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Dec 6, 2010
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www.batracer.com
Hi all, i started my 1st game as British Empire. (scenario 1881).
And i have few problems and questions (YES,i have read wiki):1. imperialists are ruling so i cant do any reform,

2. i m constantly out of chemicals,glass and few more things (i made factories for that ones),even when i m letting pc to do trades i m out of money (despite my taxes are almost on max)..

3. what is point in conquering other lands when all i gain is revolts and troubles - i already took all south africa,egypt,dubai,oman and few my old satelites in india (on mission to make all india mine)...

4. i cant do any troops because i dont have small arms, i m confused about that complex economic-industry aspect

5. capitalists - have only few of them on main island but they are worthless :O ?!

6.how i can get some profits from india,aus,s afr and nz?


thanks in advance
 
If you are out of something, you have to basic options: produce it or import it. As far as import is concerned, there needs to be someone producing and exporting it, and you need to be sufficiently prestigious to have a high priority on the world market (which is not rally a problem, playing as the UK). If there is a very high demand on the world market or if there is simply no body exporting it, you will need to produce it with your own factories.
As a sidenote, do NOT let the computer handle trade, ever. Its behaviours is ludicrous at best and will sink your economy in no time (it seems it's in the process of ruining yours and you're playing the first world power). If you need something, set this good (for example glass) to buy <10. You contry will thus import glass constantly in order to maintain a stock of 10 glass and use it if needed, replenishing its stock as it goes.

Conquering lands does turn the conquered into a resentful bunch, but the effects decrease after 10 years (at this point, they lose the nationalism bonus to their militancy). In the meantime, the tend to be very angry. If you have taxes to the max as you said, this will lead to huge riots. Such a level of taxation will surely also make your national population angry. Try to set high tariffs instead of taxes. Avoid going above 50% taxes. Also, remember that it takes some time to fully increase your stock of something your produce. Only then are you able to export the goods. Try diminishing your stocks if something is produced too slowly for your tastes.

Conquering land will give you more people and more ressources. The riots are troublesome if your country is not on good rails. These men can then be turned into workers or soldiers. This is also why conquering india, australia and others. Colonizing lands gives you a huge prestige bonus, conquering nations like South African minors will give you access to precious metal mines. As for mens, they can become useful colonial troups. To get small arms, see above: produce or export them. The economic system of Victoria is more or less incomprehensible when you start playing because everything is linked to everything else, but after some time, you will get the hang of it.

Capitalists will build railroads and factories in your contry without you needing to spend a cent, but only if certain conditions are met: they must accumulate enough cash, so taxations of the upper class must not be too high, and tariffs will slow down their profits. Your country must have discovered the technologies needed for you to manually build these railroads/factories for your capitalists to do so by themselves. This can lead to the industrialization of countries without a single dime being spent, except for upgrading POPs to craftsmen and clerks.

Finally, if it's your first game, I think playing the British is a really hard path. You should make your first arms on smaller and capable countries with many opportunities. Belgium and Sweden are often cited, but Sardinia-Piedmont is also a very good choice according to me. They have few scripted events (something France, Prussia, the US, have by the boatload), many opportunities to expand (colonially with beligum, through conquest with sardinia, both with sweden), and you don't feel like you're trying to manage the entire world as you do when playing as the UK.
 
thank you very very much mate!! First, i disabled pc from further trading in my name, and it very good now when i got idea how whole trading system works :) but it very very hard to handle that myself- i mean my games advances slowly because of that..
I lowered much taxes and tariffs..
Another thing : about assimilating indians,egyptans,aussies...Do i need to have full citizen ideology as my ruling party to give them british passport or? That would be great then i could manage economy better..
And why i cant make divisions in england of england peoples, only offers me colonial or native divisions all around the world... :eek:
 
And why i cant make divisions in england of england peoples, only offers me colonial or native divisions all around the world... :eek:

You probably have too few POPs with British culture assigned as soldiers. For every standing division you have, you need 10k soldiers in you population.
 
The soldiers part has been explained by beowulf. The trading should not be very demanding : once you know what you need to import and in what quantity, just set the import to this quantity and let it do its work. Goods needed in factories don't change suddenly, so it can all be set in one minute.

Another thing : about assimilating indians,egyptans,aussies...Do i need to have full citizen ideology as my ruling party to give them british passport or? That would be great then i could manage economy better..

