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unmerged(15337)

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Mar 6, 2003
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As a rookie player, I am looking for strategic advice on how to keep certain provinces in my hands or my vassals', and especially how to keep a powerful Muslim state from conquering them.

Here's the situation: I am playing the Staden family, Dukes of Brandenburg, about 120 years into the game. About 50 years ago I noticed that most of Scotland had been overrun by the Al Muratibids (not sure about that spelling), a powerful Muslim kingdom in the Algeria/Morocco area. During a crusade period I decided to take them on and managed to acquire two Scottish provinces.

Since these lands are rather remote from my homeland in Germany, I appointed two relatives of my Duke to rule them as vassal Counts. This didn't work at all, however, because a few years later the Muslims attacked them and my Counts capitulated quickly even though I was bringing in reinforcements and could have defended them if they had held on.

But that is exactly the problem. It seems that Counts -- and Sheiks on the other side -- are almost in a panic of eagerness to concede defeat to an enemy, granting him the count or sheik title to their province. This tendency is so strong that, realistically, I don't think I can defend a vassal Scottish Count.

So I retaliated against the Muslims by attacking two of their Sheiks, later a third, and annexing those provinces. It's a bit paradoxical: in a fair fight, one on one, my Duchy and the Al Muratibid Kingdom fight pretty much to a standstill. (It's a different story if one side or the other is under heavy pressure from some other source.) But minor vassals on either side are easy pickings for the enemy Lord.

So as the game stands currently, I hold 3 provinces in Scotland, and they are part of my Duke's personal demesne because that is the only way I can be confident that I'll hold them. But my goal, ideally, is to liberate Scotland from the Muslims and set up a vassal or an ally in control as, ultimately, the King of Scotland. The problem is that I don't see how I can do that since as soon as I release a vassal province, it's under a deathwatch of reconquest by the Muslims.

I would very much like to hear some strategic advice on this point from the veteran players here.
 
jwolf said:
As a rookie player, I am looking for strategic advice on how to keep certain provinces in my hands or my vassals', and especially how to keep a powerful Muslim state from conquering them.

Here's the situation: I am playing the Staden family, Dukes of Brandenburg, about 120 years into the game. About 50 years ago I noticed that most of Scotland had been overrun by the Al Muratibids (not sure about that spelling), a powerful Muslim kingdom in the Algeria/Morocco area. During a crusade period I decided to take them on and managed to acquire two Scottish provinces.

Since these lands are rather remote from my homeland in Germany, I appointed two relatives of my Duke to rule them as vassal Counts. This didn't work at all, however, because a few years later the Muslims attacked them and my Counts capitulated quickly even though I was bringing in reinforcements and could have defended them if they had held on.

But that is exactly the problem. It seems that Counts -- and Sheiks on the other side -- are almost in a panic of eagerness to concede defeat to an enemy, granting him the count or sheik title to their province. This tendency is so strong that, realistically, I don't think I can defend a vassal Scottish Count.

So I retaliated against the Muslims by attacking two of their Sheiks, later a third, and annexing those provinces. It's a bit paradoxical: in a fair fight, one on one, my Duchy and the Al Muratibid Kingdom fight pretty much to a standstill. (It's a different story if one side or the other is under heavy pressure from some other source.) But minor vassals on either side are easy pickings for the enemy Lord.

So as the game stands currently, I hold 3 provinces in Scotland, and they are part of my Duke's personal demesne because that is the only way I can be confident that I'll hold them. But my goal, ideally, is to liberate Scotland from the Muslims and set up a vassal or an ally in control as, ultimately, the King of Scotland. The problem is that I don't see how I can do that since as soon as I release a vassal province, it's under a deathwatch of reconquest by the Muslims.

I would very much like to hear some strategic advice on this point from the veteran players here.
Click to expand...

It is hard to keep, and yes the vassal AI is a moron, so they can't really defend themselves unless they have superior forces. Also as soon as a one province vassal loses control of his county, he has to accept any peace offer the muslims propose, which is most likely to lose his titles.

What I would do is build up the provinces you have, and maybe expand with one or two more. Then set up a bishop there and give him all the provinces. Since bishoprics don't have a demesne limit he will never give out his counties, thus he can be a powerful local force with 4-5-6 provinces under his direct rule. Hopefully he can then defend himself until you come to help, or at least until you get Scotland under your control. You can always give the king title to a normal duke, if you don't like Scotland turning into an Arch-bishopric ;)

I can't count the number of times, I have crusaded in the Levant, and gotten some juicy provinces, but failed to hold them as the muslims later on push back and overrun the vassals I left in charge there.
 
My disappointment with Counts and Sheiks is not so much that they concede when they are defeated, but it seems often they give up and hold up a white flag even before the enemy army arrives at their province!

If I do create a Bishopric in Scotland, would I still be able later to take the Scottish King title -- assuming I get enough of the provinces? That is, would the Bishop's provinces still count as part of the 2/3 needed for the Scottish King title?
 
jwolf said:
My disappointment with Counts and Sheiks is not so much that they concede when they are defeated, but it seems often they give up and hold up a white flag even before the enemy army arrives at their province!

If I do create a Bishopric in Scotland, would I still be able later to take the Scottish King title -- assuming I get enough of the provinces? That is, would the Bishop's provinces still count as part of the 2/3 needed for the Scottish King title?
Click to expand...

Yes, vassal held lands still count as part of your realm, and thus they count towards claiming the scottish king title :)
 
...until your bishop is voted pope and you loose Scotland to the Papal State...ouch...:D

Im curious what happened to your attempt.
BTW, i know your problem with vassals just too well.
 
What happened in my game was that after taking another 1 or 2 Scottish provinces, the balance of power shifted so that I had a stable base there and was able to expand steadily against the Al-Muratibids and their vassals. Eventually they were driven completely out of Scotland by me and out of Ireland by Zenata, who then moved their base to Ireland and became Irish Catholic Kings there while my former Duke of Brandenburg was elevated to King of Scotland.

I did have one of my Bishops later voted Pope, at which point his former Bishopric reverted to my King's personal demesne.
 
jwolf said:
I did have one of my Bishops later voted Pope, at which point his former Bishopric reverted to my King's personal demesne.
Click to expand...


Ups, got me. :eek:
Forgot that, as i usually dont have many Bishops as Vassals. Aint playin catholic now either. Yea, demesne is returned to the liege. Sorry.
 
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