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Balthagor

BattleGoat Studios
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Aug 11, 2007
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www.supremeruler.com
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There have been so many changes for update 3 that we'd like to enlist more forum users for testing before calling it "final". We also have a few more changes we plan to add to this update before the official version change. So for those who would like to start testing, here is the link

Update3Beta2

Please take note of the changelog. You will need version 7.2.2 or 7.2.45 to install this.

7.2.59 Tester Readme

Known Issues
- loading a savegame,starting time may take longer as all paths are re-calculated. This is especially noticable in games where there are hundreds of units actively moving.
- Boats still get stuck in “inlets”. (Baltimore, Bay of Fundy, etc.)
- In some cases after regions fall, problems with minister Garrison control
- When liberating a region the relations don’t change as expected
- Queuing units from “all production” will not always divide properly between available build locations
- Some scripted events are not properly triggered
- Some GUI buttons can get stuck in some cases after using the Branch filters.
- Some espionage related bugs
- If you use the Global Rules of Engagement and push “Lock from Minister AI to every unit that will cause spies to stop working

UPDATES

Update 3 beta – September 2012

Changes 7.2.59
- New Consumer demand formulas - more GDP tie-in; Roads/Rails for fuel use (was in 7.2.45 actually, missed in change log)
- Oil prices for high GPD adjusted (Modern World mod) and should behave better
- Pathing improved
- Less idle units over long term
- Better AI control of defcon & buildup
- Minister will reduce preparedness/alert level properly once wars are over
- More N Korea and N Vietnam balance adjustments (allies can still disrupt balance)
- Commodity markets improved
- Economies for long term games improved
- Map changes for Suez and Panama. These canal colonies set for international transit.
- Spies work in games without Fog of War
- Naval invasion preparations now cancelled when enemies all die
- Long-idle units return to reserve more often (including air and naval and leg)
- More tests and fallbacks to prevent clone unit bug
- More use of AI Assistance requests when units destroyed
- More use of Naval AI Assistance requests
- AI war declaration consideration of 'allied with superpower' now considers colonies too
- Formula that ties demand to GDP adjusted
- Fixed Bug with DAR calculation based on domestic prices
- Improved formula for calculation of production cost related to gdp
- Adjusting social spending thresholds for minister
- DAR hit for high domestic prices is increased
- wmrelrate increases over time (affects some facility/tech cost formulas)
- wmbasegdpc increases with world inflation (affects formuals)
- wm base cost of resources increases with world inflation
- socialdefault baselines increase over time
- Regional cost of resource production affect by world pricing
- Increased facility maintenance costs calculations
- Parents now provide more support to colonies in need
- Social costs increased esp for higher levels of quality & richer nations
- Rich nations expect higher social values
- New variable in wmdata: socadj for adjustment of social expectations/costs
- AIParameters updated.

Changes 7.2.45:

