• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Originally posted by Cornelius
IMHO, the technology in CK is not as important and sophysticated as it is in HOI and Vicky. In EU it was even a very simple technological development.

Because it was based on the boardgame's neccesarily simple model. It could easily have been made more complex. In fact, the middle to late period of CK(1200-1500) could well be considered the most techologically inventive period in Europe prior to the industrial revolution. Farming technology, for example - the basis for how large a population an area can support - was extensively developed and implemented in this period.

Originally posted by Keynes
I would say that changes in finance, production, trade, and social organization during the period were more important and significant than changes in military tactics or political organization.
[/B]

I would say that the 6 categories(and probably a few more) listed above are so intertwined that it is meaningless to seperate them in a discussion. Political and social organization were extremely closely related in the CK era, for example.

Originally posted by Radagast
it was in fact invented in the 12th or 13th century, but the clergy regarded it as a foolish affectation and an afront to god. apparently, eating with your hands was how god meant for man to eat, so using a fork was sacriligious. the fork remained in use only by select italian noble women (who felt that having clean hands was more important that looking good for priests) until the late renessaince, when everyone realized that the clergy were idiots and forks were useful. [/B]

Right....the clergy controlled people's cutlery preference and all medieval people ate with dirty hands...which is of course why hand-washing with scented water before and after each dish and eating with the knife and spoon are described as standard in virtually every good-conduct manual and cookbook from the early 12th century onwards....as far from Italy as Norway...

Laws and prescriptions from clergymen and secular rulers used as one-off examples are a very silly way of trying to understand the society of the middle ages. The myriad examples, like the one cited above, are a small drop of water in an ocean of prescriptions handed down from the middle ages. Many were meant simpy to mark disapproval, many others connected to other circumstances.

The use of different types of cutlery is a fashion thing and has nothing to do with practicality at all If it was a sign of development, chopsticks would not be used by anyone familiar with the knife&fork.
 
Originally posted by Cornelius
IMHO, the technology in CK is not as important and sophysticated as it is in HOI and Vicky. In EU it was even a very simple technological development. At the same time CK is a much earlier period then EU, and moreover, the accent of the game is on Noble Families. As we were able to see from the ONLY screenshot of CK, it will be the legal reforms that are the key "research" in the game.

The game has 4 centuries. It would surprise me if the situation in 1100 will be the same as in 1400. Things like education, science, the level of agriculture and literacy should evolve in those centuries and the players should somehow control that and make choices between them. The player will have to answer questions like:
Do I spend more on military training or education? Will this legal reform fit in my strategy? How can I change the situation to get more money?
 
Originally posted by Cornelius
IMHO, the technology in CK is not as important and sophysticated as it is in HOI and Vicky. In EU it was even a very simple technological development. At the same time CK is a much earlier period then EU, and moreover, the accent of the game is on Noble Families. As we were able to see from the ONLY screenshot of CK, it will be the legal reforms that are the key "research" in the game.

So, just because the one screenshot we've been shown lists legal reforms, that means that there is no technological research in the game? Right.... ;)

I find it much, much more likely that technological research is simply a screen that we have not yet been shown. :)
 
From the long long ago interview when CK was first announced -

"The technological system also is addressed. Rather than the linear tech development found in EU2, CK players will be able to direct their efforts. In each century there are five available techs to develop in only four areas of advance: Military, Industrial, Cultural, and Commercial. Each tech advance takes a flat amount (currently 200 ducats, but I’m guessing this will be tweaked during play testing) and a variable amount of time to achieve (but all five of a century’s advances must be achieved before starting on the next)."

How much has this has changed over the decades since the game was introduced in anyone's guess.:)
 
Originally posted by Sonny
From the long long ago interview when CK was first announced -

"The technological system also is addressed. Rather than the linear tech development found in EU2, CK players will be able to direct their efforts. In each century there are five available techs to develop in only four areas of advance: Military, Industrial, Cultural, and Commercial. Each tech advance takes a flat amount (currently 200 ducats, but I’m guessing this will be tweaked during play testing) and a variable amount of time to achieve (but all five of a century’s advances must be achieved before starting on the next)."

