Subterfuge Tradition & Influence Gain – Questions

[Omega70]

Hi all,

1. Is it stupid to pick Subterfuge as the first tradition in PvE just to find aliens? I want to understand if it really helps and speeds up the process. Does it actually make the discovery icon (the one that looks like a large satellite) appear faster?
2. How do you gain influence effectively?
3. Edit: Also, I’ve noticed that sometimes alien empires are hidden behind wormholes or black holes, and you need the right technology to reach them. But the Wormhole Stabilization tech takes forever to appear, which doesn’t seem very fair. Meanwhile, the alien empire keeps getting stronger. What do you think?

Edit last: "I’ve noticed that the process of making a claim on a planet is a bit confusing. First, you need to click on Diplomacy, then among the various options, you’ll find Claims, but there’s nothing visible there. To actually make the claim, you have to zoom into the system and click a small ‘+’ button. This sequence is quite confusing, and I think it’s one of the most difficult things to learn in the game.

 

[Bitzo]

Is it stupid to pick Subterfuge as the first tradition in PvE just to find aliens? I want to understand if it really helps and speeds up the process. Does it actually make the discovery icon (the one that looks like a large satellite) appear faster?

The opener gives +1 Codebreaking, which makes it more likely for you to roll new First Contact events faster once you spotted something, but you still need to see something and assign an Envoy first to get it started. Unless the other empire is Inward Perfectionist or a Gestalt Consciousness, your Codebreaking should beat their Encryption, so you are more likely to be the one to get the Influence reward and occasional Special Projects. Establishing communications faster also means you can declare war faster, so taking the Subterfuge opener early is a viable option for extreme military rush builds.

How do you gain influence effectively?

Beyond the above? Try to find the Artisan Enclave and become their Patron for random Events that give 50 Influence, luck out on pre-FTL observation and get the Satisfying Insults tech for +50 Influence (and +2% Happiness) every so often, spend 100 Minor Artifacts to feel better about yourselves when playing xenophobic empires, granting Influence and Xenophobe Ethics Attraction for a decade, and more passively, be a Gestalt (+1) or some degree of Authoritarian (+0.5/+1) and/or adopt the Domination Tradition Tree and grab Colonial Viceroys for +0.5 monthly.
Indirectly, being (Fanatic) Xenophobes or a Devouring Swarm, dipping into Expansion or picking the Interstellar Dominion AP gives you more Influence since all of those reduce Outpost build cost. If you retain vassals, you can also tax their expansion, making it more expensive for them but giving you a portion of their Influence spent every time their borders grow. The Ministry of Truth Holdings you can put on your subjects' capitals also make them produce a small amount for you.

Beyond that, staying at or near the maximum of your Naval Capacity generates more.

Edit: Also, I’ve noticed that sometimes alien empires are hidden behind wormholes or black holes, and you need the right technology to reach them. But the Wormhole Stabilization tech takes forever to appear, which doesn’t seem very fair. Meanwhile, the alien empire keeps getting stronger. What do you think?

Wormhole Stabilization is a Particles tech. You can increase your chances of drawing it by having your Head of Research have the associated Expertise Trait, or by getting higher chances to draw rare techs through the Technological Ascendancy Ascension Perk or Dimensional Worship Civic (or later in the game, one of the perks of the Research Cooperative Federation type). In the end, which technologies you draw is dependent on luck though.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

I’ve noticed that the process of making a claim on a planet is a bit confusing. First, you need to click on Diplomacy,

You can do it directly from the Claims menu on the side. Open the menu, click on the system, and hit the claim button at the bottom of the menu.

 

[Omega70]

@Bitzo Thank you for your valuable advice! I will carefully analyze it and take it into consideration.

 

[Omega70]

You can do it directly from the Claims menu on the side. Open the menu, click on the system, and hit the claim button at the bottom of the menu.

Initially, the claim option does not work directly from the Diplomacy menu. You need to first make the claim inside the system by clicking on the system, and then you'll see the "+" icon at the bottom of the screen to make the claim. After you’ve made the first claim inside the system, the claim option will then work from the Diplomacy menu as well. This is the correct process, and it can be a bit confusing at first. ?


