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BurningEGO said:
I am not in this game but i have to agree with Aladar, that when certain nations get this ubber (or certain nations disapear from the map for some reason), the game becomes very boring. At least, for me, as well.

You are excused for not knowing the basic philosophy of this game, i.e. to fight as good as you can until the end of the game or until you are in a hopeless situation, bound to end up last.

However, you are not excused for your fallacy of understanding the basic philosophy of all gaming, i.e. to fight as good as you can until the end of the game or until you are in a hopeless situation, bound to end up last. ;)

This basically has to do with the fact that you yourself, regardless of the size of your ego, cannot win them all. And that is true for all competitors. We must all came to grips with this tragic truth of life. When you have accepted this and begun thinking of what demands the rest of the gamers may have on you when the golden medal is out of reach you will hopefully soon recognise the fact that to achieve the most happiness from gaming for all participants it is essential that all involved try to do their best all the time. Because the sweetness of victory turns sour in the mouth if the opponents start giving up although the outcome is still in doubt. No victory, nor a relative success (as e.g. cutting through the field in the finish, perhaps advancing from 10th to 3rd place), is as sweet as the one achieved versus worthy opponents, those that are good and do their best. You can ask any competitor about that. Why not ask yourself?

As for a game with some über nations and some lesser.... well that is what happens all the time. The usual setup is strong FRA, SPA and OE and some medium nations and some weak ones. Now, when this default setup is broken by one or more competitor, some people, like you apparently, start believing that the game is "broken" and you sometimes lose the interest in the campaign. This lack in your understanding, that what you have before your eyes is not an a priori less entertaining situation, but merely a different one, is a serious threat to campaigns. For the benefit of the community it would be advisable if you and other players that think like this simply changed your mind and recognised the fact that almost all scenarios can be played and be full of game joy. You just need the ability and will to adjust yourself to the situation.

In this game we just exactly did. POR grew enormously and was by far the strongest nation, not least because of his military skill. You yourself would probably have stated that the game was "broken" and suggested a restart or something similar. However, that was not what we did. Saxony, Brabant, Naples, Albania and Moldavia instead joined forces to fight Portugal (and most often Scotland). We fought for a 100 years, with only 5 years truces after each war, with one of us, Naples, even bleeding to death and being in a hopeless situation and thus abandoned. We all wanted him still in the game because we highly approved of his attitude to the game and thus he continued in China. And do you know, after these 100 years we finally stood as victors. Portugal gave up, at least for the moment, his bid for supremacy and gave up large chunks of lands.

That was what we achieved. Because we are fighters that do not give up (well, at least most of us, one of us gave up shortly before the end when the outcome was still in doubt).

In this game all small nations have admirably adjusted to the situation and I have heard no complaints from them merely because they are midgets in terms of influence, standard power or power points. Excellent chaps to play games with.

Since we broached this subject (on über nations) in your own Tuesday game you know my view on that game as well. In that game I entered as a small weak Sweden. There are 3 (or possibly 4) real biggies. Burgundy, Austria and the Ottos (aided by your Mughals). Well, I will take great joy in this game (if I survive). I will try and do my best to improve my position. It will be very dangerous to act in either direction for me, I must play very skilful. It is a real challenge. And Ego, if I fail with my challenge, what will I do then.... Give up? No, no. That is what some would do but not me. I would redefine my aim, prolly setting up a lesser aim, and then start planning for a comeback. As long as there is life their is hope, as the Swedish proverb goes. :)

That's me in a nutshell. What are you?
 
Absolut said:
Yay! :)

The thing about skillful play to get him down can be discussed though, three of the best nations in the world against poor Portugal and to some extent poor Scotland. :(

You destroyer of joy :D

But the truth is of course that the reason we won was more a question of quantity than quality :eek:o
 
FAL said:
Lyko and Tonio, your signature is too long.

Forum rule is that your signature should be composed of the default font size or smaller and should be 10 lines maximum (including lines of spaces) when viewed at 1152 x 864, and with the "User post bit set left". That means the option to display user information on the left of the post rather than the top of the post.

which way my signature is too long ?
 
A BUG IN THE POWER FORMULA

If we study the different aspects of power, as defined in this game, and their relation to inflation we can see two groups.

1. THOSE THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH INFLATON
a) MP
b) morale, navy and land
c) techs
d) COTs
e) fortresses

2. THOSE THAT HAVE
That is the rest. And these are the ones that we estimate in ducats, in contrast to those in the former group.
It is
a) income
b) treasury
c) navies
d) armies
e) shipyards
f) manus
g) CCs

------------

If you have say an inflation of 10% the value of each item in group 2 are presently divided by 1.1. Say you have an income of 1000d. Then from power point view that income is worth only 1000/1.1. Same for manus, say they are "worth" 1000d, then again we divide 1000 by 1.1

Now I have thought more about this. When talking of real money, i.e. income and treasury, this method is of course brilliant. If player a has 1000d in his treasury and 0% inflation and player B also has 1000d but 10% inflation, then obviously player A can buy more power for his 1000d than can player B. But now comes the bug. The rest of the items in group 2 above does not represent money, but things you have bought for money. I.e. you have already had your punishment when you bought it. Player B will have paid more than player A for the same things. Say both bought a manu whose base cost was 1000d. A paid 1000 and B paid 1100. In today's formula both can claim 1000d for that manu but the mistake we make is that we then divide by inflation and B thus ends up with a manu worth only about 900. There is no reason for this. Had we said that he paid 1100 for the manu then we should have divided that by 1.1 to get down to around 1000d again, but we did not do that in the formula, we assessed a value of 1000d for both players.

