steam

What expansions do you have installed?
(DID NOT ANSWER QUESTION)

Do you have mods enabled?
No

Please explain your issue is in as much detail as possible.

Posts and MOD pointing the problem.

1. Ethics attraction does not appear to work... -

https://www.reddit.com/r/Stellaris/comments/bzar75

2. Real Pop Ethics Shifting -

Steam Workshop::Real Pop Ethics Shifting (Discontinued)

steamcommunity.com

3. https://gall.dcinside.com/mgallery/board/view/?id=stellaris&no=27610 (Korean analysis post
See it with Google Translate.

(패독병신들이 본래 의도했던)팝 윤리관 변화의 Mtth를.araboja - 스텔라리스 마이너 갤러리

일딴 패독 병신들은 지들이 만들어놓은 겜엔진 언어 구조도 모르는 빡대가리 새끼들임(참고글https://gall.dcinside.com/mgallery/board/view/?id=stellaris&no=27538

translate.google.com

The root of the problem:
POP_ETHOS_DIVERGENCE_RATE_MULT = 0.02
POP_CHANGE_FACTION_CHANCE = 0.02

designed to be 2% per year (MTTH about 35 years), but by the coding mistake (or the engine fault) those actually work as 0.02% (MTTH about 3446 years)

at 2.8.1 those are now 0.05 (designed to be 5% per year, MTTH about 15 years?). It is big buffed enough, only if the code actually works as intended!

In fact, Pop Ethics Shifting chance of 2.8.1 is 0.05% (MTTH about 1300~1400 years), who plays a game 1300 years?


And when I hear about what happened at 2.7, That's worse than any imagination.
It's a really bad design that you're trying to deal it with daily calculations, without solving the wrongly implemented probability itself.

It was so obvious from the beginning that it won't work because of the lag problem.


In fact, implementing a proper repair is very simple.

Just change POP_ETHOS_DIVERGENCE_RATE_MULT and POP_CHANGE_FACTION_CHANCE to 2.0 or 5.0, depending on whether the real intention is 2% or 5%

It's really incomprehensible that the problem persists for more than a year just because PDX don't make this simple fix.

Steps to reproduce the issue.
Edit Conformists (species trait) to increase Governing Ethics Attraction about +500%~+5000%. Play the game and see it does NOT work like +500%~+5000% at all!

Rollback Conformists, then edit POP_ETHOS_DIVERGENCE_RATE_MULT, POP_CHANGE_FACTION_CHANCE to 2.0~5.0. Play the game and see those work as designed to be.

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(DID NOT ANSWER QUESTION)

 

[Droiyan7]

After some thinking, I think the best setting is


POP_ETHOS_DIVERGENCE_RATE_MULT = 5.0 # Chance of a pop evaluating its ethics every year
POP_CHANGE_FACTION_CHANCE = 1.0 # Once every month a pop has X chance to change faction but only if the pop wants to


Reason: POP_CHANGE_FACTION_CHANCE is monthly checking while POP_ETHOS_DIVERGENCE_RATE_MULT is yearly.
So, POP_CHANGE_FACTION_CHANCE should be lower than POP_ETHOS_DIVERGENCE_RATE_MULT, while overall chance is still higher.

Thus, 1/4~1/8 of POP_ETHOS_DIVERGENCE_RATE_MULT should be suitable. I picked 1/5.

 

[Arrnea]

I had a feeling something was fucky with ethics changing, but that's even worse than I thought.

I wonder how long that has been broken...

 

[Kryndude]

PDX pls fix this.

 

[Feedback_Drone [Qloc]]

Greetings.

Thank you for the report.

We are aware of the issue, it has already been added to our bug database.

 

[MathyM]

I don't mean to be pushy, but this is clearly a one-line fix. What's taking so long? Factions are an important aspect of any non-Gestalt empire, and this is broken to a point where suppression/promotion hardly makes ANY difference for years and years on end.

 

[Gui10]

I don't mean to be pushy, but this is clearly a one-line fix. What's taking so long? Factions are an important aspect of any non-Gestalt empire, and this is broken to a point where suppression/promotion hardly makes ANY difference for years and years on end.

Perhaps they are worried about performance. Increasing the frequency of evaluation might be problematic in highly populated galaxies.

 

[MathyM]

Perhaps they are worried about performance. Increasing the frequency of evaluation might be problematic in highly populated galaxies.

The frequency of evaluation is already correct. The bug is that the chance of a shift happening: 0.02% instead of 2%. Please read the thread, skimming through replies is not ideal.

 

[Gui10]

The frequency of evaluation is already correct. The bug is that the chance of a shift happening: 0.02% instead of 2%. Please read the thread, skimming through replies is not ideal.

By increasing pop_change_faction_chance and/or pop_ethis_divergence_rate_mult a hundred-fold, you increase the number of operations that need to be executed, due to an increase in the frequency of ethics evaluations.
Perhaps the impact of that would be negligible, but I don't know enough about the engine to tell.
(I did read the entire thread before commenting, but I do consider it good advice).

 

[MathyM]

By increasing pop_change_faction_chance and/or pop_ethis_divergence_rate_mult a hundred-fold, you increase the number of operations that need to be executed, due to an increase in the frequency of ethics evaluations.
Perhaps the impact of that would be negligible, but I don't know enough about the engine to tell.
(I did read the entire thread before commenting, but I do consider it good advice).

You'd be increasing a hundred-fold, yes, but it'd be on something that is already barely happening, and it's severely hindering an important game mechanic. And also, it's something that is designed to happen once per year, and also, it's a relatively simple weighed dice roll.

I don't think the decision to keep it as-is is related to performance. In fact, running a script mod to fix the value has no noticeable impact on performance. It's an oversight that is sadly too far down on Paradox's priority list, despite being about as quick of a fix as quick fixes can get.