Are there any plans for implementing tech some time in the future? I think it could really enrichen the game (especially since it spans all those centuries and different levels of development of regions).
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Adding in technology means adding a barrier with Buildings, increasing their cost to have it backwards-reduced by Construction Tech. It means Republics can get near infinite trade zones by research. That doesn't even get into legalism, or the other techs. I used to wonder why there isn't tech - everything Technology adds to the game, it doesn't need to be here. I like the "building web" without technology barrier. I like having fewer means to get people to like me, or get buildings out faster, or more trade posts.
I don't think this game needs it. I think "technology" is a staple of "builder" games (be it rts, 4x, grand strategy, etc). Because of it being a staple, no company (except a total cheapo) would consider making their game without some kind of technology. I wonder, is it needed though? For all the depth it adds, is it needed?
For this mod, I don't know that it would make the game more fun.
I don't think this game needs it. I think "technology" is a staple of "builder" games (be it rts, 4x, grand strategy, etc). Because of it being a staple, no company (except a total cheapo) would consider making their game without some kind of technology. I wonder, is it needed though? For all the depth it adds, is it needed?
For this mod, I don't know that it would make the game more fun.
So do I. I don't even see anything in the code that hints at them being implemented. Making a retinue Mod would be no easy task, covering every spectrum of it. I think there -was- a mod dedicated to adding retinues but I don't know if anything happened with it.
For me, the choice is between bringing in Retinues, or speeding up Garrison Reinforcement (is there even a way to do that, without increasing levy reinforcement?). I would rather add in retinues to not disrupt the flow of the game. I have tinkered a bit with reinforcements, and they are slow for a very good reason.
Technological progress is present in virtual every total conversion mod and is the standard basis of not only CK2, but most medieval (long-time-spanning) simulation games. I don't want to say anything against the mod, I think it is literally the best mod this game has so far gotten and probably deserves to go up somewhere on the list of best game mods ever; I strongly praise the developers for that and think that they should get at least some form of recognition from PdoX. AGoT introduces immense depth in the game - but, having said that, I do think that technology outta make the world a lot more realistic; enable players to feel the game on a closer level and enjoy it.
I understand that it does raise some issues and it's probably a good reason it was removed in the first place, but I do think that some model should be made to attempt to surpass or avoid those problems. So far the tooltip on the greyed-out button is totally misleading, claiming that "There is no technological progress" in the World of The Songs of Ice and Fire.
I don't have experience with CK2 modding so I cannot say how can that be realized effectively; I have a strange sense of perpetualness starting the game in the earliest and latest start date. It doesn't really feel like centuries have passed, but it's just as it's static, all the same. I agree with your comment on the purpose of technology, but I think tech serves in CK2 a different purpose - a way to show that time has passed. And, like I've already mentioned, indeed some parts of the world were more developed than others (that could fix the issue of having to just add up numbers to make someone stronger, when tech modifiers could cover that).
Perhaps there is a way to script technological progress? I.e. have just the natural increase, with no option of investing tech points?
I think the devs' rationale for disabling the technology system is that in the world of the novels Westeros appears to be in a sort of technological stasis, stagnant if not outright backward. Unrealistic as the situation is, I'd argue it's important to the apocalyptic feel of the series and may have an in-universe explanation along the lines of earth-shattering cataclysms like the Long Night or the Doom of Valyria obliterating advanced civilisations. Magic and its seeming prevalence could arguably be another factor in Westeros' seemingly glacial tech development. Just the same, it is rather odd that the maesters or similar aren't spearheading some sort of renaissance, considering their staunchly scientific worldview.
In game terms, however, disabling tech serves to deepen the divisions between the distinct regions and cultures in the game without hacking together too many new mechanics or the like. The fingers will always be poor, the wildlings will always be tribals, the iron isles get shit-tons of heavy infantry and ships, unsullied are the best soldiers bar none, etc. etc. Unlike our own world's history (to an extent) Essos and Westeros exist in a fictional universe that has to remain static in some respects to be recognisable and relatable to the world represented in the books.
Well, enough waffling. Just my two cents on why I like the static tech level.
In game terms, however, disabling tech serves to deepen the divisions between the distinct regions and cultures in the game without hacking together too many new mechanics or the like. The fingers will always be poor, the wildlings will always be tribals, the iron isles get shit-tons of heavy infantry and ships, unsullied are the best soldiers bar none, etc. etc. Unlike our own world's history (to an extent) Essos and Westeros exist in a fictional universe that has to remain static in some respects to be recognisable and relatable to the world represented in the books.