To be true to the intent of the inflation modifier we therefore need to remove it from 2 c) to 2 g).

I am sorry about this but I hope you will all agree that we really should fix this. And yes, I know that it gives me more PP, but only in relation to what I have, not in relation to how I, or reasonably anyone else, intended this system to work.

------------

If no one objects I will ask Tonio to kindly fix the formulas.
 
BurningEGO said:
I am not in this game but i have to agree with Aladar, that when certain nations get this ubber (or certain nations disapear from the map for some reason), the game becomes very boring. At least, for me, as well.
Well, the fun thing is, there are more than one uber nation. Although they happen to have an eternal alliance, there is still a chance that they would fight each other. At least a greater chance than if there were only one uber nation :).
 
Tonioz said:
which way my signature is too long ?

Switch to 1152 x 864 resolution and set "User post bit" to left.
Go to 'User Cp', go to 'Edit Options' and there you can find it.

Then your signature is 11 lines :)

longsignaturetonio.jpg
 
FAL said:
Switch to 1152 x 864 resolution and set "User post bit" to left.
Go to 'User Cp', go to 'Edit Options' and there you can find it.

Then your signature is 11 lines :)

longsignaturetonio.jpg

ah, FAL, lame left option
You really want to kill Fried II off :)

I`ll make stupiud action tomorrow... looks like i`m busy today
 
Daniel A said:
Max 10 lines Tonio.

Option at top gives 10 lines at 1024*768. But after a month or so, someone disliked it.
 
Regarding the inflation bug in the power formula. Since no one objected I asked Tonio to execute this change. And good old Tonio did it and thus we have the power points slighly different.

What was done was to remove the inflation penalty on: CCs, shipyards, manus, armies and fleets. An example: If nation A have one shipyard (base cost 1000d) and 0% inflation and nation B have one as well and his inflation is 20% then they now get the same power from their resepctive shipyards, as it should be.

Here you can see the old and the new valus. The higher inflation you had the more you of course benefitted from having the bug eliminated.

First row = old PP, 2nd row = new values.

Code:
         ALB     BRA     NA/CH    MOL    POR     SAX     SCO     SKÅ
         RA PP   RA PP   RA PP   RA PP   RA PP   RA PP   RA PP   RA PP
1754     3  66   8  40   6  47   2  97   4  63   1 105   5  59   7  45   
1754     3  66   8  40   6  47   2 101   4  64   1 105   5  61   7  45
 
Last edited:
==============
THE POWER FOR COTs
==============

Now another idea I have had for some time. Well actually it was Tonio who mentioned it a few months ago but for simplicity I scrapped it.


BASICS

The basic idea behind giving PP for owning COTs is that it gives you control of the trade in that CoT and thus you may embargo an opponent and cause him great harm. It is thus a potential weapon you have and by which you can seriously endanger the power of other nations.


OTHER BENEFITS FROM OWNING A COT

That the CoT also give you an extra merchant or two is not relevant since these merchants will give you higher income from trade and thus are represented by the income category of power.


ALL COTs ARE NOT EQUAL

Anyhow, today you get 2 PP for each COT owned. That means that owning the CoT in e.g. Shanghai (total trade value say 500d) gives just as much as owning a Cot in Alaska (total trade value say 50d). This is of course wrong. No player will be hurt much by being embargoed from the Alaska CoT. Thus the power should be in relation to the value of the CoT.

In Tonio's stats these trade values are indeed present. You can see them in parenthesis behind the name of the CoT.


SUGGESTION OF CHANGE

Just now we have 41 COTs owned by humans in our game and thus hand out 82 PPs. Now say we believe that number of PPs is OK. Then we could change the formula to say: for each percent of the world trade you control (by owning the COTs) you get 1 PP. This way we would hand out a little more PPs than today but they would be much more fairly distributed.

We can of course decide to hand out less power points for the feature as well. The reason I chose 1 PP for 1% of the total trade value is merely it is easy to remember and easy for Tonio to implement.


AN EXAMPLE

Let me make an example. Today I get 18 PP for 9 COTs. Their total trade value is around 2100d. Scotland owns six COTs for 12 PP and their total trade value is 2700. Well actually 5 of them have this trade value, the sixth just spawned and has zero trade value (the trade value in the game is not calculated until the first month have passed).

IMO Scotland should get more PP than I do but as it is I get much more than him.