- Income and Expense reports in Treasury completely redesigns
- Income and Expense totals shown per department
- Spending shortfalls only shown when shortfalls exist
- Scorecard shows flag for “region is target of destabilization”
- Header will sort to find regions the player is targeting
- 25 more leaders faces (all leaders into the ‘80s)
- Map Fixes
- BattleZones touched up
- Balance reviewed based on engine changes
- Various fixes
- Tech Tree updated
- Equipment File updated
- Orbat fixes
- Updates to events
- Unit Trade - default to "trade where located";
-Scenario lobby option “Diplomatic Merchant Marine”, off turn will “magic transport”.
- Regions more likely to trade goods
- Allies will offer money more often (but less money)
- Approval negative effects minimized for players "in sphere"
- Military upgrade maintenance costs reduced / inflation adjustments
- Colonies auto-send their surplus to their parents daily (no cost / no trade)
- Colonies will max production, and not sell to market (send to parent instead)
- Fixed issue with certain minister priorities - rewrote internal priority handling
- Fixed garrison reduction issues (will still take time, though)
- GUI Crash bug resolved
- Naval "AI Request" message flood bug resolved (memory "leak")
- Adjusted use of interception-AI requests for stationary units
- Liberate Colony added for Single Player
- Neutral Exit flag inherited by merchant marine
- New Consumer demand formulas - more GDP tie-in; Roads/Rails for fuel use
- Start of game world GDP calculation fixed
- Power no longer stocked over multiple days
- Improved AI / Minister handling of Social Spending, Research spending
- Start of game world GDP calculation fixed again
- Adjustments to social spending when no money (AI/Minister)
- Colonies will slash research spending unless they are rich
- Exit Rule bugs fixed - units on 'neutral exit' will not get shot at; will use ports
- Fixes to trade w/o transit issues
- Air Patrol / Fuel bug fixed
- Tax / GDP Formula bug fixed
- Sphere changes when declaring war on other sphere member adjusted
- Handling of colonies of defeated player fixed in MP
- GUI items; handling of 'excluded flag' by AI updated
- Supply contribution of port is now based on largest value instead of prior order
- Fix bug in reduction-of-supply calculations
- Fixed Relationship change issues when liberating region
- Garrisons are eliminated when land changes hands
- AI war declarations on same "leaning" sphere increasingly possible
- State department Region Select now with Theatre headers
- Reserve and Production facility select now with Theatre headers
- Adjusted quick-exit path (Window X or alt-F4) to try to prevent exit-crash
- Fixed cache creation, memory bugs
- Aircraft landed on carrier units will no longer be shot at if sea but no land transit
- Diplo trade of units from base locked in colony should hopefully work
- Minister will no longer recommend research that is already in queue
- More on parent/colony exit rule fixes
- Fixed some goods reporting: diplo trades now show up in 'trades' total (but only quantity, not dollar value)
- Fuel/Ammo given to transit units w/o regional supply now reported in demand/use
- Adjusted save write buffer size for large unit counts (should resolve 1K save crash)
- Optimization - reduce RAM use
- Optimization - reduce savegame size
- More error checks in code
- AI unit scrap code will reduce more types of leg infantry, incl cavalry
- AI players will no longer send units to support a colony request (but may still respond to calls for assistance from parent units)
- on-map graphic events no longer queued when game is minimized
- More Merchant Marine fixes
- AI Merchant Marine that are completely lost will auto-scrap
- Performance adjustments:
- Units unable to sea transp to base will not try repeatedly
- Resupply is no longer done per slice; up to 120 slices at once if idle
- Units retreating to safe areas no longer need to go back to a base
- Reduced occurrence of "traffic jams" due to stack size pause & allies in the way
- findclosestbase routine improved to use seed pathing to check if reachable
- Possible issues with Resupply rate of in-reserve units fixed (minor)
- Various other small fixes
 
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Just an FYI. You need to start a fresh game as 7.2.59 does funky things to 7.2.45 saves. Ex. is as U.S. I was running a $500M+ budget surplus before and a $160M deficit after.

Edit #1: Played for a few hours as the U.S. First impression is that the economy is even more out-of-whack then previous beta version. Market price of all commodities is close to half production cost or below. Immediately upon starting, the GDP per capita started a meteoric rise of a $1000 is just 3 short months resulting in huge increases in inflation and employment. Water consumption was adjusted again. Better, but IMO is now a little too high. Could stand to be adjusted to between 20-30% lower to bring it in line with other products.

Edit #2: Got a few more hours in. Still trying to figure out the new economic formula. Have to play at Normal speed so I can keep an close eye on the U.S. budget situation, social costs are trying to run me into the red. GDP has slowed its rapid rise. Was gaining $10 per day for 6 months straight. This has caused inflation to rise to 16% and unemployment to fall to 2.6%. World market prices have yet to recover with the exception of Timber and Electricity. With the commodity prices remaining depressed, a lot of countries are racking up debt quickly. From the change-log, it is stated that a lot of the economic variables are tied into DAR now, which is hovering around 33%, far lower than in the previous versions. On a side note, I am wondering where N. Vietnam is getting all of those gurrillas and arty's. Are they poping out of thin air?

