Text bugs

[unmerged(37840)]

I'm seen claims that certain text can't be fixed for copyright reasons, which might explain some of these bugs. The list of vassals one can create does not display well when that list is large (i. e., in a large empire). When a gift causes no change in relations, the game says relations have slightly improved. Several provinces have different names in pop-up boxes and the game log than on the map--the province just west of Denmark's usual capital is variously called Jylland and Jutland. I think this occurs in one or two East Asian provinces, also. The message when a country accepts an offer of vassalization, "Country X Accepted to Become our Vassal," is ungrammatical. Although it takes two years to build a conscription center, the pop-up help says 1 year and the confirmation message says 6 months.

 

[Owen]

I'm seen claims that certain text can't be fixed for copyright reasons, which might explain some of these bugs.

Not true. The issue is primarily one of having to carry out translations, and this refers to new events really, not to spelling mistakes.

The list of vassals one can create does not display well when that list is large (i. e., in a large empire).

This is true, though I wonder whether it is quite difficult to fix.

When a gift causes no change in relations, the game says relations have slightly improved.

Relations are a float, not an integer, therefore they can slightly improve without any change appearing on the relations screen.

Several provinces have different names in pop-up boxes and the game log than on the map--the province just west of Denmark's usual capital is variously called Jylland and Jutland. I think this occurs in one or two East Asian provinces, also.

The problem here is that the text on the map is graphical and cannot easily be corrected. The province names were wrong and have been corrected in the province.txt file, but Paradox is not able to correct the map itself.

The message when a country accepts an offer of vassalization, "Country X Accepted to Become our Vassal," is ungrammatical.

Well, if you ask AndrewT nicely, he will change the word "accepted" to "agreed", and it will probably appear whenever Johan has time to work on the next beta patch.

Although it takes two years to build a conscription center, the pop-up help says 1 year and the confirmation message says 6 months.

Good spot. CCs did take 1 year until a fairly recent patch.

 

[unmerged(6159)]

The problem here is that the text on the map is graphical and cannot easily be corrected. The province names were wrong and have been corrected in the province.txt file, but Paradox is not able to correct the map itself.

Which is a crappy reason. Understandable the map can't be changed. However, the name in the event effects, pop-ups and so on can be changed. There is no reason why these names should not match the names on the map.

Fine it is true that Szechuan and Sinkiang are reversed on the map. But according to the map those are the names of the provinces on the EUII map. If the provinces were called 'province 314' and 'province 159' on the map everyone would be appalled that they names were wrong in the pop-ups. Well this is every bit as confusing. To claim that switching the names in the pop-up, while leaving the name as they were on the map is 'correcting' the names is questionable at best. As it is it's extremely difficult to keep track of what's going on because you have to keep two sets of names in your head. It's frustrating and it ought to be 'uncorrected' so that the map and the informational reports agree.

In real life Park Place is next to Indiana. But they are miles apart on the Monopoly board.

 

[Owen]

Which is a crappy reason. Understandable the map can't be changed. However, the name in the event effects, pop-ups and so on can be changed. There is no reason why these names should not match the names on the map.

Fine it is true that Szechuan and Sinkiang are reversed on the map. But according to the map those are the names of the provinces on the EUII map. If the provinces were called 'province 314' and 'province 159' on the map everyone would be appalled that they names were wrong in the pop-ups. Well this is every bit as confusing. To claim that switching the names in the pop-up, while leaving the name as they were on the map is 'correcting' the names is questionable at best. As it is it's extremely difficult to keep track of what's going on because you have to keep two sets of names in your head. It's frustrating and it ought to be 'uncorrected' so that the map and the informational reports agree.

In real life Park Place is next to Indiana. But they are miles apart on the Monopoly board.

Isaac, this sounds like a "looking for an argument" post.

I agree, it's debatable whether it's better to have the province names match those on the map, or just to get it as accurate as they can. However, whoever was making the decisions on these things at around about the 1.02 patch decided that the best answer was to get as much correct as possible. I'd be very surprised if you get it changed back.

 

[unmerged(6159)]

Me too

Still I find this incredibly annoying when playing the game, and MattBond has a very good point on this particular issue. I always try to stick up for newbies (when they're right) So I hope I wasn't too provocative.

 

[AndrewT]

I found the Accepted error and changed it to Agreed, although it wasn't qute the sentence given above.

I did find one place where conscription centres were said to take 12 months and I've fixed that, but I don't see anywhere it says 6 months or six months.

 

[unmerged(36024)]

About province names:
Johan still have a tool which create maps. Maybe (slim chance) he redraw a map? And add it to next patch. IMHO it is not much work needed. IT will weight some MBs to download, but fix that pain in the arse with provinces named other than on map.

Well - if not, mapping tool already allow us to edit names on map, so we only need to make sticky thread which point to fixed map.

I myself can do it.
Any suggestions?

 

[AndrewT]

About province names:
Johan still have a tool which create maps. Maybe (slim chance) he redraw a map? And add it to next patch. IMHO it is not much work needed.

Not much work needed? hohoho. In this thread you can read about the efforts of three programmers over nearly two years to merely decrypt how the map is stored and generated. They are only just getting to the stage of being able to edit some parts of it.

 

[unmerged(36024)]

They are only just getting to the stage of being able to edit some parts of it.

Exactly!

