The 16th Luftwaffe... im having SERIOUS issues with it

[Hawk8762]

I'm at the point now where I feel confident as, more or less, every battlegroup vs, more or less, every battlegroup

EXCEPT the 16th Luftwaffe
My win rate vs these guys is a flat ZERO
While EVERY other battlegroup has an inherent weakness to take advantage of, a well micro'd 16th line is literally impossible to penetrate, and very little can be done to stop it creeping forward.

3 star 88's fill in the defensive line against infantry, armor, and air EXTREMELY effectively
The only practical counter is artillery, BUT, they get their own. So you end up in an artillery duel, and considering the insane HP of 88 crews, chances are you wont take them out before you get your own artillery killed. So while you are investing more and more into artillery hoping to kill 88's (none of which contributes to your own line) he is simply building an array of 88's faster than you can hope to kill them (all of which DO contribute to a defensive line)

In simplest forms, the amount of effort and skill needed to BREACH a 16th line is SIGNIFICANTLY greater than the skill needed to hold a 16th line.

Frankly, I'm boycotting this division, and I will not allow it in games I host
It simply feels unfair and broken
Its is simply NOT fun to play against

 

[Gilmund]

The 16th Luftwaffe is extra weak in A phase. The worst decision against 16th Luftwaffe is to wait.
Don't let him build his array of 88's, you have to take the ground before B phase and if possible kill the two phase A 88's, he doesn't have much else support fire at that time.
Isolate and kill the dishartened infantry.

 

[Hawk8762]

The 16th Luftwaffe is extra weak in A phase. The worst decision against 16th Luftwaffe is to wait.
Don't let him build his array of 88's, you have to take the ground before B phase and if possible kill the two phase A 88's, he doesn't have much else support fire at that time.
Isolate and kill the dishartened infantry.

I disagree with that
They get both 88's AND artillery in A phase
That's already starting the downward trend

 

[fufubear]

You have to spam armored artillery. Things like sextons, priests, m12s. Regular artillery will be killed by their 122s or the 76 dual purpose guns.

This is a very boring division to play against.

 

[Hawk8762]

You have to spam armored artillery. Things like sections, priests, m12s. Regular artillery will be killed by their 122s or the 76 dual purpose guns.

This is a very boring division to play against.

Which I don't have in some battlegroups
Needing such a SPECIFIC counter seems a bit unfair overall

 

[fufubear]

Which I don't have in some battlegroups
Needing such a SPECIFIC counter seems a bit unfair overall

The only divisions that don't have any of those are airborne and 2ID. 2ID is fine because they can spam 105s and they get the very good priest DD. Airborne isn't even a good choice against 16th Luftwaffe since you can't use your main weapon. Generally if you can take those platforms you should because the armor will protect them from counterbattery or airstrikes

 

[Gilmund]

I disagree with that
They get both 88's AND artillery in A phase
That's already starting the downward trend

Whats i'm saying is this arty and these two 88's are very expensive in A phase for the points flow and do not give any ground and you have a 10m window to make enormous ground at the beginning once you have disabled the first 88's. Play the 16th Luftwaffe, you'll see this deck is very tricky to play in A phase.
To me you have to work on the 16th Luftwaffe weaknesses which are basically :
- disheartened infantry, you should win nearly all the infantry engagements except the ones with the pioneers, hide your inf behind your line and kill his inf with your support. Don't give free targets to 88's.
- lack of direct support fire except these 88's
- slow speed (88's are so slow , the only strategy the player will try to do is reenforce the frontline directly with 88's to make ground). Slow speed allows you to relocate with armor and use support armor like cromwells when he does nothing to react to your moves. Btw If you can't kill the 88's right away, disable its line of sight.

There are other decks which need specific counters 16th luftwaffe is no different. Don't try to fight against 101st airborne without enough inf AA or planes. Don't expect to fight against any heavy tank deck if you don't have enough at's/76 mm's yourself.

16th Luftwaffe is like a lehr deck, it builds over time, what's the worse thing to do against lehr ? Let him wait B and C. What you do against lehr to disable it ? Rush him with all sorts of light vehicles and infantry. Smoke the 88's and rush him early.

 

[Herr_Robert]

You have to rely mainly on 1200m HE tanks to knock out 16LW's 88s reliably. The most cost-effective way to do so is to use fire position infront of the 88, but you can also use artillery to stun it first. The Canadians are probably the best against 16LW, because their elite Sextons are not only useful against 88s, but also great for counter-battery.

 

[KattiValk]

Artillery does wonders to render Luftwaffe's 88s less effective. Especially in A, so long as you can keep the 88s pinned, you're going to do alright against them.