Edit #3: The way that they have adjusted the economic demands and DAR effects to scale with the GDP is a step in the right direction. However, it is my opinion that it could stand to be scaled back. I'm still only testing with the U.S. and I've noticed that I've consistantly struggled to maintain a balance. Over a year in and I am finding it difficult to maintain the U.S. budget in the black, this is in direct opposition to previous versions as when playing the U.S. you always had more money then you knew what to do with. Social spending is close to recommended but I have had to lower it several times now to keep from deficit spending. Even with high social spending and fairly cheap commodities, the DAR won't get very high, still hovering around 35%, this is a problem.
 
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Hi, I've been testing the game the last few days, and thought I'll share my impressions so far. My testing game is a new start with China, and the game is with medium difficulty settings, very high hot relations, no units start and current year is 1962, so it's still pretty early.

Firstly, a few questions about patch notes. Social expectations and world inflation were mentioned, but where can I see those? It would be really helpful to see what my people are really expecting, like more social services, lower taxes or what?

Then to the game itself. I've had a hard time figuring out how new social services model works. It seems to suck out all the money no matter what I do ( heh, working like in the real world I suppose, but anyways :) ). Like if I decrease my government budget to make some extra money, in a few days all that money goes to social services, even I made no changes there at all. Same thing with trades. Social services spending jumps up and down making sure that treasury doesn't increase too much. I have deactivated all the ministers, but it seems that they are still doing something in the background. This is not a really big problem, since it just seems to balance the budget, not throwing me in red or anything, but quite annoying anyway.

Diplomatic deals do not seem to work when it's for longer period of time. Instant deals come to treasury correctly, but if it's a deal where other country pays x sum every day, only thing I seem to get is extra production costs. No money at all. At least it's nowhere to be seen in the trade received section in the daily income tab, and normal trade income doesn't increase either. Also there's still lots of negative value diplomatic offers from countries I'm not allied with. Offered 100M, requested 200M and the like. Just because they like me, does not mean I like them. So I still hope you could add some filters to diplomatic offers later. And allies could at least offer close to what it costs to produce the goods now that production costs really matter, and not just ask everything for half price. This is not a critical problem either, and more like annoyance. I can always just ignore diplomatic offers.

Next there's production costs. For example, if oil's market price is 50$ per barrel and my production costs are 45$, and then I bulk sale and market price drops to 45$, my production costs also go down. Is this supposed to happen? This combined with how sales sliders ( min $/U ) work makes this really a nightmare to keep up with. If I first set my sliders that I want to make 10% profit, then in 2 weeks time the sliders might be at -20% if prices have raised...or even worse, I don't sell anything at all, because prices have dropped, but are still profitable because my production costs dropped also. So is it possible to add an option to tie the sales slider to percent value of production costs, not the dollars? IMO that would make trade much easier to handle, because production costs are moving so much now.

Good thing about the new economy model is, that high tech level countries are now able to export too. I checked Canada, and only goods where their production costs are higher than market prices are agrigulture, fresh water, metal ore and military goods ( prices of military goods is really low for everybody, but that's probably because I had a no-units start ). The bad thing is, that most countries have double digits inflation, and production costs are really high for poorer countries. For example, consumer goods production costs for India is 12483$ and 13163$ for Canada. Respective GDP/c and inflation rates are 518$/8.2% and 19095$/15.3%. Tech level difference naturally is quite big. Probably this is as close as we can get, since in the game car is a car, no matter if it's a new Ferrari or old T-Ford. I agree with foothill though, that fresh water formula could be tweaked down a little. In general, the current model still seems to be working ok, and almost every country still has healthy economy ( no big debts or treasury in red etc. ). Apart from fresh water, only thing I can think of is to tone down inflation a bit.

Space race seems to be much tougher now than it used to. I've played dirty and bought everything I could, but still only barely leading. In a fair game one of the superpowers would most likely win. I'm currently researching manned space flight, USA is few months behind me and USSR is right behind them. At this rate both might even get their man on the moon during this decade. Hard to say which one first, because they are almost even. This is a nice improvement.

