What mechanic determines when a sub fleet returns to port? I am having trouble with fleets running out of oil a couple of sea zones away from port.
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Are you giving them a new/changed mission while on their original mission? That is the usual cause, but it sounds like you not making that mistake.
Generally, I have no problems with German SS-IV out of Brest-Bordeaux. But I have experienced some problems with US Heavy subs based on San Diego but doing convoy raiding off Japan.
Generally, I have no problems with German SS-IV out of Brest-Bordeaux. But I have experienced some problems with US Heavy subs based on San Diego but doing convoy raiding off Japan.
Nope, I did not change the mission. I had SS4s running out of Kiel doing convoy raiding off Norway (early war) and some were coming back out of oil in Waddensee. No battles, no convoys raided, nothing.
Sorry, I have no answer. It is odd that some would do it, and others not if repeating same route/mission. Anyway, that is a comparatively short return and it shouldn't be doing it. For sure your subs - if attacked in Waddenzee with no oil - would be "dead ducks". I think there is a huge penalty... but their retreat would be very slowed too.
Maybe somebody at CORE has an answer.
I think all ships have oil tanks big enough for 30 days travel (and a bit more which we should not figure on and think instead as an emergency reserve). It should be simple to make all ships return at 15 days to guarantee they will be able to no matter how far out. While many fleets would return with 1/4 oil, that is preferable - especially if fleet is based on an island that you run convoy too.
I actually check most my fleets... and admit that I return many manually before mission finished because it looks like they too far from port on remaining oil. But micro-managing a whole bunch of U-boat packs is a bit too much.
Maybe somebody at CORE has an answer.
I think all ships have oil tanks big enough for 30 days travel (and a bit more which we should not figure on and think instead as an emergency reserve). It should be simple to make all ships return at 15 days to guarantee they will be able to no matter how far out. While many fleets would return with 1/4 oil, that is preferable - especially if fleet is based on an island that you run convoy too.
I actually check most my fleets... and admit that I return many manually before mission finished because it looks like they too far from port on remaining oil. But micro-managing a whole bunch of U-boat packs is a bit too much.
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OK, if you set for mission to repeat endlessly that puts the question into a different realm I think. I find aircraft running low on supplies if they flying "endless repetition".
I really think it best to not use "repeat mission" for fleets - especially subs. Better to look at them when they return to port and make sure they not heading back out with damaged units as often hitting convoys does result in sub damage.
But still, the game mechanics seem off to not account for proper refueling or timely return to port.
I really think it best to not use "repeat mission" for fleets - especially subs. Better to look at them when they return to port and make sure they not heading back out with damaged units as often hitting convoys does result in sub damage.
But still, the game mechanics seem off to not account for proper refueling or timely return to port.
Looks like they wait for full supplies and oil before going off on a mission, but I have another theory. It seems like they keep their mission going until they go past a certain threshold, without regard for how big the sea zone they are entering is. So, if they were say 5% above return level, they decide to continue to another huge sea zone. Problem is, once they get there they are now suddenly 10% below threshold, and don't have enough oil to get back. And of course, if they happen to get into one of those absurdly long battles (assuming they don't die) all their fuel gets sucked up and they make it halfway home before running out. Seems odd to me that the game wouldn't look at how long its going to take to get to a particular sea zone and how much oil will be burned before deciding to go. Perhaps they make the decision to go based upon the distance they have to travel back from their current sea zone, and not the return distance after they get to the next one.
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I am running 6 different sub stacks and 2 allied stacks all different situations world-wide and not getting same problem. Since you posted I been watching a bit more closely and am amazed at how closely most stacks are returning just before they run out of oil.
So I'm wondering if you having problem with all your stacks or just the one you did screen shot of. If the latter, maybe trying it out of a different port might change things? That's all I can think of.
So I'm wondering if you having problem with all your stacks or just the one you did screen shot of. If the latter, maybe trying it out of a different port might change things? That's all I can think of.
Hmm, I am running CORE, maybe that's it? I posted here since I figured that mechanic would be the same between the base game and the mod.
Well, I did not mean to blame them, honestly. I was only thinking they have some people that understand game mechanics very well.
Usually CORE fixes "issues" with AoD. So I inclined to think - if it just that one sub stack having problem - use different port.
Usually CORE fixes "issues" with AoD. So I inclined to think - if it just that one sub stack having problem - use different port.
Nah its not, its happening to my subs in other ports too. I looked at the division text files and it seems like the CORE files mess with supply and oil stocks, maybe that's it. I am just surprised nobody has seen this before.
Well, I have seen it sometimes before - in vanilla AoD. But it is the kind of thing - in the heat of battle given a month of elapsed play time with missions - I not sure if the occasional times similar happened did I cause that with setting new mission halfway into old mission, or other reason.
But if it is happening regularly, and the files show something odd.... then maybe that's it?
But if it is happening regularly, and the files show something odd.... then maybe that's it?
Could be, I see there are values which define how much stock of supplies or oil a unit carries and the consumption rate, but it doesn't seem like those would affect this issue since it seems more logic based. Or maybe it would? I wish I could move this discussion over the the CORE forum instead of starting a new one.
It is a known problem in CORE, even if we are not yet sure what makes it occur.
A couple of values interact poorly and make the submarines return too late. Less pronounced, but also happening for transports.
Any insights are welcome.
A couple of values interact poorly and make the submarines return too late. Less pronounced, but also happening for transports.
Any insights are welcome.
I see, so I assume the logic it uses is in the .exe yes? Does it only account for the distance back from where it is currently before moving again?
I'll add this (almost a week later), what does the "distance" value mean in the division .txt file? It's the only thing I can see that might possibly affect decision making, as maximum stocks don't seem like it would change anything.
It is firing range. 0.2 for SS1945 means 20 km. Battleships reach about 40 km, carriers can reach 200 km.
One would think not. It would only lengthen the patrol. But the decision to head back (and reach port before oil runs out) is simply a measure of how many days to reach port and how many days running left on the oil supply. I can't see the game not being able to read properly how many days running left... so it must be a problem with estimating when to return to port.
It may well be that the notice of needing to return is, as you said, delayed until sub reaches province it is currently going to... and once it gets there it is past its capacity to reach port with oil remaining (because it did not turn around when it needed to). The problem might be that units don't seem to reverse when halfway thru a sea zone - but only upon entering new zone.
Might be a bad interaction between max_oil_stock (division file) and _EV_SUPPLIES_STOCK_NAVAL_ (misc.txt), but I have not checked in detail yet.
@Wolf52 : Could you please ask a moderator to move this topic into the Bug Reports subforum for tidyness?
@Wolf52 : Could you please ask a moderator to move this topic into the Bug Reports subforum for tidyness?