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The 2nd Unofficial Official Warlock Tournament - Discussion thread.

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unmerged(15561)

unmerged(15561)

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Mar 14, 2003
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Hello fellow Warlock players.

Since the success of the 1st Warlock tournament I did say that there may be the opportunity for more events to be organized in future. Therefore I am looking to you the community to see if any of you would like to take part. Hopefully it can be a bigger and better organized event than the previous one.

At this stage I am looking to see what interest there is. If you can commit to one or two games per week (or 2/3 a fortnight) then why not try your hand. Let me know here if you would be interested.

Also if any of you have any suggestions on what should change in terms of: setup, faction selection, scheduling and more importantly tourney rules, then please post them here. :)

THis time I hope to post the rules prior to actually get final lists of participants and preparing the scheduling.

So if you would like to take part, let me know. The sooner the better really!

Thanks again.... and watch out for those Dremer!
 
I'm in :)

As for the rules/setup, having played a bit more MP since the tournament, I would suggest a flat world. You tend to start at the opposite ends rather than clumped together in the middle when a continuous map is selected.

As for perks, I would suggest everyone has the same perks. This might be a fair way to balance MP for tournament play. I would suggest say everyone would start the gold, mana and spell perks. So it should boil down to player skill/luck and race, rather than what perk you have picked. Also I would allow all races to selected.
 
Sounds like fun. I'm not sure about Dremer inclusion, since it would detract from the strategy involved. I really REALLY dislike forcing everyone to use the same perks though. That sucks out a lot of the fun. We *could* house rule some to be worth more than others however. So let's say that we think Fervus or Garrum gog is worth 7 or 8 instead of 6. (Assuming you don't have to choose all perks). Or maybe that certain combinations aren't allowed. Heck we could also ban one or two. I just want people to have the option to customize themselves a bit.

Since we just want a quick fun tournament, we can do 1v1 on small or medium worlds I guess. Medium is more to my liking since it won't be an advanced unit tier rush, and issues like being the only one near a holy ground won't completely swing a game.
 
definitely in!

My suggestion for setup would be:
Map: small or medium great land. Supercontinent is also an option. Adding in any more water than that makes the games drag on as it becomes insanely hard to reach the enemy player (even with, naval superiority, landing an army is tough).

EDIT: I second the flat world suggestion that GaryW made. The game puts the 2 players on the opposite ends of the map: unfortuantely, for cylindrical worlds, that means they're right beside each other.

No dremers (it turns it into a complete luck based game. For example, if you have 2 dremer gates appear beside you as the enemy makes his attack... you're completely dead. Fight off the enemy player, and then higher level dremers will spawn and take your rear cities. Fight off the dremers, and you'll lose several vital cities to the other player)

For perks... I'd honestly say just flat out ban the OP perks.
Of course, which ones are OP are debatable, but I do notice that the ones that are the most game changing are:
- Koatl village
- Any favor ability (they all offer low-mana spells which also have much lower research costs, and most spell combos are favour spell based).
- Mana vault (100 mana start is huge).
 
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Efyian said:
definitely in!

My suggestion for setup would be:
Map: small or medium great land. Supercontinent is also an option. Adding in any more water than that makes the games drag on as it becomes insanely hard to reach the enemy player (even with, naval superiority, landing an army is tough).

No dremers (it turns it into a complete luck based game. For example, if you have 2 dremer gates appear beside you as the enemy makes his attack... you're completely dead. Fight off the enemy player, and then higher level dremers will spawn and take your rear cities. Fight off the dremers, and you'll lose several vital cities to the other player)

For perks... I'd honestly say just flat out ban the OP perks.
Of course, which ones are OP are debatable, but I do notice that the ones that are the most game changing are:
- Koatl village
- Any favor ability (they all offer low-mana spells which also have much lower research costs, and most spell combos are favour spell based).
- Mana vault (100 mana start is huge).
Click to expand...

I feel like mana vault wouldn't be so powerful if the favor abilities were disabled, or vice versa. Heck, I think the favor abilities might even be balanced with mana vault gone. You can get 3 or 4 free spells instead of just one, for that same 6 perk points. I wonder if we could convince the developers to make the favor abilities not come with the free spell, and only grant favor? Or make it so you only get 25 favor (Which I think gives you not enough to research level 1 spells of adjacent religions).

Anyhow, I'd totally be in favor of banning Mana Vaul, less so for Favor abilities (since they are a lot of fun...). Probably okay with banning Koatl Village (Why is that only 2 perk points? Seriously! Koatl warlocks on turn 6 or 7?)
 
I would like to say I am tentatively interested. Not sure of the lingo, or what expansions/DLC everyone is using, but I've played the base game a few times and have a set amount of time I could devote to doing this.
 
