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IsaacCAT

Field Marshal
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Oct 24, 2018
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  • Imperator: Rome
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  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
If PDX management is being honest and they will resume development when a new team is assembled in 2022, we could ask for a contract/agreement to make sure this happens.

Not like in EUIV or CKII to access their old DLC’s but to pay for at least 2 more years of ‘quality’ and content development.

PDX, could you prepare a subscription service or a kickstarter for the players willing to fund this?

If PDX does not deliver, we should be refunded. In exchange we have increased chances for I:R development.

The price and the minimum player count may problematic for the subscription service and the kickstarter campaign may flop as players take for granted that development should resume without them paying. But I thought is worth discussing ideas here on the Forum.
 
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I want to say I like this idea - but it's hard to believe that a company would be willing to get involved in something so open ended about content they've yet to put together or might not have even come up with. But I appreciate the place that this idea came from. Trust me - I'm holding out hope that this amazing game isn't totally gone either. :(
 
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Haha, I’d pay for it, but I have enough experience with companies like Paradox to know that it could never happen...
Yes, I think that's not going to happen for various reasons (legal and images ones mainly; for the latter briefly: if the campaign fails or they refund, nothing positive is gained for their PR; if it suceeds (and the result as well), the community happiness stands against the fact that the company needed community push/ressources to make and execute a good decision - which doesn't shed an ideal light on CEO and other bosses). Big companies model is different: Share holders invest and get a voting right in exchange. In theory, IR fans could buy Paradox shares and ask critical questions in the yearly general share holders meeting...

Also, I not sure if I would join such model, if the other side is a big company. Even if that means a lower risk in the end for me. It just doesn't feel right for me using the same tool indie developers use. I wouldn't hesitate e.g. to help funding more content for Imperiums: Greek Wars, as his developer cares a lot for the community (just have a look at the Steam forums) and the game receives frequent updates, which adress bugs in no time. And that is only possible because he is his own boss and no publisher interfering. Luckily, no such campaign is needed in this case though, as the game will receive a major expansion - targetting the Roman/Carthagian playing field of the western mediterrean sea BTW. It's not really comparable to IR and more a Civ-like game, but worth a look if you are willing to look past the graphics.
 
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After this week the last thing I want to do is willingly give money to paradox with the unlikely hope that they change their mind on shelving imperator.
It's clear that they chose the less played game and pulled the plug, so at this point instead of throwing my money at paradox I'd rather wait for Imperator 2 : Electric Boogaloo and see if they did learn their lesson.

The emperor is dead. Long live the emperor
 
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Kickstarter is there to give independent game Devs the means to produce something so niche that publishers won't invest in them.

It shouldn't be used so that big publishers can outsource losing money to their playerbase while still getting all the profits.


Also the problem seems to mostly be manpower and opportunity cost (their other projects are more likely to result in explosive growth in players) not lack of available funds so the paradox podcast taught me that this is probably not going to happen.
 
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I'm afraid that I have to Respectfully Disagree with this suggestion. Paradox is not some indie studio that needs money to kickstart their projects. They do have the money, if they don't have the manpower maybe they should make some self-reflection analysis to understand why.

Also, there's the question of what will constitute 'quality' content. Who will evaluate at the end of the kickstarter period if the objectives have been met? who will even set those objectives? Will there be periodic objectives to be met?

I think that the possibilities for this suggestion to end wrong are too much.

In my opinion, the best outcomes that we could have are:
a) They make a full pass to open as much as possible the game to modding (and make sure that the modding tools work)
b) They license the IP to another studio that continue working on it (there would still be a question of how this new studio would finance itself until delivering but well...)
c) Open source everything (One can dream)
 
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I'm afraid that I have to Respectfully Disagree with this suggestion. Paradox is not some indie studio that needs money to kickstart their projects. They do have the money, if they don't have the manpower maybe they should make some self-reflection analysis to understand why.

Also, there's the question of what will constitute 'quality' content. Who will evaluate at the end of the kickstarter period if the objectives have been met? who will even set those objectives? Will there be periodic objectives to be met?

I think that the possibilities for this suggestion to end wrong are too much.

In my opinion, the best outcomes that we could have are:
a) They make a full pass to open as much as possible the game to modding (and make sure that the modding tools work)
b) They license the IP to another studio that continue working on it (there would still be a question of how this new studio would finance itself until delivering but well...)
c) Open source everything (One can dream)
I think you are right, as others have pointed out. But I am looking for ideas to extend our contract beyond the product on the first day. For this and other games.
 
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So right, they've already had x amount on money from players already the original purchase price plus DLC's, now we ought to reward their incompetence and contempt (with the obvious exception of the work done towards 2.0 etc) for the player base on a game they have bungled and then shelved with a sub service?

Come on. Respectfully this is nonsense, and it is actually anti-consumer in the long run..

Kickstarting Paradox?

That's as ludicrous as kickstarting EA to make the next FIFA game. They don't need money to continue with this project they killed entirely because it wouldn't deliver enough profit for them to be bothered with, so we reward that behavior (killing a very good game because of money and for no other reason) by giving them MORE MONEY to do what they should anyway (develop the game), especially in light of the money we have already paid for this game?

What's next funding the burglar to rob your house again?

Man, I'm just staggered by this, and from a poster who I have read so often when I just lurked and had a lot of respect for.

You've got this entirely ass backwards, and I say that as respectfully as possible and without in any way wishing to cause offence.

I understand you are reaching for ways to extend dev of this game, a game we all enjoy and are devastated to have seen shuttered, but rewarding PDX for their (as a whole with aforementioned proviso's against re-stated) utter mishandling of IR is absolutely the wrong message to send.

