The constant micro management is frustrating

[bumpinthenight]

They can't decide to feed themselves (that's okay, I wouldn't want my parties running home every 3 minutes just to snack)
But you can't queue them up to eat, you have to individually make them feed, if you try to make two sets of minions to eat the same time the second ones will stand there doing nothing and continue to starve. You have to wait to order the next minion(s). What?! Who thought this would be a good idea? Really?

This is a very annoying game mechanic, its my biggest gripe and frankly its ruining the fun. (and reminds me of someone's overbearing boss deciding lots of micromanagement is a good idea)

What good is the patrol option any ways if your minions won't even go and eat once in a while to keep themselves strong enough to *maybe* take out a hero party that dropped a ladder in the middle of your lair...again. (2nd most annoying game mechanic)

Dont' get me wrong I think there's big potential for this game but there's some polish needed.

 

[Zarco]

I think all of this can be fixed. They have been listening to the feedback given by the community. We will have to wait for the patches and see.

 

[VoodooEconomist]

I think implementing more hotkeys would go a looong way - things like upgrading armour and so forth should be quicker than enter panel->select unit->click, especially when there's 25+ units to upgrade!

 

[TheDarkside]

Yeah the micromanagement can be frustrating.

I have a question about the patrols. Do your squads on patrol automatically attack ladders?

I find it quite disappointing that if I teleport a squad right next to a ladder, they do not attack it. I have to issue the command and its awkward because I have to zoom out into that strategic view in order to see the ladder icons and luckily I can teleport my squads from the same view and even issue attacks but the hitbox on the ladder in this view is very flaky - sometimes I just cant get the attack cursor to show up trying to mouse over the ladder from this view and have to zoom in.

I think a nice feature would be to be able to immediately build into a squad. Imagine right-clicking an empty squad slot and a context menu pops up to allow you to build a unit from the nursery or dive and it automatically gets assigned to that squad and run to them when it is built.

 

[VoodooEconomist]

I find it quite disappointing that if I teleport a squad right next to a ladder, they do not attack it. I have to issue the command and its awkward because I have to zoom out into that strategic view in order to see the ladder icons and luckily I can teleport my squads from the same view and even issue attacks but the hitbox on the ladder in this view is very flaky - sometimes I just cant get the attack cursor to show up trying to mouse over the ladder from this view and have to zoom in.

This! I find myself teleporting my minions far away from ladders, so I can issue an order, and even then it's hard to click on the ladder Also it would be nice if enemy icons in the zoomed out view could be "always on top" - I can easily access my squads by hotkeys, but ordering them to attack heroes is hard without zooming in since their icon gets covered by my squad icons!

 

[unmerged(264818)]

I have seen examples where a teleported Squad destroys a ladder by itself. This has happened when I tele a Squad to a ladder. Then on the F2 screen scroll and tele another Squad to another ladder. The first Squad destroys the ladder by itself then. So I think that if you are controlling the Squad it won't attack but stand still. When you park the first Squad and chose the second, the first Squad is on guard duty and will attack the ladder by itself, but it has to be right next to it. For game plays sake they should make the ladder aggro radius a bit bigger probably.

To add to the topic of the thread, yes having to feed everyone is tedious in the long run. It also takes away one of the best aspects of the Dungeon Sim, that the Imps are going on about their own business and the Dungeon comes to life by itself. So solitary Imps on guard or patrol should go to the kitchen by themselves. Even, keeping to the theme, skip work to stay in the kitchen and you'd find them playing cards or something. Now you can't slap Imps in this game to make them do as you want, but you could probably make an Imp that would keep the others to their job, so you could tele him in and he'd get them back to work. Or use the summoned Abbadon simply.

Now the player needs to figure out he has to use the F6 to send these units to go eat, and it quickly becomes a thing you have to do before you do anything important in the game, like taking Squads out on campaign. You can also only send 4 units to eat, click on 6 or 8, the last one's wont go eat. Maybe the devs could implement a Kitchen bell or something you could click, and solitary units would find out how to go eat.

Now I'd like to add, that there are issues with the game, but that the Devs still have made an enjoyable game. I hope they don't think otherwise. The UI isn't as bad as you think during the first few hours. You just need to use WASD to avoid the frustration, and use the F buttons to do everything. Doubletap Squads on the keyboard or the Nursery Icon on screen to get around.

Basically the devs said they found this system user friendly, and easy to use. That the mouse heavy approach is intuitive. But when you think about it, they have just turned controls around compared to all other games. What you usually do with the mouse you now do with the keyboard, and what you usually do with the keyboard you now do with the mouse.

Problem is some players don't figure out how to optimize play by themselves. Even if it's mentioned in passing by the narrator. You don't hear some advice and then you don't figure it out by yourself. Then you have people who complain they have to right click a squad, chose tele and then scroll all the way to where they want to go, for example. And other stuff like that where nobody can tell them they aren't doing it the easiest way.

