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Henri II Valois
Mar 19, 2002
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www.europa-universalis.com
I was wondering...since we at least know 48 dynasties are playable - do they last through the whole game? or should they they at least..

Are the major ruling dynasties in 1066 the same suckers who should be around in 1200?

Or perhaps like in EU2 maybe certain dynasties can evolve into others...I can't think of an example of this but it wouldn't be right for example if the EU2 map in 1750 looked the same as in 1420.

Though its kinda luck of the draw you generally do get different borders etc as some of the minors get gobbled up.

Are dynasties stronger than the lands they rule?

Did the dynasties in 1300 or so more or less remain static since 1066?

And did any major families arise after 1066? The only case I can think of is the Habsburgs, but I suppose they could just start playable and later on let their signifigance grow - perhaps through an event?

Any thoughts or opinions on this matter? This occured to me last night when I was trying to fall asleep.

I hope they set aside a few user defined tags. It would be cool to make your own dynasty. But we'll see how it goes, eh? ;)
 
Dinastyes felt, arose, chnaged name with time, I think early dinastyes can be totally different than the final ones.

For example the Spanish Kingdoms will start with Dinsties of Barcelona, Navarra and other wich name can't remember now and IRL it changed to all have Trastamara dinasty on throne.
 
Sometimes, when a dynasty became extinct in the male line, another related in the female line would succeed (so some continuity even if technically a new dynasty).

Germany: Ottonians (Saxony): 919-1024; Salians (Franconia) replaced them based mainly on the fact that Conrad II was a descendant in the female line: 1024-1125; Hohenstaufen (Swabia) succeeded them, again, because Conrad III was descended in female line: 1125/38-1250/68. Looks like a German dynasty could expect about 100 years on the throne, and despite all the hype over elections, relations obviously did make the difference (the Electors didnt grow over-powerful until after the Interregnum).

England: The Normans (1066-1135) obviously effected a complete change of dynasty by conquering the kingdom, but again, they were followed by the Angevins/Plantagenets (1154) because of descent in female line. Later you have competing lines of this house based on male descent from Edward III (Lancastrians and Yorkists).

I dont recall the details of the switch in France from the Carolingians to Capetians, but werent both Edward III and Philip de Valois descendants of Capetians in female line?

So if you play Germany, marry your daughters well, because the future of the Empire may rest on their children! And if playing England, dont have too many sons...;)
 
Originally posted by Txini
Dinastyes felt, arose, chnaged name with time, I think early dinastyes can be totally different than the final ones.

For example the Spanish Kingdoms will start with Dinsties of Barcelona, Navarra and other wich name can't remember now and IRL it changed to all have Trastamara dinasty on throne.
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Still, the Trastamaras at the end were all descended from those earlier dynasties through the female line, so the same family did stay on the throne the entire time...
 
Originally posted by BarbarossaHRE

I dont recall the details of the switch in France from the Carolingians to Capetians, but werent both Edward III and Philip de Valois descendants of Capetians in female line?
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The Valois (and later the Bourbons) were descendants of Hugh Capet in the male line. The French throne was not inheritable through the female line according to their interpretation of the Salic Law. This caused a little fight called the Hundred Years War, after all... :D
 
Originally posted by Demetrios
Still, the Trastamaras at the end were all descended from those earlier dynasties through the female line, so the same family did stay on the throne the entire time...
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Have to tell you you are wrong are descendent by male :p Enrique II de Trastamara was son of Alfonso XI(of the house of Burgundy), were habsburgs and boubons wich came for female line.

But his only have effect in Castille, Leon, Navarra and Galicia, not in Aragon or Catalan Counties.
 
Originally posted by Txini
Have to tell you you are wrong are descendent by male :p Enrique II de Trastamara was son of Alfonso XI(of the house of Burgundy), were habsburgs and boubons wich came for female line.

But his only have effect in Castille, Leon, Navarra and Galicia, not in Aragon or Catalan Counties.
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LOL

They were descended in the female line too, though the daughter of Pedro the Cruel! :p

But since they have male descent, why were you worrying about it? Of course the big problem was the illegitimacy of Enrique of Trastamara...
 
