That's so lame

[DGuller]

I was playing as Russia in 1.03, and I get an event where a third of my liquor is drunk in transit. Now that my produced liquor goes into stockpile rather than WM, I see my income DOUBLE. Turns out that until my liquor stockpile fills up, all the alcoholics in my country have to buy it from other countries, and pay max tarriffs to me. I saw this exploit mentioned before, but I never realized just how dramatic it is. This is not good for gameplay at all. So, to double my income, I have to CLOSE the liquor factories? This has to be fixed somehow, because it is game ruining and unrealistic, Russia has always made a lot of money by producing alcohol for internal consumption rather than by taxing imported Absolut.

 

[Varyar]

This has to be fixed somehow, because it is game ruining and unrealistic, Russia has always made a lot of money by producing alcohol for internal consumption rather than by taxing imported Absolut.

Well, perhaps Russia didn't put up huge tariffs on foreign booze historically...

Honestly, that's how the game works. You don't really have internal markets, you only have the world market (or at least that is how I percieve it). Also keep in mind that booze bought abroad means money into someone else's pocket, not to mention that high tariffs mean poorer POPs... so there is a downside to it as well.

 

[DGuller]

Well, perhaps Russia didn't put up huge tariffs on foreign booze historically...

Honestly, that's how the game works. You don't really have internal markets, you only have the world market (or at least that is how I percieve it). Also keep in mind that booze bought abroad means money into someone else's pocket, not to mention that high tariffs mean poorer POPs... so there is a downside to it as well.

But don't you think that doubling the income (500 pounds worth) is a bit too much of an effect? Maybe this is just a side effect of bugged income distribution, where the working class alcoholics have the money to buy the booze, I don't know, but this situation certainly is ridiculous.

 

[DGuller]

If this drastic effect is as designed, then there needs to be a sales tax slider so that I can tax homemade liquor as well.

 

[Emre Yigit]

Errrm, as I understand it, the process works as follows:

1. You produce booze

2. You stockpile booze

3. Any excess booze is sold on to the world market

4. Your POPs get first crack at buying it

5. Your POPs try to make up the difference by buying from other booze producers.

6. You earn tariffs (if any) on your "imports"


A silly way of doing things maybe, but the internal market is replicated by (4). Unless you're the world's largest booze producer, producing booze and getting exports revenues and tariffs is the best way to go.

 

[DGuller]

Errrm, as I understand it, the process works as follows:

1. You produce booze

2. You stockpile booze

3. Any excess booze is sold on to the world market

4. Your POPs get first crack at buying it

5. Your POPs try to make up the difference by buying from other booze producers.

6. You earn tariffs (if any) on your "imports"


A silly way of doing things maybe, but the internal market is replicated by (4). Unless you're the world's largest booze producer, producing booze and getting exports revenues and tariffs is the best way to go.

Unfortunately, it doesn't quite work that way. I just looked back at the game, I'm producing around 1 unit of booze a day, which is worth 30 pounds at best. Yet, selling it on the WM costs me 500 pounds in lost tarriffs? It looks like if you're selling even a tiny bit, you automatically lose all the tarriffs on that item, even if the POPs still have to buy 99% of items from somebody else. Also, it is a flat out lie that POPs don't buy something if it's not sold on the world market, the phantom market is still there. The total world production of booze is much less than what Russians are buying each day, based on tarriff income. Yet another place where the patchwork economic system of Victoria comes apart completely.

 

[unmerged(24512)]

A sales tax would solve things.. wouldnt it?

 

[DGuller]

A sales tax would solve things.. wouldnt it?

Only if the tarriffs would be made to work correctly.

 

[Theodotus1]

Only if the tarriffs would be made to work correctly.

Please provide a more-detailed analysis, with data (numbers please), so that we all can see what's wrong.

 

[Derek Pullem]

I was playing as Russia in 1.03, and I get an event where a third of my liquor is drunk in transit. Now that my produced liquor goes into stockpile rather than WM, I see my income DOUBLE. Turns out that until my liquor stockpile fills up, all the alcoholics in my country have to buy it from other countries, and pay max tarriffs to me. I saw this exploit mentioned before, but I never realized just how dramatic it is. This is not good for gameplay at all. So, to double my income, I have to CLOSE the liquor factories? This has to be fixed somehow, because it is game ruining and unrealistic, Russia has always made a lot of money by producing alcohol for internal consumption rather than by taxing imported Absolut.