Well, enough waffling. Just my two cents on why I like the static tech level.
I think that's a misconception popularized often by those who misinterpret parts of Martin's lore, driving it out of context or approaching it in a wrong manner. There is nothing in the ASoIaF that leads to that conclusion apart from words about several myths and other stories, which are a result of normal historical collective memory depicted through oral tradition. We have in history a huge number of examples and in those cases the historians interpret the facts through separating origins and later layers (for an instance, as Homerology advances we discover that the Homeric Epics give us less and less information about the late Mycenaean era and more and more rather of the ancient Greek Dark Age).
AFAIK there are even indications that there is such a thing as progress within the books. Although this might be a too historically distant example, when the First Men came to Westeros they were a primitive mounted people that had no knowledge of iron working. I can understand that the specifics of the world of ASoIaF necessarily mean that there is less technological progress - such as the existence of magic, the technological stagnating role of the Maesters (with knowledge being concentrated in one single institution that acts as if it has a key to it, limiting it to an actually very small group of people - it can be clearly said why The Citadel is keeping Westeros <frozen> and some truth found in Qyburn's bitter statements, if we already cannot sympathize due to ethical problems) and the cataclysmic reality that they live in with a brutal climate.
Another matter is one that the mod doesn't cover a huge amount history; it doesn't really go back. But the world has really not been totally stagnant for the period the mod covers either. I recall mentions of things such as structural engineering inovations and let us not forget Cercei's ships which clearly depict technological progress. Heck, if we follow Qyburn even the pseudoscience has shown results.
Writing this post almost made me convince against my OP. :blink: To correct myself a little, I would rather like it re-enabled, however to be static (is that even moddable?) and change only as a result of events (perhaps both ways around).
P. S. I'd like also to point out what some of the so-called "technologies" that exist in the vanilla version of the game. They're legalism, majesty, tolerance. My personal perseption of the tab has never been like something in the Civ or similar games, but one that reflects the passage of time and the arrival of new generations who are just slightly a bit philosophically different than their predecessors.
It is not that hard to make a retinue mod. You can set it up entirely by the defines with retinue being given by realm size, or by buildings rather than technology. All you would need to do is implement the generic retinues and bobs your uncle...
There isn't really any sign that technological progress of the sort that would affect the balance of power in Westeros - i.e. the kind of stuff that the CK2 technology improvements depict - occurs, though. It's not so much a technological stasis as it is a complete stasis - cultural, political, etc. Or a near-complete one. Kings do manage to get things done occasionally - build new cities or new kinds of ships, or a dragon pit, or found a road network (would be nice to have that decision implemented somehow).
If I had some 3-4 years of Summer, then 20 years of Winter, I probably wouldn't get a whole lot of technological research done either?
Medieval Stasis is one common trope - and at least Martin attempted to justify it.
Medieval Stasis is one common trope - and at least Martin attempted to justify it.
20 years? Tyrion was born in a winter that lasted for 3 years and that was considered very long...
P. S. Are the seasons implemented in the mod? I haven't fully noticed trying out the latest versions...
I think the technology of Westeros has been relatively static for a long time. In fact, whenever history is mentioned it always seems as if things used to be grander. But then again, they had magic in the old days.
Could the technology system be used in another way? In some way that does make sense for GoT? It doesn't have to literally be about technology...just wondering if the mechanical system can be repurposed.
I'm not sure about graphical winter, but yes they are. Winters can last for a few years as well as summers. Winter's are represented as a levy and production hit on counties.
Exactly...that's what I was aiming at.
For now the grayed out butten really reeks of the "beta status".
It is a beta...
And what would you have us use it for? Technology in ASOIAF is stagnant and in the period the mod takes place technology is not going to change. The major changes have been from the two huge migrations of the First Men and the Andals brining Bronze and Steel.
Can it be removed instead of disabled (instead of a grayed-out button)?
Yeah, I guess you are right, however technological progress always comes with minor changes (they are major only if we compare vast periods of time) and it is evident that it exists in Martin's world (Cersei's ships may be a good example).
That is the most removed it can be.
Your example is pointless as ships only serve the transport focus and we cannot independently mod the number of troops carried by different ships.
The technology of the world of Game of Thrones has been roughly the same for nearly 8,000 years. The only innovations they have made is in writing. Otherwise, it is the same. Steel has existed back then and still does. They don't have any steam technology whatsoever. It is like what Europe would had been if gunpowder was never introduced via the Mongols.