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I am saying that a game that was just released (i.e., has one or two years of work) is no where near as complex as one in its end stage. So, complaining about a game with one years work being less complex than a game with five or even eight years work does not make sense. I can understand why people felt cheated when getting a much simpler game as CKIII or Vicky III, but we have to realize that just-released games cannot have as much content as ones with years of work.
In my opinion, this does not make sense since the development team has a game that has years and years of input available to them as a starting point. So you take its strong points, cut or rework its weak points, add/improve some other mechanics and boom: you should end up with a better, cleaner game as a new starting point for an even more improved, better game.
 
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In my opinion, this does not make sense since the development team has a game that has years and years of input available to them as a starting point. So you take its strong points, cut or rework its weak points, add/improve some other mechanics and boom: you should end up with a better, cleaner game as a new starting point for an even more improved, better game.
It would be true only if the new game's code could be copy-pasted from the old game.
 
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Paradox knows it wants to attract massive amounts of players and make a killing from DLC's, but Paradox does not know how it is going to get there.
Part of the problem is that to some degree Paradox know very well how to get there, and plan for it during the game development. Mission trees, monuments/great projects and journal entries are examples of such features. They are deliberately designed fairly barebone at release to make it easy to add content to the game in the future.
And that, my friends, is why paradox "waters down" games, and why we should not criticize them for doing so, but instead praise their efforts.
Personally I'll hold on to my money and not buy the games if they do, just as I did with CK3 and Vic 3. If it is as hard to see the results of the effort from Paradox in the EU5 AI as it was for the AI in CK3, Vic 3 and Imperator, EU5 will be a terrible single player strategy game.

(The "sic"s are added by me, they are used when quoting texts with grammar and spelling errors to show that you did not misspell a quotation).
Ironically, editing the quote manually instead of just using the inbuilt forum quote feature when highlighting a post makes me much more suspicious of what you are to blame for in that quote. :)
Using the inbuilt quotation feature would even provide a handy link to the original post to help people verify that you didn't just make up the quote. Like this:
EU IV is a masterpiece, i only hope that you will not water down the game with EU V as what happened with the other titles, if you literally dont change anything about the design of the game but only improve the graphics and deepen the gameplay systems it will be a huge success. you already have a huge fanbase no need to dumb it down for new players.
 
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Yeah, sorry about the quoting, I am new to the forums. By saying that paradox "does not know how it is going to get there" I meant that they do not know all the updates they will make in the future. I am sure that when EU4 was developed, there was not yet a concrete plan on when parliaments would be implemented. I hope this clears things up. This is obviously a divisive topic.
 
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So if I get you correctly, a new game is supposed to have less content because code could not be copied?
One of the reasons that EU4’s updates are pushing more things like mission trees, and fewer new mechanics, is that the game’s base engine (Clauswitz?) is being pushed about as far as they can take it.

EU5 is going to have a totally new graphical and logical engine. A straight port of the EU4 code won’t work any better than you speaking your native language in a different country 1000km away.
 
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One of the reasons that EU4’s updates are pushing more things like mission trees, and fewer new mechanics, is that the game’s base engine (Clauswitz?) is being pushed about as far as they can take it.

EU5 is going to have a totally new graphical and logical engine. A straight port of the EU4 code won’t work any better than you speaking your native language in a different country 1000km away.
I would love to know how much of the budget (aka time) for a game that goes to research, feature design, proof of concepts etc, and how much that goes into actually programming features, graphical design etc. in something resembling the final state. I doubt we will ever get to know that, and it's probably not entirely clear for Paradox either since they will overlap, but I'm pretty sure porting a feature is generally significantly less labour intensive than creating the same feature from scratch. Be it the map, events or unit models with all the research that can go into it, or a basic mechanic such as moving a unit from one province to another with all the restrictions and attributes that comes with it.

It is not unreasonable to expect a significant portion of features added through DLCs to be reintroduced in the base game in the sequel. How big that portion should be probably depends on which features people like. I would for instance be perfectly happy to see mission trees, which is a very significant portion of the content added over the past five years, completely gone from EU5.
 
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I would love to know how much of the budget (aka time) for a game that goes to research, feature design, proof of concepts etc, and how much that goes into actually programming features, graphical design etc. in something resembling the final state. I doubt we will ever get to know that, and it's probably not entirely clear for Paradox either since they will overlap, but I'm pretty sure porting a feature is generally significantly less labour intensive than creating the same feature from scratch. Be it the map, events or unit models with all the research that can go into it, or a basic mechanic such as moving a unit from one province to another with all the restrictions and attributes that comes with it.