Did your POPs have a cash reserve?

If so you just drained it.

If they didn't I'm not sure what happened

 

[DGuller]

Please provide a more-detailed analysis, with data (numbers please), so that we all can see what's wrong.

OK, I'm producing .7 liquor per day. If I don't sell it on WM, I'm raking in 500-600 pounds in tarriffs each day, if I sell it, I'm getting 50 pounds. Obviously even when I'm selling, most of the liquor bought is from other countries, yet I'm getting no tarriffs on them.

 

[DGuller]

Did your POPs have a cash reserve?

If so you just drained it.

If they didn't I'm not sure what happened

Nobody has any cash reserve. In any way, I've been financing my RRs that way for three years, so it's obviously not just draining. Sure, some 1000 Slav crafstman devolved, but not big loss compared to extra 500 tarriffs per day.

 

[Derek Pullem]

Send me a save with the high tariff set up to victoria dot bugs at btinternet dot com if you could please.

 

[DGuller]

Send me a save with the high tariff set up to victoria dot bugs at btinternet dot com if you could please.

Sent.

 

[Derek Pullem]

Problem is not sustainable. Tariffs are lower when stockpiling liquor. Circa 50

Selling stockpile the tariff income rises to circa 300 for a few days then falls to 70ish

I'm not sure what happens when you offload 700 liquor on to the market. My suspicion is that you are getting a tariff income from the stockpile when you sell it - but I'm not sure where the money comes from. Need a few more tests to work out exactly why you get a boosted tariff and not tax take.

Suspicion is that you only get tax income on production not on stockpile reduction. So that stockpiling reduces tax income and you get it back when you sell as tariff. But its late /early and I haven't bottomed it out

 

[DGuller]

Problem is not sustainable. Tariffs are lower when stockpiling liquor. Circa 50

Selling stockpile the tariff income rises to circa 300 for a few days then falls to 70ish

I'm not sure what happens when you offload 700 liquor on to the market. My suspicion is that you are getting a tariff income from the stockpile when you sell it - but I'm not sure where the money comes from. Need a few more tests to work out exactly why you get a boosted tariff and not tax take.

Suspicion is that you only get tax income on production not on stockpile reduction. So that stockpiling reduces tax income and you get it back when you sell as tariff. But its late /early and I haven't bottomed it out

What tariff do you get when you just load the game? It should be in the 600 range.

 

[Derek Pullem]

I need more time to sort this out - was getting some odd results. There is something strange happening when a stockpile is dumped.

I'm not getting 600 tariff ever - sometimes as high as 400 (this is a clean install of Vicky 1.03) but it doesn't last.

 

[EUnderhill]

Dumping stockpile lowers the price -more POPs can afford to import it, thus a boost in tariffs?

 

[DGuller]

I need more time to sort this out - was getting some odd results. There is something strange happening when a stockpile is dumped.

I'm not getting 600 tariff ever - sometimes as high as 400 (this is a clean install of Vicky 1.03) but it doesn't last.

Don't dump, this probably confounds the investigation, just sell off a unit or two, then move the sell order back to >1000. My original problem has nothing at all to do with dumping, when I did sell liquor, it was .75 units a day, nothing significant. Also, let my save keep going for a couple of months at the beginning without changing trafiffs, it takes a while for economy to fully boot up when you load a game in Victoria. If you still don't get a consistent 500 tariff income, then I'll play around some more on my PC when I'll get home.

 

[EUnderhill]

Don't dump, this probably confounds the investigation, just sell off a unit or two, then move the sell order back to >1000. My original problem has nothing at all to do with dumping, when I did sell liquor, it was .75 units a day, nothing significant. Also, let my save keep going for a couple of months at the beginning without changing trafiffs, it takes a while for economy to fully boot up when you load a game in Victoria. If you still don't get a consistent 500 tariff income, then I'll play around some more on my PC when I'll get home.

Not playing at work?? Good man!