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Korsan82

Anadolu beylerbeyi
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May 15, 2007
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f(x)= b * sin (x - a) + c

This is the core function of this idea I had while thinking about stability. Even if it doesn't make it into the game I liked it very much and would at least ask if it would be possible to mod things like this later on.

So here we go:
stability.jpg

What we see here is the sinus curve f(x) = 3 * sin(x) + 1.5

We have a base line, which is drawn in red and which is set by the factor 1,5 in the equation above. This factor is the basic stability your leader starts with. As you can see it does not divide the sinus curve into 2 equal parts but to a larger positive part, and a smaller negative one.

The Y-Axis is the stability value (which is about 4.25 in this curve's maximum), the X-Axis is the time in days (scale should be varied and the scale used in this example is just to explain you the idea behind this).

So what does this all mean now? The idea behind this is to get rid of the typical spend money to keep your stabillity up and to avoid arbitrary penalties for the player which can be really annoying some times and which you absolutely cannot avoid.

The suggested system now is being altered completely by the rulers stats, advisor stats and mainly bonusses or malusses given by events. The main part of each reigning period will be the events and their outcomes. A very capable ruler could change the base line (the red line) either up (bad) or down (good).

Positive events can only happen in the time window labelled as 1 (blue) and negative ones only at the time window labelled as 2 (red). In order to make this work the event pool has to be reworked, giving each event a minimum/maximum stability to fire.

From the equation f(x) = 3 * sin(x) + 1.5 the only changeable variable is the 1.5 which basically is your new stability. This variable moves your entire curve either up or down. The given sinus curve shows how it looks on a very capable ruler with only a small time window when negative events can fire (red 2). In short: +1.5 is the bonus from your ruler.

Now every event fires under certain circumstances. The new event system has to link the events possible to your current stability. In old EU3 only the frequency changed during low stability times (maybe there were some special events for extreme situations).

For example: The hated "comet sighted" even can only fire when the stability variable is below 0. In this case we are at 1.5 so the event cannot fire or should at least be linked with a Mtth which makes the chances of occuring very very small during a prospering period. Note that this event is just an example.

Events should always let the player decide either to gain stability or gain economical bonusses. Of course some purely negative choices should remain as well. Every decision made changes the variable up or down bit by bit.

Example:
"My lord an earthquake devasted our province. What shall we do?" (fires regardless your stability level as it is an earthquake!!)
1) Send as much help as possible (effects: lose lots of money, gain positive stability)
2) We don't have time or money for this (effects: gain negative stability)

Now our ruler died. A new ruler who is less capable than his father sits on the throne. The curve might change like this:
stab 2.jpg

As you can see the curve now is divided into 2 equal parts allowed positive and negative events to happen in equal amounts the base line is higher. Now the player has to care even more for his decisions from events or hire good advisors to compensate the lack of leadership.

I am aware of the fact that this might be a big change, but after all it's just one equation with all events linked to it. I am not familar with coding but I don't think this should be hard to add. Just the balance issue would take some more time but in the end I think you'd gain a better system of handling stability.

At the end I fear that my English is not good enough to explain everything like I had it in mind. But I hope it opens some new thoughts and discussions about it here. I'd be happy to see a feature like this in a EU style game.
 
So instead of having it as an integer you want it changed to a real number? Or did I understand wrong? Regardless I would absolutely adore if stability was something that came from every single applicable event. I also like the whole sinus thing, but that's because Math. :D
 
So is your idea is that stability no longer affect's stat's but instead once a week you go into a state where either good or bad events fire, spending more time in the good state if you have good modifiers?
Because it sounds quite bad if that is what it is? Why not just have stability affect likelihood of events?
Also as for unavoidable penalties, they are part of the game, no country had good stability for 400 years, the game is all about management of risk to achieve goals. Sure the stability hit for centralisation will increase revolt risk, but if you can put down the rebels you have a benefit.
 
I agree with Rich, the idea is, in my opinion, unnecessarily complicated. Furthermore, the system proposed here, implies positive reinforcement which is, in my opinion, a very bad way to go. Another problem I have with this is that it totally removes stability and changes it to a system which aims to escalate the state of affairs in one of two directions. In the old system, low stability was a problem in itself. In the proposed system you have bad things creating bad things and good things creating good things while totally removing the underlying cause.
 
