The Fate of Nitra - Suggestions and national Ideas

[Sven446]

Hello everyone!

After watching the feature stream for Mare Nostrum and seeing that Nitra (Basically Slovakia, my home) Had no distinct national ideas. Jake encouraged us to make some suggestions about the ideas and their backgrounds.
I am not a historian by far, but I am quite handy in my local history.

Without further do, lets begin!

First some background: Nitra, or the Principality of Nitra was one of two countries left after the split of Great Moravia (the first, predominantly Slavonic, major state to emerge in the area of Central Europe, and the first to adopt christianity) after the death of Svätopluk. After the hunic invasions and the formation of the kingdom of Hungary around the year 1000 a.d., the region of Slovakia was conquered and became for centuries part of Hungary and later the Habsburg empire.

As of the culture: I am really glad Paradox added Slovak as a separate culture but please for the love of GOD! Slovaks are both linguistically and culturally western slavic! I understand it being a nerf for Hungary, but the slovak and hungarian cultures could not be any more different. Please, if you could just take a small moment to rethink your decision you would make a few souls a tad bit happier.

But enough of my rant! Lets see the Ideas, shall we?

Traditions:
-10% infantry cost
+10% tax modifier

Beacon of Christianity
+1 tolerance of the true faith
The Byzantine Emperor Michael III sent out Saint Cyril and his brother Saint Methodus in 863 to Great Moravia to spread Christianity among the Slavs in the area.

Rudohorie
+10% production efficiency
The mountains of central Slovakia are exceptionally rich with rare minerals such as gold, copper and iron.

The Glagolitic Alphabet
+1 yearly prestiege
The Glagolithic alphabet was the first slavic alphabet created in the 9th century by Saint Cyril, a Byzantine monk from Thessaloniki who sought to make the Bible understandable to the general population. First considered heresy, it was eventually formally approved by Pope Adrian II.

The Three Twigs of Svätopluk
+1 diplomatic reputation
"My sons, whoever breaks all these twigs, will be my successor." None of them were able to break them. "Now, all of you take one, and break them. As you see, only united are you strong enough to maintain this kingdom."

The Slovak Will (this might be better as a tradition)
+30% Hostile core-creation cost on us
For centuries we have maintained our cultural identity even after many attempts of foreign powers trying to assimilate our lands into their territory.

Novum Castrum
+20% Fort deffense
During the Ottoman–Habsburg wars many forts have been erected to protect Vienna from the turks. One of the most signifficant being the fort Novum Castrum, withstanding the most Turkish sieges before falling

Freedom Fighters
+1 attrition for enemies
The woods and mountains of our nation provide us with excellent cower against foreign invaders. Starving out enemy armies during sieges and ambushing supply lines is an effective way to make the enemy retreat

Ambition:
+1 Leader(s) without upkeep

These are my Ideas, making Nitra a basically defensive country but deffinetly not overpowered. The incresed coring cost is nice to repel early attackers like Poland and Bohemia (none of them had real intrest in slovakia).

I would like to thatk you all for reading my ideas. I'm almost certain this is not the best or consistent set of ideas, but I hope the developers will get some inspiration and insight about this little country in the hearth of europe.

 

[sparta105]

it could be fixed by these modifiers, i would still add +production and trade though (maybe +20% tax, +20% manpower, +20% production and 20% provincial trade power plus lower revolt and increased missionary strength), this would be more interesting than just give it same positive modifiers (i would leave those bonuses there for anyone as long as the culture stays Slovak, would be more realistic), it could be overpowered but Hungary usually does rather poorly from my experience anyway. This modifier should disappear after 1700+ i think with the waves of nationalism stuff.

Yes, Hungary usually does poorly but imagine what would happen if Poland took those provinces (which she usually does in my experince). That is why I suggested that these modifiers should only count if the primary culture is not West Slavic. Plus if Slovakian is an accepted culture there is no need for these modifiers in the first place (as you said eralier, these modifiers are there to ensure the representation of Slovakians being OK with anyone).

So, in light of this, let me make another suggestion:
New provincial modifier in provinces with Slovakian culture: Slovakian acceptance:

1. If the provinces are cored and owned by a nation that does not have its primary culture in the West Slvaic group AND Slovakian is not an accepted culture:
- +15% local tax
- +10% local production efficiency
- +10% provincial trade power
- +20% local manpower
- -2 local unrest
- +2% local missionary strength

2. If the provinces are cored and owned by a nation that has its primary culture in the West Slvaic group AND Slovakian is not an accepted culture:
- +5% local tax
- +5% local production efficiency
- +5% local trade power
- +10% local manpower

3. If Slovakian is an accepted/primary culture OR diplomatic technology is higher than 22 the modifier disappears (If I remember correctly it's dip tech 23 which give the nationalism CB).

Pest falling to Ottomans...well, the problem is that AI Ottos are very slow at conquering stuff, i have never seen them push up to Pest within first 100 years, really never, in any patch. Also i think there is no mission for conquering Hungary (there are for Bosnia and Serbia, vassalize Transylvania etc). Ottos controlling Pest is ridiculously harsh condition and the event im suggesting could give you rather small bonus regarding player´s current situation (aka Ottos crushing you, lol):

With the infidel Ottoman armies at our borders the crowning city is in danger, we are facing a difficult choice which will determine the future of our nation!