Assimilation is a complex process affected by the ruling party, the province where your people are and the recognized nationalities. First, the pop you want to assimilate must be in a province with a large majority of British. Secondly, it must be small. Very small. Its maximum size depends on the minority policy of the ruling party (the more liberal the higher the limit is), but even in ideal conditions, only a few hundreds of them can be assimilated at a time. To have these very small POPs, the best is to have people emigrate, because only a few hundred people usually emigrate from one province to another. Then, you have to pray they will end in a mostly british province and not be joind by thousands of other men of the same minority (otherwise they will form a pop to large to be asimilated).
If all conditions are optimal, you have to wait a couple of weeks for a POP to be assimilated. Again, the larger the pop, the longer the time. Take a look at vicky wiki's article : it says pretty much everything there is to know.
 
hey folks again me...okay let's go...
i m playing with uk 1881 scenario...
after 19 years of military party and presidental dictatorship i switched on democracy under liberal party...
my bb score is almost 100 because i was super-agressive but funtil 1900 i was leading both military and ind country,,now is usa...ottoman empire is my satelite+ many annexed indep. and uncivi. nations outside europe...
now it s time to learn economics better...capitalists finally started to build railroads and uneccesery factories (but i made mine before them so no damage)...most of empire revolt risk is in light red, even home island..my taxes are i would say low..- for rich 0%,middle around 25% and poor around 40%
and i set my tariffs near max (i think it0s 50% in democracy)...
daily and luxury goods which was in red in section of what pop's need i stopped to export and made good stockpile...
am i on way to have good economy now?
what do you say about sliders?
cheers
 
Taxation is a complex matter depending on the way your economy is structured.

What's important is that you have some revolt risk in most of your empire. This may, in part, be linked to the fact your POPs can't get their daily goods. The goods in red are goods your people cannot obtain. First of all : which POPs? There are huge differences between british pops and native pops, and even between pops of different professions.
Remember that POPs buy their goods on the World Market : if you stockpile grain, your national stockpile is not "reserved" for your POPs, but withdrawn from the market entirely : your POPs and any other POP in the world cannot access it: your people get what they want from the general market, and there are no "national" markets. By stockpiling and not exporting goods your people already lacks, you are withdrawing goods from the market, potentialy making the price for these higher (because of lower supplies), and actually hurting them. What you would need to do is decrease taxation. Because your people buy everything on the WM, some of the money lost from lower taxes should be gained anyway on tariffs, since, having more money, your people will import more.

It's hard to say if you are "on your way to have a good economy", because it's very difficult to judge of this through a few sentences. It depends on too many things. However, if your people cannot have all their daily goods, I would not say your economy is doing well.
 
So situation is....should i let say stockpile liquer at 100 and then sell it ,but maintain stockpile 100 or should i have a lot smaller stockpile..i tried to test; with huge and small stockpile and some pop's are always withouth it...even i lowered my taxes very very low...tarrifs are at max (50% under democracy)...i think i should switch again to dictatorship :p i gVE MY POPs everything,best reforms in world and they always seems to moan...and my profits are minimal ;20-30 pounds.... i lowered my sliders to maximum to make my pops happy...
 
Only maintain stockpile of goods you need, and adjust the size of the stock depending on your needs. Don't stockpile liquor if you don't use it. That doesn't mean your POPs will get their hands on what youbuy however : hat they can buy depends on their cash reserve. Look at it and see if they can accumulate money.

As for revolt risks, the economy is only part of what makes your population happy or set them to riot. It depends in huge part on your political situation, their consciousness, their militancy, their ability to get money, the type of regime in your country, the type of party in power, the plurality of the country, and so on. Select a POP with high militancy and consciousness and put your mouse on the numbers of militancy and consciousness to have a list of what your POP is happy and unhappy about.
 
Cheerrs mate for you help... anyway...
I hate liberal party and democracy..i cant do any social reform,and as i can see my pop's are angry about that despite they have the best healthcare in the world and other conditions...or i m in wrong? :O +0.03 Workhours means they have increased militancy because they want work less hours :O ?
and drednoughts...i activated them but..i cant built them because i dont have telephones factory and my capitalysts are building DAMN SUGAR AND GLASS factories :(
and due to my 80BB score usa DOW me and their modern fleet are destroying my fleet...USA became a real giant, they destroyed Canada and they are invading almost all my colonies with gigantic armies..
my armies are spread accros the whole world and in really really big trouble,,
and did i mention that USA destroyed France before me and took 'em 10 provinces in France+ colonial empire,,....
I need to do something quickly, hope my CAP will build some factory of phones,i need drednoughts....
 
well, at least now you get a feeling how it can happen that some countries flourish while other decline. It is just about good or bad governance.