I agree with Rich, the idea is, in my opinion, unnecessarily complicated. Furthermore, the system proposed here, implies positive reinforcement which is, in my opinion, a very bad way to go. Another problem I have with this is that it totally removes stability and changes it to a system which aims to escalate the state of affairs in one of two directions. In the old system, low stability was a problem in itself. In the proposed system you have bad things creating bad things and good things creating good things while totally removing the underlying cause.

it doesn't make anything complicated. Its just 1 equatian. The only thing that changes behind the scene is how things work. The player doesn't need to know this, I was just trying to introduce the way event decisions are being made.
At the end the player only sees a value like "Stability: 3" as used. But the outcomes might be very different.

I've always hated random rebellions for example. The rebellion events should be linked to the stability level even more than before. If you do all event decisions in favour of the people, why should they revolt? Of course there are some events that stay as random as they have been but I think this approach gives us bigger opportunities for further development. It is much more dynamic and the player doesn't just spend tons of money on some sliders. The player now actually has to think: Do I want a stable realm? Or do I want other bonusses like manpower, economy and forth...

So is your idea is that stability no longer affect's stat's but instead once a week you go into a state where either good or bad events fire, spending more time in the good state if you have good modifiers?
Because it sounds quite bad if that is what it is? Why not just have stability affect likelihood of events?
Also as for unavoidable penalties, they are part of the game, no country had good stability for 400 years, the game is all about management of risk to achieve goals. Sure the stability hit for centralisation will increase revolt risk, but if you can put down the rebels you have a benefit.

No, I want to keep the nature of the Mtth/odds to fire the event. This means in a period from 0 to 0 there might be 1 positive and 1 negative event firing. But there can also be 0. I'd also like to keep this period as short as possible, maybe even 2 days per period. so there would be a maximum of 1 event per day (again, thats a maximum. Having an event every 2 or 3 weeks is much more realistic to talk about with tweaked mtths/odds to fire the event)

Its a mathematical function running in the background of whitch the player doesn't get affected in any way.

And again: I don't want negative events to completely taken out. I just want some of them fire less if everything done right. An event like "Ruler died at old age" cannot be taken out no matter how hight your stability is. This leads to a classification system between the events.
 
Last time I checked, we were all typing in English. Sinus sounds very funny to a native English speaker...

Last time I checked, we were typing letters from Latin script. OP was familiar with word "sinus", as most of the languages on the planet ;)

Situation is funny for me, though. Usually it's you, English people, who add weird "-us" at the end of the words.
 
I don't quite get it, do you want stability to change all the time on its own with periodic ups and downs? That sounds like a poor system and would IMO be a step backwards from the (not that great, I agree with that) 'invest money to get stability' solution of EU3. In reality 'stability' changes very irregularly and is influenced by important events. The proposed system sounds like it would feel very random for the player.

'Random' rebellions are annoying, although if you look at history, there were lots of seemingly random smaller ones during this time period, the problem in the game might be more that it is hard to make a rebellion interesting if your method in dealing with it is so abstract that it basically always feels the same and the risk involved is near zero most of the time; making them fewer, but stronger and somehow more memorable as individuals might thus be a good solution for the time being.
Certainly they should not be made even easier to deal with by simply reducing their amount.
 
Too bad that English is considered the scientific language.

I agree. Any try to make an english native speaker to pronounce latin results in phonetic shame. :D

That said, I dont like stability hits. Korsan82 proposal might not be perfect but it is a good approach. I am more a fan of the logaritmic function though.
I don t see it so complicated. is a function, no big deal for programing, if any a re-balance problem.
 
But why have the sine function at all? If all stability does is keep you in the positive side of the graph for longer (and therefore increases the likelihood of getting a positive event) why not simply have stability increase the likelihood of certain events?
Also there are no real random rebellion's, the system is just abstract, if you hover over a province and you see what makes up the revolt risk you can see why the people are annoyed at you, everything else is just abstracted.
And as for "if you chose events to help the people, why do they revolt?", you could be the nicest man on the planet ruling a early modern state, your entire goal could simply be to make everyone happy, and unquestionably you will piss a lot of people off. You give give some political rights to peasant's? Well now there is a noble outside with 6,000 of his closest friends who wishes to have a serious talk? You maintain the rights of the aristocracy? Oops it turns out that those farming istrument's make pretty decent weapons.
That is why I enjoyed reading about MMtG's faction system, to emphasise how not everyone want's you to do the same thing.