All I need is ability to change names on map, not changing province size etc.
This functionality already implemented by almighty great heroes from your-specified thread (not as almighty as Johan, but almighty enough )

So, I already make some changes to my maps. And I can prove this tool is working and game is happy with this maps.

Again, Johan can do it with less effort, but he only have two hands and needed everywhere.

And now, when tool with needed functionality exists - I ask how to deal with this names in most efficient way.
1. Johan puts names in province.csv as on map - ok.
2. Johan makes some edits to map - even better.
3. Someone make patch to province.csv - bad due to incompatibility with next patches
4. Someone change names on map and make this maps available - also ok, till Johan decides to edit the maps (small chance)

Can someone authoritative tell us about first 2 choices.
For other-language EUII - Paradox now release only english patches, so you can release english-only maps as well - am I right?

P.S.: and by "Not much work needed" I mean "Not much work needed for Johan"
Or Johan lost his tool and wait for third-party to make something working?

 

[AndrewT]

I can pretty much guarantee 1. and 2. are out of the question. 3. certainly is - he has said he will not contemplate making province.csv incorrect to match the map. So that leaves 4.

I kinda doubt any maps generated this way will get into official Paradox patches, or betas, but feel free to generate and distribute here if you want.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

Relations are a float, not an integer, therefore they can slightly improve without any change appearing on the relations screen.

1. I have never got a "worse" response to my gift than "slightly improve".

2. I have also read numerous times that a gift can actually hurt the relations, i.e. decrease them (if you have a crappy monarch etc). I am not sure I ever saw it myself.

However, if 1 and 2 are true then Matt is right that the message may be misleading. Perhaps it should be changed to something like: "The relations has at most been marginally changed".

I don't think a big drop in relations as a consequence of a state gift can happen.

 

[Owen]

1. I have never got a "worse" response to my gift than "slightly improve".

OK. I see no problem with "slightly improve" representing the smallest level of increase.

2. I have also read numerous times that a gift can actually hurt the relations, i.e. decrease them (if you have a crappy monarch etc). I am not sure I ever saw it myself.

You have to have a very crappy monarch and very bad luck. I don't definitely remember seeing it happen, so maybe that message about possibly even hurting relations is a hangover from EU1. You'd have to ask Johan.

However, if 1 and 2 are true then Matt is right that the message may be misleading. Perhaps it should be changed to something like: "The relations has at most been marginally changed".

Why bother?

I don't think a big drop in relations as a consequence of a state gift can happen.

Probably not. I'm not sure I follow why that's relevant though.

 

[unmerged(21937)]

Relations can go down with a gift if you have crappy enough monarch and it has a different message informing about that. "Relations have been slightly impaired" or something like that. How to get that you ask? Try those Ottoman genius sultans when you have gone plutocratic.

 

[unmerged(9146)]

I don't think a big drop in relations as a consequence of a state gift can happen.

Yes it can. You will get the message of "our state gift has drastically impaired our relations" and the relations will go, well, drastically down.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

Yes it can. You will get the message of "our state gift has drastically impaired our relations" and the relations will go, well, drastically down.

Fantastic Robin, I have never seen it! But of course, I always am high on the Aristo slider.

Goota try it

 

[Owen]

Maybe I should try it with one of my games as OE from New Order II? I remember twice getting a temporary insanity event that modified my DIP value to -2.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

Why bother?

Probably not. I'm not sure I follow why that's relevant though.

2nd question first. Well, if it was true that a big drop could occur then my suggested text covering this occurence would be wrong.

But now Robin has told us that such an reaction has a text of its own, so my suggested wording appears to be truthful. And that is the answer to you first question: all messages given by the game to the player should be as truthful and clear as possible. That is elementary for me, I am astonished it is not for you The trouble to change the text is very small as I understand (just find the row in text.csv and change it); the main part of the work is to identify the flaw and suggest the solution. And that has now been done.

 

[Owen]

But now Robin has told us that such an reaction has a text of its own, so my suggested wording appears to be truthful. And that is the answer to you first question: all messages given by the game to the player should be as truthful and clear as possible. That is elementary for me, I am astonished it is not for you The trouble to change the text is very small as I understand (just find the row in text.csv and change it); the main part of the work is to identify the flaw and suggest the solution. And that has now been done.

That wasn't my point. My point was that "slightly increased our relations" means the same as "marginally increased our relations". While not quite the same as "marginally changed our relations", I consider it preferable to place the cutoff for deciding which text is to be used at zero, rather than being at some arbitrary small distance from zero that your wording would entail.

 

[unmerged(6147)]

Exactly!

All I need is ability to change names on map, not changing province size etc.
This functionality already implemented by almighty great heroes from your-specified thread...


4. Someone change names on map and make this maps available - also ok, till Johan decides to edit the maps (small chance)

I agree, this should be done. Since it is only a beta release I gather anyone could do the edit using one of our heroe's editors. I am sure that anyone of Inferis and Wisk would be flattered and proud of being allowed to make the first change ever to the map since the release of the game. Not to speak about their personal manager Hive.

And Andrew, this would be good for your health as well . You know how it is nowadays, everytime a newbie comes along complaining about the Sichuan-Xinjang bug you go ..., well what is the correct word... hrm.. what is the name of that yellow fruit... hrm... anyhow, you all know what I mean

 

[Hive]

Johan still have a tool which create maps.

Too bad Paradox won't share it...