Stellaris should avoid the "ancient all-powerful alien civ trope". Let us be the first wave!

[*Aqua*]

Seriously, does no one believe a million year old civilization would invent materials more lasting than steel and concrete?

Physical and chemicals laws dictate that everything* will decay if you give it enough time. There's no material which can last against erosion and corrosion for more than a few thousand years. Advanced civilizations can't change that.

* The only two exceptions are protons and electrons which _seem_ to be stable.

 

[Price21]

For the ancient all-powerful alien civ trope I would like this to be invoked in a random generator kind of way but can also be turned on and off before start up new game

I am 100% all for this, There should definitely be either an option to turn this On/Off or randomize whether there will be Ancient All-Powerful Alien Civ's or not.. It appeases both parties.

 

[Velorian]

Physical and chemicals laws dictate that everything* will decay if you give it enough time. There's no material which can last against erosion and corrosion for more than a few thousand years. Advanced civilizations can't change that.

* The only two exceptions are protons and electrons which _seem_ to be stable.

Right, except if it is maintained by nanites, as in tiny robots which repairs it as needed.

Also a few thousand years would not really be enough, materials decay at different speeds depending on how they are configured not all carbon takes the same time. For instance, if kept under reasonably normal temperature and pressure a diamond will last for millions of years before it turns into graphite as it is metastable. It won't change until it's built up enough energy, which can be fast at high temperatures or extremely slow at normal temperature.

I'm sure some advanced nano-constructions could achieve similar longevity.

 

[PG908]

Having an option to be a part of the first wave would be nice. Hide several paths in the game where you can advance to the point where you kill yourself and the other advanced civs disastrously. Restart as a random race ready to join the stars and discover bits of your old civ.

Nah. Too complicated.

Would be cool though.

That's a DLC I would buy.

 

[Bane5]

Though probably outside of the scope of the initial release, future updates/expansions could add multiple starting backgrounds.

For example:

1). The standard you are here but not the first, yet previous aliens seem to be extinct/fallen/gone.
2). You are the first wave.
3). The universe is already populated, but ruled by a peaceful (but accepting of bribes) galactic council.
4). The universe is already filled with large empires who colonized traditionally over millenia, but now FTL has just been discovered.
5). There is only a single intelligent species. You play as a corporation/nation all allied together under the guise of a single faction sharing the exact same homeworld. From a single location, a grand galactic empire will rise and then split and fracture into rebel groups/warlords later on.
6). Galaxy is empty. Several extra-galactic species invade.

and so forth

------

edit: The poster above who suggested that you be able to advance to type 3 status and then "accidentally wipe yourself out" and play as the next wave has a genius idea as well.

 

[13Foxtrot]

I think the real galaxy is much less interesting then Stellaris' galaxy.

Fermi's Paradox can't occur in Stellaris or the game would be boring.

 

[Krajzen]

I think the real galaxy is much less interesting then Stellaris' galaxy.

Fermi's Paradox can't occur in Stellaris or the game would be boring.

Tbh I hope Stellaris will allow on anything between 15 and 0 AI races, or 'random' button, or 'scale' - I would really like to discover the galaxy not knowing if there is any sentient life there. Ohh I discovered it! Wait, it's insane and genocidal and much stronger than me. Ohh I discovered it! Nah, those are just pre spaceflight races. But what if I uplifted them? Ohhh I discovered life! It is non sentient.

...and there are also endgame caraclysms.

 

[yerm]

Most civ games let you click off ancient ruin spawns. Most paradox games start with borders all or mostly pre-set. Even things like eu4 built around heavy colonization's time period have pre-determined borders in most of the world, unequal distributions that make some starts more difficult and variable, and games like ck2 and hoi don't have open unsettled land at all.

Options to just pre-settle the galaxy, options to simply turn off ancient aliens and leave their ruins and existence out (or replaced with more fledgling civs), these are good options to give the player. Unless the game is fundamentally mounted on a requirement to build off of past civs which cannot be circumvented, which is AWFUL if so, turning said ancient civs off should be neither difficult nor damning to the game. Maybe it slows it down. Maybe it leaves awkward gaps in places where they should have been. So what?

I understand the realism argument to saying you can't have a bunch of fledgling races all relatively equal with no precursor. If you want humans to be first on the scene, it doesn't make sense to have up to 31 other similarly-advanced aliens come on the scene at almost exactly the same time. There are ways around this - FTL technology involved some shift or rotation in the galaxy so it became available to every type 1 all at once, and the first races are just the ones who were ready when the FTL door opened. Maybe there aren't 32 races, there's millions of them, and only the N number starting races made it out.

The logic isn't hard - there logically MUST be a first. All we're doing is arguing that the first race is not relatively alone in doing so, and we want to play in that group. Or, even if we're not first, we want to click a game setting that just eliminates all traces of ancient aliens that came before and effectively leaves the starting races as first in practice, whether or not in lore.