Military AI seems to calculate it's chances against colonies correctly now. AI USSR did not DOW Gibraltar in a no-units start, and in general wars seem to be much rarer now. With very high world volatility, there has been only very few wars, except the scripted ones. I don't know if this is a good or bad thing, I'll leave that to those that are more familiar with the military aspects of the game. Speaking of wars, North Korea actually won without any outside help and still exists. NV also won SV, but then Laos declared war and won, so North Vietnam is no more. I wasn't allied to North Vietnam, so I don't know if NATO helped or not. Also thousands of idle mechant marines are not floating around anymore, so I suppose AI is calling them back correctly now. This is all good stuff.

Now game is also really fast ( like 5 seconds per day ), and in general I think this is a big step forward. Few minor fixes here and there, and this game is golden. Only bigger gripe I still have left, is that the cold war itself does not look so good. USSR sphere is totally fallen apart already, even USSR has not been in any wars and is doing pretty ok. Population and GDP/c are rising, nice army and no debts or anything, but it has much lower DAR than USA ( 21% vs 30% ). Currently it looks like that USSR AI just have zero chances to compete against USA, and supporting sphere leader is almost impossible too. I mean, if I'd support USSR current ruling party now, the price tag is 456M daily. It's actually cheaper to support opposition ( "only" 227M daily in USSR, and 412M against USA ), and I really don't get the logic behind this. I also made a quick test game with USSR myself, and human can probably still compete against USA just fine, but AI could really use some help. It kinda kills the whole cold war idea, if it's over after 10 years of game start. If human plays the USA, then this probably happens even faster.
 
Whoa, had to make a new post. I think I've now witnessed a real world depression in the game too. Around mid 1964 world markets really crashed, but I have no idea why. True free fall of almost every commodity happened. Consumer goods dropped from around 28k to 8k, and industry goods from 29k to 5k in about 6 months until crash finally slowed down and prices started to stabilize. At one point I think I was the only one who's GDP/c was not dropping. USA has lost about 2k GDP/c already and is still falling slowly. Canada lost about the same and now has 28B debt, but now it's GDP/c is increasing again. Also USSR was hit pretty hard. If this was not a glitch and really a designed game feature, I have to admit it was pretty impressive.
 
Just a suggestion, I think that the tie-in between world market price and domestic production price should be removed. I don't really see a relation between how much it costs to produce water and the price it fetches on the market. This link has some unforseen effects.
 
Whoa, had to make a new post. I think I've now witnessed a real world depression in the game too. Around mid 1964 world markets really crashed, but I have no idea why. True free fall of almost every commodity happened. Consumer goods dropped from around 28k to 8k, and industry goods from 29k to 5k in about 6 months until crash finally slowed down and prices started to stabilize. At one point I think I was the only one who's GDP/c was not dropping. USA has lost about 2k GDP/c already and is still falling slowly. Canada lost about the same and now has 28B debt, but now it's GDP/c is increasing again. Also USSR was hit pretty hard. If this was not a glitch and really a designed game feature, I have to admit it was pretty impressive.

I think it sounds disappointing, as communist systems were generally not affected by western economic cycles. Can the AI handle the depression in the long-term though?
 
My game is at like 1990 now, and I have witnessed several crashes now. Well, I crash the markets myself now, because there seems to be some glass ceiling effect around 48k GDP/c, that communist ( or my 0% tax & high domestic prices ) economy model can't handle anymore, and AI seems to be handling crashes with quite low success rates. For example Canada, Australia and UK usually recover faster than I do, but then again several democracies like USA and France has been hit quite hard, and are about to collapse ( I hope they go to dictatorship in their next elections, since their DAR is only like 19% and dropping ). USSR went belly up a long time ago, and they have like 40M population and -4000B ( or something ridiculous ) treasury. Different models seem to take crashes bit differently. In democracy GDP/c drops faster, but free fall stops sooner. All communist countries are now quite poor and losing population, so I think communist countries really can't handle those crashes.
 
There seems to be a bug with unit design trading. I as China bought F12A Blackbird design from USA, but it's not visible in the build menu. I also tested, and every other interceptor design USA currently has can be build in China. Also it can't be about techs, because I have already researched every possible tech. I don't know if the bug is that I can't build it even I have the design, or that it shows in the USA interceptors designs that can be bought.