I'm in definitely. I've played probably 50 different 1v1's under lots of different circumstances.

In fact I've only been playing, because I love the game and I don't need to win. Just any excuse to try.

Sincerely,
The Vault Dweller
 
Zechnophobe said:
I feel like mana vault wouldn't be so powerful if the favor abilities were disabled, or vice versa. Heck, I think the favor abilities might even be balanced with mana vault gone. You can get 3 or 4 free spells instead of just one, for that same 6 perk points. I wonder if we could convince the developers to make the favor abilities not come with the free spell, and only grant favor? Or make it so you only get 25 favor (Which I think gives you not enough to research level 1 spells of adjacent religions).

Anyhow, I'd totally be in favor of banning Mana Vaul, less so for Favor abilities (since they are a lot of fun...). Probably okay with banning Koatl Village (Why is that only 2 perk points? Seriously! Koatl warlocks on turn 6 or 7?)
Click to expand...

The main reason I mention favour spells is because of the 3 really low cost summon spells:
- krypta skeletons for 13 mana, which make great neutral takers due to their high missile defense
- fervus bears for 15 mana, which are insanely tough with 50hp and 10att
- grum-gog rats for 13 mana, for lair taking with their 5 movement.

Due to the way they are spread out, you have quite a good chance of getting one of these summon spells in the first 20 turns if you pick any favour ability except dauros or helia (that said, Dauros/Helia offer the high damage spell combo to easily hit enemies for 48 elemental damage for 59 mana or so)

If you start with a summon spell, or get it in the first 8-9 turns (i.e. first or 2nd researched spell), you can clear 80% of the map, including an alternate world portal, within 30-40 turns. And it gives the host a huge advantage (they move after the monsters do, which gives them an advantage when luring monsters off lairs with sacrificial summons, and then easily grabbing said lair with a 2nd summon).
Whereas without one of these summoning spells, map and alternate world portal clearing is much harder. And sacrificing a unit for a lair is not really an option since it takes time to move your units forward to the lairs, and training time limits the # of units you have on the field.

Or put another way, if favour spells are allowed, I'm starting with Favour of grum-gog or fervus, and will try to be host it at all possible because you just get a huge advantage this way.
 
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All summons are broken since they have halved mana cost when you cast inside your city borders. For example, if you get summon wolves or imps in early turns, but your opponent doesn't, you have huge advantage.
 
harmonius said:
All summons are broken since they have halved mana cost when you cast inside your city borders. For example, if you get summon wolves or imps in early turns, but your opponent doesn't, you have huge advantage.
Click to expand...

The difference with the favour spells is the mana cost though.
Imps need 35 to cast, or 17 in your control area (but you still need 35 initially to cast it once), and have 2 mana upkeep.

Bears and such need 15 (or 13) mana to cast, and cost a mere 7 or 6 in your control area, and have food or gold upkeep.

This makes it much easier to cast constantly in early-game (when you only have 5 or 8 mana income/turn).

It should be interesting to see what rules we get :)
I don't mind playing with favour spells, I just think they're completely OP and change the way the game plays out early on.
 
Any update on the tournament?
We tried a game with Efyian with no god perks nor koatl village perks. It seems to solve a good few balance issues, and without god spells it is much harder to take down greater fire elementals, which makes it tough to get access to divine spells and temple units.

Modjo
 
My suggestions for the tournament rules:

Small map: Games on normal maps can take more than 10 hours.
No Favor of any God
No Lord of Koatls
No demonic adviser or master of blades
No mana vault
No dremers
 
Modjo said:
Any update on the tournament?
We tried a game with Efyian with no god perks nor koatl village perks. It seems to solve a good few balance issues, and without god spells it is much harder to take down greater fire elementals, which makes it tough to get access to divine spells and temple units.

Modjo
Click to expand...

Did you finish the game? Did either of you build any temple level units?

I like balance, but if the game ends up just being 30 turn rush games that only use undeveloped advanced units, I don't think it'll be that much actual fun :p.
 
Zechnophobe said:
Did you finish the game? Did either of you build any temple level units?

I like balance, but if the game ends up just being 30 turn rush games that only use undeveloped advanced units, I don't think it'll be that much actual fun :p.
Click to expand...


That one ended by turn 26 or so. He didn't make any tier 1 units, so when I struck him at turn 25 or so, he lost 2 villages in 2 turns, which basically won me the game.

But normally, 1v1s without favour ability tend to take 50-60 turns before the decisive engagement decides a winner.
That said, there are also 1v1s take go over 100 turns too.

It -really- depends on the position of the capitals, and how the terrain is set up.
 
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