Let's see, you managed to turn the leading nation of the world into a mere runner-up economically, which is most probably spending too much money on military, while still losing battles left and right.
Your country suffers from huge social imbalances, where the rich get richer and the poor have three choices : to get clubbed dead while rioting, get shot dead in some unimportant African wasteland or starve and work themselves to dead in merry old England.
Good food is probably rotting in your warehouses (trade stockpiles) while your people can't afford it due to high taxes and high tariffs.

Instead of helping your people you are spending your time fantasizing about some super-weapons which will turn a totally lost war into a certain victory and you are philosophising that democracy is a very bad governmental system as you are giving it ALL to the people , who are still moaning ... naturally this is totally unreasonable as they should be happy living in their slums , seeing their children die in young age and earn barely enough to afford some cheap liquor to forget about their sorrows ...

Welcome to reality ... :)

Lets start with the basics.
A tax rate of under 33 % will slowly reduce militancy. Slowly means that if you are having around 10 militancy among your poor pops it will take around 10 years at a tax rate of 0% to calm down your people and to prevent them from constant rioting.
This will also allow you to conquer vast lands but controlling them only with a small military, in this case having more troops to take on the real dangerous opponents, like normally the Germans.
A full funding of crime fighting will halve the revolting risk as well, so does keeping troops in highly populated areas like London or Liverpool (thats how the Prussians ensured their power during the liberal revolution)

Moreover recruiting from natives will cost you only 10% to maintain your army. In this case you can build up a large standing army about 150+ divisions but still ensuring a fiscally sound statehood. 150+ divisions even allow you cover all England with divisions which will significantly speed up the reduction of militancy (along with low taxes)

If you are concerned about not being able to introduce social policies then simply give universal suffrage to the people. Poor farmers normally normally vote for the Conservatives and poor unhappy factory workers for the Socialists (after 1890). Both will will have at least Interventionist views on the market. Nevertheless social policies are veeery expensive and hence I normally introduce only best healthcare, because of the positive population growths modifier.

In general you should always tax the Middle Class highest (best at 33%, maximum at 49%) while reducing tax for the poor (riots) and rich (capitalist building activities). This is what they do in EACH developed country of the world.
It also might be an interesting option at the beginning of a game to tax the rich at 100% in order to exterminate the Aristocracy. After all the old rich people are impoverished and disappeared (turned into farmers) then I fund a new venture capitalist class in specific undeveloped areas. I like to do that when I play a South American or an Asian nation, but it also works wonders in Russia. This part of the revolution the Soviets got right, but they failed at the second part.

Regarding badboy ... well, you obviously managed to become a real hated warmonger and you know how the Americans are when they don't like you. An old trick is to release colonies to reduce your badboy score and then to reconquer them in two steps (first demand all lands, but the capital, then later conquer the capital and then again release the colony). Each province which was liberated in that way reduces your bad boy score by 1.
My favorites are Siam (Thailand) and this desert state that you can release in Lybia. Both have many provinces.

Last but not least, factories.
First, please note that your "stupid" capitalist are same ones (AI engine) as the ones, which turned the USA into the leading nation. Economically every nation develops as per the indvidual decisions of its key participants, which are decided by the same AI that lets your capitalist build railroads and factories, or not.
So what are these "individual" capitalists looking for? Well, first they look for returns on their investments! Every railroad significantly boosts production and hence profits in a province or a state at no further variable costs but just capital expenditure.
Hence capitalist first build railroads.
Second, capitalist first and foremost aim to turn the cheap raw material of your country into more valuable goods. It is a risky and an expensive decision for them to build a factory that depends on imports only. Especially when they have to pay tariffs.
So let's imagine there is a country which has lots of coal. What can you do with coal? You can turn it into glass. (basically you can reach the necessary temperatures to make glass) Ok, lets build a glassfactory ..
Now the same country has lots of cheap wheat. Glass and wheat makes liquor. That sounds profitable.
But could you imagine a country where almost all wheat farmers have taken up jobs in the industries and hence most wheat is imported. Besides the World Market is oversupplied with glass, which can hence be cheaper imported than produced?
Well, in these cases it might be more profitable to turn to goods like furniture or cloths or artillery or ships ... if there are enough local suppliers for steel and lumber and fabric.