As a sidenote, how on earth I drop those F12A Blackbirds that constantly violate my airspace. My vampires can't touch them, and my navy can just barely scratch them. About 20 DDG-05 Gans ( High air attack 6, which is highest that China can get from any weapon ) run out of ammo before 1 Blackbird even gets to 1/2 health. My laser air defense does nothing to those planes either. I even have advanced radars next to Hong Kong, and those planes come from there and just run circles around Guangzhou. Isn't that kind of bad game design, that some medium tech plane is so overpowered that nothing of the highest tech level weapons can harm it. Also why justification for war does not increase above 25% despite constant violations of air space?
 
When it comes to the SR-71 Blackbird, it is understandable that nothing can shoot it down. In reality, the SR-71 was designed to fly at very-high altitudes (40,000+) at speeds greater than Mach 3. At those speeds, any missile fired from a lower altitude or from the ground would have run out of fuel long before it could close the gap. The SR-71 was the pinnacle of American reconnaissance aircraft technology, only to be replaced by high-resolution imaging from orbital satellite platforms.
 
I would assume the main reason for decommissioning the blackbird were economic reasons and it being obsolete with new spy satellites.
 
I would assume the main reason for decommissioning the blackbird were economic reasons and it being obsolete with new spy satellites.

They were phenominally maintenance intensive, as well. Something idiotic like 1,200 man-hours per hour in the air, which made it quite difficult to keep the highly classified plane and its capabilities secret (if you have to have 30 guys working round-the-clock shifts to let it fly a few times per week, just imagine the chances of NONE of them letting something slip.)
 
Why cant you release the newest test build via steam?
I know how it works.
I'm posting my response in this thread since it's part of this topic.

We can't get Steam to post the full version of Supreme Ruler 2020. I don't see us having better success with a beta version of an update. I expect it to be a challenge to get the <ACTUAL> update posted to Steam.
 
Hi, in my current game I noticed that small high GDP/c countries are making big deficit. I opened the game in multiplayer, and checked Qatar, and it seems that facilities costs do not scale very well with high GDP/c. For example Qatar has 24M daily income from taxes and domestic sales ( 95% tax rate and population of 71 k ), and 122 M daily expenses. 86 M of those expenses is from facilities cost. They have 1 petrol sm, air field and sea pier so the price tag seems too high. I also tested it by destroying every other building, and building a new coal plant ( electricity is one of the few commodities they can actually sell for profit ), but facilities cost is higher than what they can get from selling the electricity, even their profit margin would be about 250$ per MWh.

qatar_cold_war_2.jpg

Also it's worth noting that game displays or calculates expenses incorrectly. I let the game run for few days to see if it gets fixed, but nope.

qatar_cold_war.jpg

Also it seems wrong that countries can have negative treasury? When they can't get any more loans, their treasury should stay at zero, not go to negative. Now for example Qatar has about -153,000 M treasury. Bankrupt countries also seem to end up with ever increasing GDP/c, even they can't fund any social spending, have 95% tax rate and have shortage of everything. If you give money to these countries so that they have positive treasury, then their GDP/c starts to drop fast, so something must be wrong here.

PS: I hope you can see the attachments, I have no idea if I added them correctly :)
 
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BTW, Posted on our dev forum;

George Geczy said:
I'm still catching up on some of the discussions and feedback here, but I wanted to post with some updates on our current schedule.

We plan to release one more beta version of Update 3 - the "Release Candidate" version - on November 16th.

After that, depending upon feedback and issues found, we should be ready to push the update into the auto-updaters and send the image to Paradox to forward to Steam.

It is unfortunate that Steam users don't have the ability to easily load up the Update 3 test versions, I wish there was a better way we could do that, but the Steam eco-system enforces limitations and challenges.

The extra time taken for these beta-releases of Update 3 has allowed us to add a few more things to the update than originally planned, including the economic updates, pathing improvements, extra performance improvements, etc, so hopefully the trade off of the delay with the features is worthwhile for most people. There's still a list of some items to add and some items to fix for the November 16th release, and then we should be able to put this one to bed.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

-- George.