 

[unmerged(264818)]

They can't decide to feed themselves (that's okay, I wouldn't want my parties running home every 3 minutes just to snack)
But you can't queue them up to eat, you have to individually make them feed, if you try to make two sets of minions to eat the same time the second ones will stand there doing nothing and continue to starve. You have to wait to order the next minion(s). What?! Who thought this would be a good idea? Really?

This is a very annoying game mechanic, its my biggest gripe and frankly its ruining the fun. (and reminds me of someone's overbearing boss deciding lots of micromanagement is a good idea)

What good is the patrol option any ways if your minions won't even go and eat once in a while to keep themselves strong enough to *maybe* take out a hero party that dropped a ladder in the middle of your lair...again. (2nd most annoying game mechanic)

Dont' get me wrong I think there's big potential for this game but there's some polish needed.

If you want to feed Squads you just need to have all the Squads stand in the kitchen. They will take turns eating then. If you want to feed solitary units, you need to click F6 and then from there chose 4 units to go eat. Here you can't queue more than 4, as if the kitchen is being used they won't go, so you can only feed 4 at a time.

Here's what I do, place all Squads in the kitchen, wait for them to eat. Tele them all to where you are doing something. Open F6 and separately chose 4 solitary units and click on their food icon. After a while open the F6 again and chose the next 4 solitary units.

 

[Dunbal]

I seem to have no trouble queueing them up to eat. Right click somewhere on the wooden floor in the kitchen. Select next squad, do the same. First squad goes to the counter and as soon as there is free space at the counter, the next squad sends someone there. Although yeah a command to "stay topped up" would be nice.

 

[unmerged(664538)]

I seem to have no trouble queueing them up to eat. Right click somewhere on the wooden floor in the kitchen. Select next squad, do the same. QUOTE]

Yea I do this and it works fine. But I have had issues where if I have all my squads selected at the same time and tell them to go there where they can't make up their minds on who is eating first and all just sit there doing nothing. I've had to teleport them out of the room and manually move them back in to take care of that bug.

 

[unmerged(664538)]

Yeah the micromanagement can be frustrating.
I have a question about the patrols. Do your squads on patrol automatically attack ladders?

Yes, if a unit/squad is on Defensive, they will not target ladders unless you do it manually. Any unit on Patrol will target and attack any ladders they encounter, but if you're doing this with squads they will try and patrol and run around starting fights when you're trying to explore dangerous areas, which is a bad thing.

 

[swooshxx]

I seem to have no trouble queueing them up to eat. Right click somewhere on the wooden floor in the kitchen. Select next squad, do the same.

Yea I do this and it works fine. But I have had issues where if I have all my squads selected at the same time and tell them to go there where they can't make up their minds on who is eating first and all just sit there doing nothing. I've had to teleport them out of the room and manually move them back in to take care of that bug.

I think you guys misread -- they are talking about hitting the Eat button in the F6 dialog, which is often best for those with more than one kitchen.

 

[notger.heinz]

Totally agree on the micro issue.

What I would like to have:
- A "teleport all squads and Baal"-option (e.g. center of the teleport wheel)
- or the option to have meta-squads (like being able to put squads 1-2 in one group and 3-4-baal in another one, each with its own hot-key) and teleport them
- a return to your position after eating mechanic
- a "teleport to kitchen and afterwards back"-button

 

[unmerged(141552)]

Maybe its an issue in more advanced levels, but it seems to me that this micro is half of the game.

The dungeon layout doesn't really matter, you don't have any real control over your squads and external missions. Its mostly optimizing resources and taking care of your squads and dropping them quickly on the spot.

 

[unmerged(281120)]

I like feeding my own minions, dont find it bothering at all.

 

[Cyjack]

I didn't find it too bothersome at all...the first ten times I had to do it. By the second mission, with 4 squads that need to be manually fed with player input every couple minutes, squad by squad, I found it crippling. I felt like I was doing nothing but watching the squad management panel for orange bars, and then clicking the feed button repeatedly because the feeding process took so long, even when I had built a second kitchen to make more feeding space available. With 4 squads and a large map, you basically have to teleport them squad by squad to right outside a kitchen to get them to feed in a timely manner. The game became *all about* simply managing the hunger of my squads.


Bottom line, this game claims to be a hybrid of a traditional base building RTS, and a management style god game. In *neither* of those two games would this "feature" be welcome. In a management god-game, units feed themselves when you build the facilities, and in an RTS, players would go insane having to walk each of their squads manually to the toilet every two minutes. At best, it adds nothing but tedium. Personally, it was the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of my decision to continue with the game, though I am hopeful that at some point down the line I might be able to revisit this game and find a lot of these issues addressed, as I enjoyed aspects of it.

 

[unmerged(665092)]

I might be able to revisit this game and find a lot of these issues addressed, as I enjoyed aspects of it.

Yeah. I pretty much got two, maybe three good days out of this game before the micromanagement REALLY started to piss me off. I know there are Runes to make it easier, but hell you make them so hard to gain because of all the bugs right now I have no motivation to get them. I mean there are Runes which reduce the hunger of your minions, but really this shouldn't be an "extra perk" this should be natural. Instead of making it a Rune, just make them less hungry all the damn time.