 

[13Foxtrot]

Tbh I hope Stellaris will allow on anything between 15 and 0 AI races, or 'random' button, or 'scale' - I would really like to discover the galaxy not knowing if there is any sentient life there. Ohh I discovered it! Wait, it's insane and genocidal and much stronger than me. Ohh I discovered it! Nah, those are just pre spaceflight races. But what if I uplifted them? Ohhh I discovered life! It is non sentient.

...and there are also endgame caraclysms.

I agree on a sense of randomness as it will aid in replay-ability.

 

[Sebor13]

I am 100% all for this, There should definitely be either an option to turn this On/Off or randomize whether there will be Ancient All-Powerful Alien Civ's or not.. It appeases both parties.

I think if people don't want something in the game, they should just mod it out.

 

[Chief of Staff]

Extinct, ancient civilizations, if any, should provide compelling mysteries that you could explore and maybe solve via a chain of events. I've been reading about various ancient civilizations in world history that had disappeared or collapsed without explanation or little evidence to explain why with all sorts of theories being dished out by archaeologists. I feel that this would add to explorative aspect of the game.

Put it this way, exploration particularly of ancient civilizations that had been long gone is kind of like a detective mystery. Star Trek franchise had this detective mystery aspect for sci-fi television series in particular, especially in the Star Trek: The Next Generation (think Iconians) and I believe Star Trek Voyagers also had that aspect, though not sure if it ever encountered any extinct civilizations.

 

[Praetori]

We aren't a smart species.

Everyone knows we are here. We broadcast our terrible television and radio into space. We have been announcing our presence to the galaxy for the last 120 years. We are visible to any space faring civilisation as we emit huge amounts of detectable light pollution.

We are heavily flawed by our human traits which leads to our flawed understanding of the galaxy and our place in it. Why we haven't detected anyone or contacted anyone; is that anyone smarter than us keeps their heads down and anyone who knows about us; has watched the last few decades and decided we probably aren't worth contacting. This is no universe of the United Federation of Planets where aliens work together, hold hands and ensure peace in the Gamma quadrant. Best way to put it, should humans leave this planet; we'll be taking our modified take on the ecology and biology that arose on this planet. We will be competing with other species for resources.

We are at the stationary phase of bacterial growth. At the point we start to be able to do 'things', we might discover at that point that all the useful resources and galaxy is colonised. Those that have gone before might not be too understanding either.

Well 120 light-years is a petty little speck of distance in the Milky Way (our signals, if infinitely strong, could have reached some 150-200 other star-systems by now, out of a hundred billion to five hundred billion starsystems in our own galaxy alone) , not to mention our earliest broadcast were so measly that they probably couldn't even be discovered outside of the Solar-system without antenna-arrays the size of entire star-systems (the energy is dispersed by the distance squared) and in any case any "earth" signal sent up to recently reaching more than some 100 LYs would be all but lost in the radio/microwave noise of the galaxy and the rest of the universe. Even if we put our best and brightest and build the largest and most powerful transmitter we can the chance of ANYONE detecting the signal to begin with is highly dependant on the distance and the time-frame spent in the area we're aiming for.

Thus finding a civilization by means of radio/microwaves means you've got to be there listening within an appropriate distance and direction during such a time that you're actually there during the time that they're still at the technological level that they (and you) still use radio/microwaves for communications (adding/deducting the number of LYs from the source as well). And that's assuming that the species involved would even consider radio/microwaves as a viable technology to begin with.

It's like two people running around in the Amazons during night-time with a flashlight hoping to find a glimpse of light from each-other when they might be separated by vast distances or even eons of time.
Now a civilization using enormous radio transmitters for a long period of time would eventually be discovered if the signals are there for long enough for other species to actually catch them. If Xenomorph Alpha transmits from today and for the coming ten thousand years from a point (or points) at the other side of the milky-way a listener on Earth won't even know they existed (by means of radio-listening) until in about 100.000 years in the future or so.

 

[Bane5]

Thought I'd bump this with some food for thought since it relates to the topic slightly:

Astronomers claim to have recently found a plausible Dyson Sphere/giant alien space structure candidate that would be characteristic of a type 2 civilization. This system was also noted for the possibility of having planets in the "goldilocks" zone.

Though a thick cloud of comets may be the case, the star is well past the age for having them. The high density of such a cloud required to block so much light would also make such natural phenomenon ultra-rare, though not completely impossible. Such a thing could only occur if stolen from another star under absolute perfect conditions.

Further observation is scheduled to occur in the coming months.

