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Surrendering Units Function

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Ragga

Ragga

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Apr 9, 2015
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As posted in articles and videos... although 'surrendering units' have been mentioned, there is no info on how this effects gameplay.

This is a really new function!

Usually in an RTS, you simply destroyed a weak enemy unit or they retreat... but with the option of 'surrendering' what effect will this have:

Will it be advantagous for the Army forcing a surrendering unit - will points be allocated???

or

Will the Surrendering Unit's Army receive some type of bonus for not loosing a full unit (CoH and retreating???)

or

Will it be a function that the AI does when the unit can no longer take orders???

or...
 
I'd imagine it's nothing complicated, just a way to remove an enemy unit from play without having to spend time or ammunition destroying it. It was probably devised as a way to counter militia/cheap unit spam, which was a criticized element of Wargame.
 
Indeed. I think they just surrender, drop the weapons and are out of game without fighting to death. Same mechanic as in close combat
 
Spielführer said:
Indeed. I think they just surrender, drop the weapons and are out of game without fighting to death. Same mechanic as in close combat
Click to expand...

You may be right... however it would seem to be a pointless feature unless there is something to gain from it.

Maybe you have the option to KILL or CAPTURE... nonetheless, there has to be some point in Surrendering Units.

There could also be a large POINT VALUE... however at the cost of having to ESCORT the PRISONERS off map??? That may be a cool feature.
 
Ragga said:
You may be right... however it would seem to be a pointless feature unless there is something to gain from it.

Maybe you have the option to KILL or CAPTURE... nonetheless, there has to be some point in Surrendering Units.

There could also be a large POINT VALUE... however at the cost of having to ESCORT the PRISONERS off map??? That may be a cool feature.
Click to expand...

You gain troops not being tied up having to finish off stragling remnents/random lone last man firing a bazooka killing your tiger 2 :)

Points are not the ONLY currency in the game, movement and time are both currency too, especially if the surrender mechanic is implemented well.
 
Raventhefuhrer said:
I'd imagine it's nothing complicated, just a way to remove an enemy unit from play without having to spend time or ammunition destroying it. It was probably devised as a way to counter militia/cheap unit spam, which was a criticized element of Wargame.
Click to expand...

Maybe they can actually introduce minefields now? That's basically what militia were in RD anyway.
 
The way I would like to see it executed is that the enemy gets control of the units, they can't attack, and they can be recaptured in a manner similar to supply trucks, if the player who captured the unit gets them to their own deployment zone the unit vanishes and counts as destroyed giving the player who captured them extra kill points.

Thus each side has a reason for dealing with surrendering as a concept. The side that surrenders might get a chance to liberate their unit before they are sent to the rear while the side that captures the unit can get extra victory points if they can get them to the rear. As an example if your top tier tanks (eg. tigers, tiger IIs, or panthers) are low on ammo or at risk of being overwhelmed you can order them to surrender rather than be killed outright and then attempt to recapture them later. Another potential idea is to tie surrendering to unit morale as well or instead of ordered surrendering, so if a unit is panicked or routed and enemies are a certain distance from them (within say 200 m for routed or within 20 meters for panicked) the unit will automatically surrender.
 
I really hope that Eugen doesn't allow for killing surrendered units. That just creates all sort of bad moral problems... Rather just have surrendering remove the unit from the map altogether.

The surrendering mechanic looks like a very slick way of giving more power to a well designed offense. In Wargame, a town with some infantry becomes a fortress that requires outsized combat power to reduce. Surrendering decreases the power of infantry to defend a town to the last man. I'm excited for this change.
 
DrRansom said:
I really hope that Eugen doesn't allow for killing surrendered units. That just creates all sort of bad moral problems... Rather just have surrendering remove the unit from the map altogether.

The surrendering mechanic looks like a very slick way of giving more power to a well designed offense. In Wargame, a town with some infantry becomes a fortress that requires outsized combat power to reduce. Surrendering decreases the power of infantry to defend a town to the last man. I'm excited for this change.
Click to expand...

Though it has to have some strong rules to it to stop abuse, EG a troop of 100 guys wont just give up because they are surrounded right away, they will fight hard for a good while prior to this, i hope that its implemented better then "squad is rushed in a tree fight and autosurrenders because derp". Theres also the multiple units trained and mentally prepped to fight enemies on all sides such as paratroopers.


As for moral problems, i am thinking backlash as a medium, dont need SJW/media types going "war criminals" etc....
 
mitchverr said:
Though it has to have some strong rules to it to stop abuse, EG a troop of 100 guys wont just give up because they are surrounded right away, they will fight hard for a good while prior to this, i hope that its implemented better then "squad is rushed in a tree fight and autosurrenders because derp". Theres also the multiple units trained and mentally prepped to fight enemies on all sides such as paratroopers.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with this, a well defended town / position should not surrender to some light probing force. The surrender mechanic has to include:
- relative force strength
- exhaustion of the unit in combat

So that a fresh formation can resist strongly, but a small exhausted formation will surrender or, even, a large exhausted force may surrender to a small grouping.

Well balanced, this mechanic may give some much needed and realistic strength to the offensive.
 
77Hawk77 said:
Will we be able to kill surrendering units?
Click to expand...

I doubt this will be in for the same reason that the holocaust isn't simulated in Hearts of Iron; not to say that killing surrendering troops is as bad as the holocaust, and not to say it's a matter of Paradox influencing Eugen. It's just something that adds nothing to the game to make up for how morally gray it is to include it in an ostensibly "fun" video game.
 
I wonder if this will make unit veterancy more valuable. I'd imagine high-veterancy or elite units being harder to break or even fight to the death as opposed to surrendering, giving elite units another advantage when it comes to working in more small-scale tactical operations on the map.

Ex, a militia unit would just give up if surrounded, while something like a paratrooper unit can survive some serious combat or even fight to the death when surrounded.
 
I once started work on an Empires: Dawn of the Modern World scenario where you had to keep your troops supplied regularly by trucks, and if they ran out of supplies, they became combat-incapable and instantly surrendered to any enemy they encountered. Something like that would actually work well for SD: if units out of ammo are ambushed by enemies at close range, they drop their weapons and give up. You lose the units, and the enemy doesn't have to spend ammo destroying them.

Also, I suppose it could be tied to morale, particularly routs, if they are in the game. Overrun a panicked or routing unit, and they surrender to you.


Oh, and no thread on surrender is complete without this gem.

Edit:
Nerdfish said:
Can we deploy captured units in persistent campaign and send them right back at the enemy ><
Click to expand...
Gaining some intel on the enemy when you capture units would be pretty cool.
 
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