It is not unreasonable to expect a significant portion of features added through DLCs to be reintroduced in the base game in the sequel. How big that portion should be probably depends on which features people like. I would for instance be perfectly happy to see mission trees, which is a very significant portion of the content added over the past five years, completely gone from EU5.
I work in the computer world, and while I am not an application developer myself, I work with folks who are.

When a game is written in a new engine, or re-written to use a different engine, there may be some code that can be carried over but usually not much. Using a new engine usually means that you’re starting the new application from scratch.

Building or buying a new graphical and/or logical engine is not cheap, at all. Either way, you’re paying for the development time and that time will be significant. The new engine will hopefully be better able to handle problems, have more flexibility to allow the developers to express their ideas more easily, or simply be more efficient so the application will process more quickly.

But an engine may require certain programming structures, or specific programming syntax. Another engine may require different structures and different syntax. It may have added flexibility in some places and less in others.
 
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Just keep EU5 being complex empire building game, don`t dwell to much into CK2 or V3 territory. Like make conquests, internal management and trade interesting.

Trade in EU4 is my favourite implementation in any game. The profit is made by dominating logistical chain and that is how I hope it will remain in EU5. Imperialism & colonisation as a source of great wealth and profit.
So we heard you didnt like like army micro so we remove the War aspect from the game to give more focus to the diplomatic side of the game. You now have to micromanage what each of your diplomats do in each and every foreign country by telling them what actions they should be undertaking via the "diplomacy queue". We also made away with such quaint mechanics like colonization, ships and technology. They never worked anyway.
Victoria 3 feels really offended, but generally this is true. The amount of economy bussy-work in that game is staggering.
 
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Honestly CK3 is kind of crappy. I tried to like it, several times, and CK2 is still way better than CK3. So I just hope EU5 doesn't follow the same path than CK3.
 
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It would be true only if the new game's code could be copy-pasted from the old game.
it's how they did it for EU4 so...
We started building the game in late 2011, with Thomas taking the new engine version of CK2, with better map graphics, multiplayer code and support for the new DLC model, and ported in so that EU3 was running on it. After that we could start with the true development of the project.
 
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When they talk about a "new engine", it's usually a newer version of the same engine as the previous game. Most of the code can be ported with a few changes, which is still quite a bit faster than starting from scratch. Even with a different engine, the concepts and interdependencies of data are there as a model, so it can serve as a template or guideline to aid the development of replacement code.

Note that a lot of HOI2 code was reused in HOI3, which became an issue when several modifiers were found to be providing a +0.05% increase in a stat instead +5%, because the one game used decimal fractions and the other percentages. The old bits of code interpreted the decimal fraction increases as tiny fractions of a percent, making several critical technologies nearly pointless to research. Actually, the issue wasn't even caught until shortly before the last patch for the first Expansion. Defensiveness was hastily patched and rebalanced for land units in that final patch, but never corrected for air units, so several of the "critical" air techs do practically nothing for aerial combat (a 0.05% increase for each tech level, which usually becomes 0 due to rounding errors). Modding was unable to totally fix the problem by rebalancing because it's NOT misinterpreted by the naval vs air combat code, so fixing it for one situation breaks it for the other, and the underlying problem isn't directly accessible to modders. Old code does need to be checked carefully to avoid such issues if you're reusing it.

Most modern code is written in forms which can be ported with relative ease ("relative" being a rather vague term), and often needs to be adjusted anyway for different platforms due to differences in hardware. If Paradox isn't writing code that can be ported with a modest bit of tinkering, then it's doing something wrong.
 
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When a game is written in a new engine, or re-written to use a different engine, there may be some code that can be carried over but usually not much. Using a new engine usually means that you’re starting the new application from scratch.
Not really. A lot of business/gameplay logic can be moved over wholesale if it's designed properly since you only need to change stuff at the boundary interfaces. That's kind of the point of them. Besides, Johan even said in the EU4 10-year retrospective that one guy coming back from paternity leave ported pretty much the entirety of EU3 onto the updated CK2 Clausewitz engine at the start of EU4 so they had a playable game from the get-go (which to me is completely amazing and awesome).
 
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Besides, Johan even said in the EU4 10-year retrospective that one guy coming back from paternity leave ported pretty much the entirety of EU3 onto the updated CK2 Clausewitz engine at the start of EU4 so they had a playable game from the get-go (which to me is completely amazing and awesome).
At work, we changed one of our products to a different processor when we updated it, and had 60K bytes of code from the old design basically running on the new units later that day, with only a couple of functions still in need of tweaks. The EU3 to EU4 example sounds like a better-than-average case, but not abnormal.
 
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