Edit: Try searching for aliens under the options on the left where all the alien contacts are listed. Then, go to Diplomacy and try making a claim, and you'll see that it doesn't work. The claim option only works once you've made the first claim inside the system itself, as I mentioned earlier.

 

[prismaticmarcus]

Initially, the claim option does not work directly from the Diplomacy menu

You DON'T need to go via diplomacy. Do it directly from the Claims menu on the sidebar.

 

[Ryika]

The opener gives +1 Codebreaking, which makes it more likely for you to roll new First Contact events faster once you spotted something, but you still need to see something and assign an Envoy first to get it started. Unless the other empire is Inward Perfectionist or a Gestalt Consciousness, your Codebreaking should beat their Encryption, so you are more likely to be the one to get the Influence reward and occasional Special Projects. Establishing communications faster also means you can declare war faster, so taking the Subterfuge opener early is a viable option for extreme military rush builds.

Worth noting though that First Contact Speed for players is inherently faster than it is for AIs, so the chance is always weighted in the player's favor.

More Codebreaking helps tip the scales even more (and significantly so), but is that worth taking Subterfuge for? Imho, probably not.
/edit: Specifically when not planning to declare war of course, it actually does have its uses for early wars with tracking and dodge chance.

 

[Omega70]

You DON'T need to go via diplomacy. Do it directly from the Claims menu on the sidebar.

Worth noting though that First Contact Speed for players is inherently faster than it is for AIs, so the chance is always weighted in the player's favor.

More Codebreaking helps tip the scales even more (and significantly so), but is that worth taking Subterfuge for? Imho, probably not.
/edit: Specifically when not planning to declare war of course, it actually does have its uses for early wars with tracking and dodge chance.

Thanks for the explanation! Just to clarify, between Discovery and Subterfuge as the first tradition, which one would you recommend for quickly finding aliens and making contact? I understand Subterfuge can help with Codebreaking, but Discovery seems to have some good exploration bonuses. What do you think would work better for early alien encounters?

 

[SirBlackAxe]

Thanks for the explanation! Just to clarify, between Discovery and Subterfuge as the first tradition, which one would you recommend for quickly finding aliens and making contact? I understand Subterfuge can help with Codebreaking, but Discovery seems to have some good exploration bonuses. What do you think would work better for early alien encounters?

Depends how you're looking for aliens. If you're surveying every system before moving on, take discovery for the survey speed bonus. If you're just entering systems and then moving on without surveying though, it's not going to help.

Two more things that will really help are sensor range and ship speed. For sensor range you can try to rush down the +1 sensor range physics tech, invest in leader XP gain to get early Explorer scientists, and/or rush rare crystals so you can spend them on the +1 sensor range edict. For ship speed you can try stacking commanders with the Skirmisher trait on your council.

Don't forget you can scout and trigger first contacts with your military fleets, and once you have +1 sensor range also as many army transports as you care to build!

 

[ShadowGamerXXX]

Thanks for the explanation! Just to clarify, between Discovery and Subterfuge as the first tradition, which one would you recommend for quickly finding aliens and making contact? I understand Subterfuge can help with Codebreaking, but Discovery seems to have some good exploration bonuses. What do you think would work better for early alien encounters?

It depends on whether you are looking for an early war or a more diplomatic approach. If it is the former, Subterfuge is the best option between the two. If it is the latter, Discovery is the best, offering more useful advantages in general for the early game.

 

[Bitzo]

Worth noting though that First Contact Speed for players is inherently faster than it is for AIs, so the chance is always weighted in the player's favor.

More Codebreaking helps tip the scales even more (and significantly so), but is that worth taking Subterfuge for? Imho, probably not.
/edit: Specifically when not planning to declare war of course, it actually does have its uses for early wars with tracking and dodge chance.

In my defense the only thing I recall about the advantages of early Subterfuge was from a forum post talking about how you can rush down AI on GA, no scaling in 5 years or less with it from a while back. I don't think I've ever actually taken it as my first pick myself.