So how can you encourage your capitalists to build weapons factories ? Just make sure that they build up value chains.
If you want them to produce furniture, then at first make sure that your wood cutters are working hard and then wait until a lumbermill springs up and then soon the first furniture factory will open gates.
If you want to speed up processes then create important factories yourself (like steel an chemicals) or better make sure that the existing supplying industries (steel, chemicals, fabric, lumber and explosives) work on maximum productivity.

How can you do that ?
Either you support people in attaining better qualifications (provide money and free books to farmers or factory workers so they can get a degree and take up clerk jobs) and make sure that big clerk pops are working in the most important factories (best >25k or even >75k).
Or you boost productivity of all industries in a region by investing into better infrastructure (railroads).
Or , if your export are high, you provide more people with cheap venture capital so that clerks will become entrepreneurs (capitalists) themselves. These new entrepreneurs will then found new companies (build factories) often in markets which are still undersupplied.

This is what I always liked most about Victoria. Whatever you do (positive measure) makes actually perfect sense.
It is possible to turn even Korea (which is scripted to be colonized by Japan) into a First-World nation, just given some time and using the right policies ..
(as an example : You are the strong man in a Constitutional Monarchy in order to be able to change the ruling party as per your needs. Most of the time you follow ultra-liberal policies, but occasionally you use state planned initiatives to boost certain key industries. I decided for steel as I had lot of coal and iron and lots of labour in the grain provinces. I also funded some big capitalist groups in Seoul and the Southern provinces.They moved quickly from steel into steamer building , which is one of the most profitable goods in Victoria. In this way the country double its exports every 10 years and this allowed to fund education for the people, army, navy etc. Later I read about the recent history of South Korea ... economics is no random game !
 
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Thanks mate for such a big post...it will help me,really :)
anyway before you made this post i turned situation... let's go...

I made white peace with USA.
They are double than me in industrial and army score.


Okay, than i had job to finish with Frenchs,Spaniards and Portuguese...(they were in colonial war with me,Spain in war; they all DOW'ed me)
I started to build large i mean very large number of divisons..
In short time i raised an army of over 1.2 milion men...
First i took Asian colonies from Frenchies and then i smashed their over 1milion men army in West Africa.
In peace treaty i left them 1 colony in Thailand,1 in Sahara and 2 in W.Africa;after war France was so exhausted and thay cant compete even with Italy anymore :)


Spain.....i landed on 3 places in Spain,smashed their army and in peace treaty i get whole south Spain :)

And finally i took all Portuguese,Belgian and Swedish ( they hade 4 states in Africa) colonial teritories

So war finished and my states slightly became "green" in revolrisk meaning.. :)

During the war i didnt bother with my economy so...that s why i m so behind USA...

With all that large army in Africa i decided to took all Indonesia from Dutch and i made it...

Next move will be.....
Total war on USA teritory

I will attack them on 3 places : Northeast Canada, landing near Seattle ad landing in Florida..
I will use around 1.5 milion man and will have ready full manpower pool..

And i secured Africa (from rebel) with around 30 calvary div,30-40 in india-burma.-thailand
,and around 15-20 in indonesia...

When i cant compete with USA in industrial score anymore i will try beat them on thier teritory...
And i have around 140 mil score and they have around 240 - that means they will hammer me :O ? (in meaning of number of div)
 
Mil score 240 vs 140 most probably means that they have more ships.
(all the steamer-based ship types provide a significant boost to military score)

If you are worried about their divisions then look up the current number in statistics (page 3 if I recall correctly). There you will find another important figure .. manpower.

In anyway as they are controlling the sea (as you pointed out) landing in US might be a problem. It takes quite some time for your troops to land on the shore and within this time the Americans can intercept you with their naval forces ... and they will.

But actually you seem to be much more interested in the military aspects of Victoria than the economical. Maybe in this case Hearts of Iron could be a more delightful choice for your taste. Warfaring in Victoria is actually very simple, while the economics and politics is the more interesting part, so HoI might provide more entertainment for your playstyle.