WHAT HAPPENS NEXT

If no one complains I will ask Tonio if he could do this change. I am not sure he will accept because this will not be that simple.


EMBARGOES IN ACTION

From a strict point of view the more embargoes you have vs humans the less valueable should the COTs be, as you have already used your weapon, so to say. But that is perhaps too difficult to implement. Say there are 11 human nations in the game. A simple way to solve it would be to to deduct 10% of your PPs for COTs for each human opponent you have embargoed. I.e. if you have embargoed all of them then you get zero PP for your CCs. Because you have no more embargoing weapon, there is no potential power left in the COTs, only the income stemming from them and that is reflected in the income category for each nation. I believe this will be quite complicated for Tonio to achieve but if no one objects I will ask him about it.
 
EDITS FOR THE SESSION OF SEPTEMBER 21st

As always check for errors.

I must say I am quite perplexed that only three players wrote a narrative in their AAR and that only four players wrote an AAR at all.

----------------------------------------

ALBANIA
1% deflation (no narrative, no request)
Leaders: same (no request)
MT 2.5 (no calculation)

BRABANT
+1700d (no narrative)
Leaders: 4 GEN
MT = 3.8

CHINA
-3 BB
+1700d
Leaders: 3 GEN 1 ADM
MT 2.5

MOLDAVIA
2% deflation
Leaders: 4 GEN
MT = 2.8

PORTUGAL
2% deflation
Leaders: same (no request)
MT = 3.9

SAXONY
1% deflation (no narrative, no request)
Leaders: same (no request)
MT 2.5 (no calculation)

SCOTLAND
1% deflation (no narrative, no request)
Leaders: same (no request)
MT 2.5 (no calculation)

SKÅNE
1% deflation (no narrative, no request)
Leaders: same (no request)
MT 2.5 (no calculation)
 
Daniel A said:
SUGGESTION OF CHANGE

Just now we have 41 COTs owned by humans in our game and thus hand out 82 PPs. Now say we believe that number of PPs is OK. Then we could change the formula to say: for each percent of the world trade you control (by owning the COTs) you get 1 PP. This way we would hand out a little more PPs than today but they would be much more fairly distributed.

We can of course decide to hand out less power points for the feature as well. The reason I chose 1 PP for 1% of the total trade value is merely it is easy to remember and easy for Tonio to implement.

So what youre saying is that if I hold 10 of the CoTs in ToS, which is around 25% (too lazy to calculate the exact percentage) I should get 25 PPs?

If I got this right I agree with you. :p

The reason I didnt write an AAR was that Ive had too much homework and Ive been really tired lately. This is an excuse which is fully acceptable after one has seen Semlans excuse for not writing one, which you by the way accepted. You should not complain about people not writingt their AARs if you first implement a rule saying they are required to write one and then let them break it.
 
Absolut said:
So what youre saying is that if I hold 10 of the CoTs in ToS, which is around 25% (too lazy to calculate the exact percentage) I should get 25 PPs?

If I got this right I agree with you. :p

The reason I didnt write an AAR was that Ive had too much homework and Ive been really tired lately. This is an excuse which is fully acceptable after one has seen Semlans excuse for not writing one, which you by the way accepted. You should not complain about people not writingt their AARs if you first implement a rule saying they are required to write one and then let them break it.

No, Absolut, you seem to misunderstand. The number of COTs will become irrelevant, that is the idea. What I say is that if you own COTs representing X% of the total trade value in the world you will get X power points. If you control Y% you will get Y power points. Very simple.

And I did not complain about the missing AARs, I said I was "perplexed". There is a gratification for writing an AAR and if you try to maximise your power points, as you should, this is an easy way to get them.
 
Absolut said:
The reason I didnt write an AAR was that Ive had too much homework and Ive been really tired lately. This is an excuse which is fully acceptable after one has seen Semlans excuse for not writing one, which you by the way accepted. You should not complain about people not writingt their AARs if you first implement a rule saying they are required to write one and then let them break it.

Oh but then you have to remember that I am only a little child. I do not understand as much as you do Abso.
 
Daniel A said:
No, Absolut, you seem to misunderstand. The number of COTs will become irrelevant, that is the idea. What I say is that if you own COTs representing X% of the total trade value in the world you will get X power points. If you control Y% you will get Y power points. Very simple.

So its the amount of trade/money you get from the different CoTs that counts?

And I did not complain about the missing AARs, I said I was "perplexed". There is a gratification for writing an AAR and if you try to maximise your power points, as you should, this is an easy way to get them.

Well then, I stand corrected. Sorry. :)

Oh but then you have to remember that I am only a little child. I do not understand as much as you do Abso.

When did I say anything about you not understanding as much as me?
 
Absolut said:
When did I say anything about you not understanding as much as me?
You didn't, I did.

Since I am only a little child I do not understand as much as you do. Hence you read the rules and understand that an AAR is necesary, I don't, since I am a small child (under the age of 16 that is). :p

And BTW I did write an AAR, just not a full one.

Now this discussion end.