Originally posted by Demetrios
The Valois (and later the Bourbons) were descendants of Hugh Capet in the male line. The French throne was not inheritable through the female line according to their interpretation of the Salic Law. This caused a little fight called the Hundred Years War, after all... :D
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Thats why it was a question! :) I knew Edward III was female line (Isabella) and that was the basis of his claim to France and a cause for the HYW. I couldnt remember where Philip's claim came from, and totally forgot he used the Salic Law to refute Edward's claim and make his own appear legitimate. Still, with either claim, there was some sort of continuity with the previous dynasty, which was really my point (thanks for helping me make it ;))
 
Originally posted by Jaron
What were the Habsburgs up to in 1066?
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They were minor German nobility, holding lands in the Duchy of Swabia (in Zurichgau, Thurgau, Klettgau, Alsace, Breisgau) as well as across the border in Burgundy (mainly in Aargau). Werner I was Count of Hapsburg (1064-1096) and ally and/or relative of Rudolf I von Rheinfelden, Duke of Swabia & Imperial Rector of Burgundy (1057-1079), as well as Anti-king of Germany (1077-1080).

True to their later policy of "conquest by marriage", they successfully tied themselves in this period to several important families in Swabia & Burgundy (Zahringen, Lenzburg, Nellenburg, Kyburg, Pfullendorf-Bregenz, Dagsburg-Egisheim, etc.), and as these dynasties went extinct one-by-one (12th-13th c.), inherited the great majority of their possessions in Alsace, Breisgau, Rhaetia, Burgundy, and what became Switzerland. By the time of Rudolf I, they were by far the most powerful family in Swabia.
 
Don't forget the Estes, the Guiscards (a shorty but a goody) and the Anjous. The latter two very good at digging their own graves.
 
Originally posted by BarbarossaHRE
Thats why it was a question! :) I knew Edward III was female line (Isabella) and that was the basis of his claim to France and a cause for the HYW. I couldnt remember where Philip's claim came from, and totally forgot he used the Salic Law to refute Edward's claim and make his own appear legitimate. Still, with either claim, there was some sort of continuity with the previous dynasty, which was really my point (thanks for helping me make it ;))
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Edward's claim was more of a pretext than the cause of the HYW. England needed Flanders in revolt (again) against France for his textile trade. For every loyalist, Edward's claim was an illegetimate one, since Jeanne of Navarre, Louis X's daughter, and her son would have had priority anyway, her suspected bastardness notwithstanding.

Philippe VI's claim was via his father Charles of Valois, count of Romagna, titular Emperor of Constantinople, which was the brother of Philippe IV and uncle to Louis X, Philippe V and Charles IV. Philippe VI was thus their germain cousin.

Drakken
 
Argh!

stop it, my head is beginning to hurt...:D
 
Dynasties didn't really change, but where modified, cousins would take the throne with there was no direct male heir. It wasn't commonplace to bring in an entire new dynasty, just branches of the main one.
 
Originally posted by historycaesar
Dynasties didn't really change, but where modified, cousins would take the throne with there was no direct male heir. It wasn't commonplace to bring in an entire new dynasty, just branches of the main one.
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With the exception of Byzantium though..
 
Originally posted by Havard
With the exception of Byzantium though..
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Even there you married into a previously imperial family to secure your throne though. Alexius I Comnenus was married to a Dukaina, Theodore I Lascaris was married to the daughter of Alexius III, John III Vatatzes was married to the daughter of Theodore I Lascaris and Michael VIII Paleologus was married to a Vatatzaina.

So there weren't any occasions at this time where an emperor unrelated to the previous one took the throne.

Edit: In this time that is. Earlier I'm sure there were occasions.
 
Originally posted by Wulfram
Even there you married into a previously imperial family to secure your throne though. Alexius I Comnenus was married to a Dukaina, Theodore I Lascaris was married to the daughter of Alexius III, John III Vatatzes was married to the daughter of Theodore I Lascaris and Michael VIII Paleologus was married to a Vatatzaina.

So there weren't any occasions at this time where an emperor unrelated to the previous one took the throne.

Edit: In this time that is. Earlier I'm sure there were occasions.
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That is what I was saying when people were complaining that the game starts just a bit too early for Byzantium, with a Doukas, Konstantinos X, on the throne, instead of the Kommenoi/Palaialogoi family grouping which would basically rule the country for the rest of its history after 1081. It's pretty simple if you wan the Kommenoi to come to the throne - do what was done historically and marry Konstantinos' neice to Alexeios Kommenos!
 
Maybe this isn't the right Theread but...



... Will Portugal be playbel??? in the beggining of the game???
 
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