How much has this has changed over the decades since the game was introduced in anyone's guess.:)

That sounds a bit like the technological advancement part of Imperialism, where every invention would simply appear at a set date and require so-and-so much cash to be "invented" by your nation.

Of course, that was usually considered the weakest part of all Imperialism, so hopefully it'll be at least slightly different in CK... :(
 
Murmurandus said:
Most of the inventions were made by muslims those days and were imported to the west by returning crusaders or traders. I wonder how this will be incorporated in CK...

Many surgical procedures and surgical instruments were introduced to Europe from contact with the Muslims ;)

Its one of those completely useless little facts that you ever wonder will be worth mentioning one day!! :)
 
Marcus Valerius said:
I'm not disagreeing with you....

I was just expressing my fears that the economic model will not represented accurately enough to take into account your earlier suggestions. The truth is, we no practically nothing about the details of how it is to work in the game.

But why not have those as techs..?

Leading to bonuses in tradeincome at the special trading places... or increasing the income from provinces or decreasing intrest for loans

(btw that should be illegal..go get cash from pope, for no intrest :D. Huge NPV !).
 
You have advances in legal theory which clarified what was the government's business and what was the church's business, with the resulting decline in mutual influence/corruption caused by it.
Also many universities were founded leading to increased travel between countries.
Another thing is also the development of diplomacy, with embassies and so on. The Christians had embassies or their precursors in the Islamic countries which allowed them to quickly take advantage of inventions there, but there was no corresponding Muslim embassies in Christian countries.
The introduction of crops from the east is another thing that might have gone on at this time. I am not sure about when things like peaches (called Persian apples) and oranges (called Chinese apples) actually arrived.
 
Marcus Valerius said:
All that, of course, would depend on the level of detail with which the economic system is modelled.


And btw can anyone shed some light onto economic system? just tried to find some info on that but totally failed, poor me :)
 
MRAKoris said:
And btw can anyone shed some light onto economic system? just tried to find some info on that but totally failed, poor me :)

province xxx TAX
Peasants 1 100%
Burghers 3 100%
Church 10 0%
Noble 12 10%
INCOME

TOTAL INCOME: 5,2
To Lord: 2,6
To overlord: 1,3

That is, each layer halves the income moved upwards.
 
The camel said:
province xxx TAX
Peasants 1 100%
Burghers 3 100%
Church 10 0%
Noble 12 10%
INCOME

TOTAL INCOME: 5,2
To Lord: 2,6
To overlord: 1,3

That is, each layer halves the income moved upwards.


And thats all? Really? Nothing else is going to be up there?
 
MRAKoris said:
And thats all? Really? Nothing else is going to be up there?

thats what was in one of the previews (with greven iirc) ;)

Keynes, yup :)
I for one wonder what would happen if you tried to spread a even 30% across the board... nobles would leave you and the church have you branded a heretic..

but if that idea of taking 0% intrest loans from the church is in i dont think nontaxasion will be a problem :)
 
How about double entry book keeping?

As for the earlier post about algebra's etymology...
Yes it's Arabic, from al-djabr (Latin retained the al, in Turkish it's just "cebir")
 
Firstly is technological development really something that the player should be able to steer. Personally I'm dubious to the extent that Christian dynasties in the period were able to steer the development of technology, more than indirectly. Added to the fact that I think technology in HoI and Vicky were both off-putting and needlessly complex I think that a general EU-simple technological advancement would be much more preferable to a complex system.
 
Narcizo said:
Firstly is technological development really something that the player should be able to steer. Personally I'm dubious to the extent that Christian dynasties in the period were able to steer the development of technology, more than indirectly. Added to the fact that I think technology in HoI and Vicky were both off-putting and needlessly complex I think that a general EU-simple technological advancement would be much more preferable to a complex system.

I'm guessing that this is an argument against a HoI style research system, despite the first sentense... But I agree. Some Monarchs were very intressted in the development of weaponry and such, but for every monarch to keep a personal staff of proffesional scientists is just...not my idea of the middle ages. :) I SHOULD be able to keep a personal paid staff of astrologers, though. I wanna know if I'm going to win this battle damnit! :p