 

[bz249]

Well 120 light-years is a petty little speck of distance in the Milky Way (our signals, if infinitely strong, could have reached some 150-200 other star-systems by now, out of a hundred billion to five hundred billion starsystems in our own galaxy alone) , not to mention our earliest broadcast were so measly that they probably couldn't even be discovered outside of the Solar-system without antenna-arrays the size of entire star-systems (the energy is dispersed by the distance squared) and in any case any "earth" signal sent up to recently reaching more than some 100 LYs would be all but lost in the radio/microwave noise of the galaxy and the rest of the universe. Even if we put our best and brightest and build the largest and most powerful transmitter we can the chance of ANYONE detecting the signal to begin with is highly dependant on the distance and the time-frame spent in the area we're aiming for.

Especially that there are way better methods of detecting at least life... spectral analysis of planetary atmospheres (at least for fortunate cases) is enterily possible with current day technology. So it is kinda likely that around 2200 we would have quite a good idea which planets have e.g. oxigen in their atmosphere, maybe gaining information of some typical industry related gases will be also possible.

 

[Praetori]

Thought I'd bump this with some food for thought since it relates to the topic slightly:

Astronomers claim to have recently found a plausible Dyson Sphere/giant alien space structure candidate that would be characteristic of a type 2 civilization. This system was also noted for the possibility of having planets in the "goldilocks" zone.

Though a thick cloud of comets may be the case, the star is well past the age for having them. The high density of such a cloud required to block so much light would also make such natural phenomenon ultra-rare, though not completely impossible. Such a thing could only occur if stolen from another star under absolute perfect conditions.

Further observation is scheduled to occur in the coming months.

Given that there are only two observations out of the three or more required for any amount of half-decent sigma I wouldn't jump to any conclusions at all. It could just be a fluke event like trailing Kupier objects interfering or other interference being responsible and it's very convenient (or inconvenient) that Kepler broke-down before any confirmation on the observations could be made.

The SETI thing does however tie nicely into what I wrote previously, a hypothetical Dyson-swarm-capable civilization at ~1400 LYs at that location might reveal nothing even if we aim or best radio-telescopes at it as they might have stopped using radio/microwaves millennia ago (and our signals won't get there until in another 1300 years, doubling that for a potential answer).

 

[aitaituo]

Especially that there are way better methods of detecting at least life... spectral analysis of planetary atmospheres (at least for fortunate cases) is enterily possible with current day technology. So it is kinda likely that around 2200 we would have quite a good idea which planets have e.g. oxigen in their atmosphere, maybe gaining information of some typical industry related gases will be also possible.

Which is super cool, but doesn't give us any clue that life exists there in any form, nor would earth stand out as a necessarily inhabited planet. For all we know, Alpha Centauri has a thriving fungus world orbiting it and neither of us are looking at each other the right way.

 

[State Machine]

You gotta dig Lee Morgan and Hank Mobley...

Oops, wrong forum.

But,

Extinct, ancient civilizations, if any, should provide compelling mysteries that you could explore and maybe solve via a chain of events. I've been reading about various ancient civilizations in world history that had disappeared or collapsed without explanation or little evidence to explain why with all sorts of theories being dished out by archaeologists. I feel that this would add to explorative aspect of the game.

Put it this way, exploration particularly of ancient civilizations that had been long gone is kind of like a detective mystery. Star Trek franchise had this detective mystery aspect for sci-fi television series in particular, especially in the Star Trek: The Next Generation (think Iconians) and I believe Star Trek Voyagers also had that aspect, though not sure if it ever encountered any extinct civilizations.

I don't think they'll actually let us play as a platypus. I suspect that'll be used as an exclusively OP NPC race...like the big bad boss that you have to defeat at some point.

Nothing wrong with the "Ancient Race" trope, etc. But as the dominant theme for the entire game - very bad... But if there were some insidiously, cool narrative that is not being advertised then ...

Cheers,

State

 

[Chief of Staff]

Nothing wrong with the "Ancient Race" trope, etc. But as the dominant theme for the entire game - very bad... But if there were some insidiously, cool narrative that is not being advertised then ...

Cheers,

State

Oh, I agree it shouldn't be an overriding theme. Just that it should be one of the elements in a game that can offer just about every possibilities besides the discovery of an extinct civilization.

 

[Xavori]

Nothing wrong with the "Ancient Race" trope, etc. But as the dominant theme for the entire game - very bad... But if there were some insidiously, cool narrative that is not being advertised then ...State

When the platypi return from beyond, they're going to smite you for your heresy.

And I don't mean a friendly little smiting either. I mean full on you-get-to-wear-the-gimp-suit-on-Danny-McBride's-bus smiting.

 

[Stolen Rutters]

I think they should put in an Easter egg related to the recent news surrounding the bizarre star, KIC 8462852. A percent chance of there being advanced alien megastructures, a larger chance your exploration ship gets caught in a giant comet swarm (with an additional chance of either damage or loss of ship). Make the event active only on Earth starts.