They owe US, we owe them nothing, they should be developing this game for FREE if anything, we have paid enough and contributed enough already.
 
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hope paradox see what they are making people suggest, in no way shape or form should loyal fans to a big company have to fork out money to continue the development off a game.

paradox have really annoyed me this past week and I don’t want to be annoyed at them as they are my favourite games.
 
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hope paradox see what they are making people suggest, in no way shape or form should loyal fans to a big company have to fork out money to continue the development off a game.

paradox have really annoyed me this past week and I don’t want to be annoyed at them as they are my favourite games.

I hope they don't see what is being suggested here, what's next we pay for their pensions plan and office furniture?

Are we seriously suggesting we we pay THEM to develop games for them to sell us?

This idea is completely resetting the terms of transaction. This whole concept is totally nuts.

Can everybody just actually stop and think through this logically? put aside short term desires for your fav game to continue it's life cycle for a minute....

This exactly the pattern of thinking that led us to pre-order culture and the mess we find ourselves in as gamers, and also with this particular game....

We're right here, right where we are because we have informed the industry we will accept anything they shovel out?

Uh this is it, we might fix it later, but uh thanks for the money anyway....
 
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Money in and of itself is not the problem for me. From my private account I can invest up to, and in between EURO 2.000,- to 5.000,-
But I would demand a guarantee and a prospect outline of what game features to be developed.
From my business account I would maybe be able to invest more; theoretically speaking.


But.

What bugs me is the communication and the strategy behind it. Not only in this case, but overall. I read that the game was developed (partly) as experiment in working with smaller and/or flexible teams, or something like that?

I find that very strange. From a business perspective. The ancient world is a best seller when it comes to area. Furthermore, there is a huge amount of variety overall. Most game developers would put a monster crew on such a title. In terms of amount of people. Placed in that light I understand why the game was lacking a launch with a relatively small crew.

The events, missions, characters and developing multiple distinct government types along, is really a lot of work (settled tribe, migratory tribe, republic, kingdom, etc,). That is just the basis.

Tribes (settled) are left hanging. Migratory tribes are OK although a bit of a gimmicky. But settled tribes really, really need an overhaul.
They are unfinished to the point of irrelevance IMO.

The IR team has done really great work and kudos for that :)
It is also most probably not their decision to make. So, no hard feelings or something. Off course not I would say.
But this is no way to leave a game hanging. It resembles the 'strategy' used at launch.

I work as consultant, also with software amongst other things (offshore / maritime industry). I understand the decision taken with a game mostly topping at 1K players. But I do feel the same mistake is being as the one at and around game launch. It was unfinished and that damaged Imperator Rome in its development.


PDX at least could have given it a good sign of, and (final) resting place. PDX says: 'maybe we come back to the game in the future'. But will there be a player base?
If this was communicated early and packaged differently it would have anchored the game for now, with a slightly disappointed, but overall a content player base.
Just leaving this hanging unfinished all of a sudden is not going to do IR and PDX any favors I think.

However.
What's done is, is done.
C'est la Vie :)


What I would have done?
Combine the news of stopping development for now with a annunciation of a last patch & DLC. Charge for the DLC and update if necessary.

I don't understand that overall decision to not charge for big updates. Developing costs money. Companies need money to stay afloat. 1 + 1 = 2 IMO.
Why did PDX not charge for 2.0 f.i.? I have the feeling that strategy change resulted in negative forecasting figures for IR and a decision to pull the plug (for now).

So, I would humbly suggest PDX to develop one more DLC / update. Just to tie up the really, loose ends.



Primary theme:
Redesign the tribal mechanics as mean theme.

Secondary theme:
Smooth out characters
(no more scorned families + tie families to holdings in a more intricate sense or something like that).

Tertiary theme:
Small trade and economics update. Based on player suggestions and what PDX can do.


This is all meant as positive criticism. You've done a great job with IR.
Thank you for the music! :)

Hope you reconsider ;)
 
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I don't think it's up to me to fund the game of a major developer that just decided to drop it, and with no guarantee whatsoever that they will deliver. They don't lack funds anyway.

At most I'll buy the heir of alexander dlc when it goes on sale, just to experience the game at its fullest and show it some postmortem appreciation.
 
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And just to be clear, while there are still room for improvement, i consider imperator to be a complete game with solid mechanics that I can and am modding extensively to my needs. If they revive it, good. If they don't, I'll still play it like i still play with Victoria 2. Couldn't care less about steam numbers.
 
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I don't understand that overall decision to not charge for big updates. Developing costs money. Companies need money to stay afloat. 1 + 1 = 2 IMO.
Why did PDX not charge for 2.0 f.i.? I have the feeling that strategy change resulted in negative forecasting figures for IR and a decision to pull the plug (for now).
Because absolutely nobody would have paid to receive what imperator should have been at the start?
 
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A publicly traded company should not (and probably cannot?) accept handouts; that's what the shareholders are for!

If a for profit project needs charity to be viable, it either isn't financially viable, or it hasn't been monetised properly.

If I:R is prematurely abandoned, I'd like to see it Open Sourced so development can be continued by the community.
That'll *never* happen though; businesses obsessively hoard IP, often at the detriment to the IP itself
 
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I just want to say that I now hate everyone at Paradox management on a personal level and that they are ruining our games. If they feel like they will gain more money for their investors by doing things like this more power to them.
As somebody who bought every singe DLC and pre ordered Imperator I feel like I was scammed in more ways than one. Just when the game was shaping up to be amazing with the 2.0 update they just decapitate it like this and I have nothing more to say than I'm glad I didn't buy CK3.
As for the developers - you guy are great and deserve way better than what Paradox gives you. I hope many of you can one day create your own studios and make good games because God knows that this company won't be doing it anytime soon.
 
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