• Fortify our capital city! (Pest/capital city receives +25% garrison size, +25% fort defense and -50% fort maintenance for the rest of the campaign)
• Make Pozsony a crowning city. Its position behind the Danube river will ensure safety for our kings! (Pozsony receives +0,5/1 yearly legitimacy and +25% defensiveness for the rest of the campaign as long as Hungary controls the province)

Conditions:

• Hungary controls Pest and Pozsony.
• Ottomans control atleast 1?2?3? provinces with Hungarian cores. (i prefer 1 province)
• Hungary has truce with Ottomans. (to avoid just selling them one province)

Missions can always be added to encourage the AI to what we want
That said, your event idea looks good to me. With those conditions, 1 province seems perfectly enough.

 

[Cicatrix_lenin]

it could be fixed by these modifiers, i would still add +production and trade though (maybe +20% tax, +20% manpower, +20% production and 20% provincial trade power plus lower revolt and increased missionary strength), this would be more interesting than just give it same positive modifiers (i would leave those bonuses there for anyone as long as the culture stays Slovak, would be more realistic), it could be overpowered but Hungary usually does rather poorly from my experience anyway. This modifier should disappear after 1700+ i think with the waves of nationalism stuff.

Pest falling to Ottomans...well, the problem is that AI Ottos are very slow at conquering stuff, i have never seen them push up to Pest within first 100 years, really never, in any patch. Also i think there is no mission for conquering Hungary (there are for Bosnia and Serbia, vassalize Transylvania etc). Ottos controlling Pest is ridiculously harsh condition and the event im suggesting could give you rather small bonus regarding player´s current situation (aka Ottos crushing you, lol):

With the infidel Ottoman armies at our borders the crowning city is in danger, we are facing a difficult choice which will determine the future of our nation!

• Fortify our capital city! (Pest/capital city receives +25% garrison size, +25% fort defense and -50% fort maintenance for the rest of the campaign)
• Make Pozsony a crowning city. Its position behind the Danube river will ensure safety for our kings! (Pozsony receives +0,5/1 yearly legitimacy and +25% defensiveness for the rest of the campaign as long as Hungary controls the province)

Conditions:

• Hungary controls Pest and Pozsony.
• Ottomans control atleast 1?2?3? provinces with Hungarian cores. (i prefer 1 province)
• Hungary has truce with Ottomans. (to avoid just selling them one province)

Maybe im way too crazy for these special provincial modifiers but i love micromanaging stuff and using these bonuses, when i play as Sweden i always turn those 3 province in the middle into production centers. Terrain in Slovak province is farmlands with grain (i think) and then mountains with gold and copper, pretty expensive to develop so these modifiers would not break the game.

This has nothing to do with Nitran ideas. These are events for Hungary, so maybe move it to another thread? I know i'm a dick but i'd like to keep things topical...

 

[Sherhi]

This has nothing to do with Nitran ideas. These are events for Hungary, so maybe move it to another thread? I know i'm a dick but i'd like to keep things topical...

well, you are off-topic here, perhaps read the whole conversation how it actually got there

National ideas based on provincial effects make no sense (hence printing coins in Kremnica, very important for that area and especially Hungary = has nothing to do with Slovak culture or Nitra in this time period, beacon of christianity on the other hand makes sense for example)

Move these things to provincial modifiers instead of putting some random national ideas. Im not going to open another thread discussing the arrival of Slovak culture in next expansion and whole Slovak-Hungarian shenanigans during 1000 years when its all connected. One thread for 3 province culture seems enough for me.

 

[Cicatrix_lenin]

well, you are off-topic here, perhaps read the whole conversation how it actually got there

National ideas based on provincial effects make no sense (hence printing coins in Kremnica, very important for that area and especially Hungary = has nothing to do with Slovak culture or Nitra in this time period, beacon of christianity on the other hand makes sense for example)

Move these things to provincial modifiers instead of putting some random national ideas. Im not going to open another thread discussing the arrival of Slovak culture in next expansion and whole Slovak-Hungarian shenanigans during 1000 years when its all connected. One thread for 3 province culture seems enough for me.

Talking about Nitra duchy existing in 1444 forwards itself doesnt make much sense. Provincial modifiers are very rare, so I don't think it matter what will we come up with here, they will never put in the game. Because we have a bias toward making our own country stronger. I know that mint was important for Hungary, but it was the result of geological reasons. Lot of gold in the mountains needed to be converted into coins. So an equivalent would have come into existence, even if Nitra duchy was independent I think.

 

[X-Factor]

Better City Locations:

 

[SleazyUlmerian]

I think people are already overthinking this, and I see now that I am one of them too.
• The ideas already suggested on the first page work nicely (all of them make some sense) and dont make or break Nitra IF it gets independent.
• Since provincial modifiers are not as used as other things, the question of culture could simply be resolved by giving Hungary increased culture acceptance threshold, or making Slovak a rare case of accepted culture similar to Prussian being accepted by Poland since the beginning of the game, while still moving it to West Slavic culture group where it's supposed to be.

 

[Sherhi]

I think people are already overthinking this, and I see now that I am one of them too.
• The ideas already suggested on the first page work nicely (all of them make some sense) and dont make or break Nitra IF it gets independent.
• Since provincial modifiers are not as used as other things, the question of culture could simply be resolved by giving Hungary increased culture acceptance threshold, or making Slovak a rare case of accepted culture similar to Prussian being accepted by Poland since the beginning of the game, while still moving it to West Slavic culture group where it's supposed to be.

except its boring and not very historical, but yeah, lets use boring occam´s razor solution rather than thinking about it and actually improving the game by adding more flavour

fort defense makes no sense (should be done via provincial modifiers for Hungary since they actually built most of them), increased coring is boring as well, coin printing again to province modifier (other countries have those, suddenly some people here oppose this), or even events (many events add provincial modifiers and its amazing). The "good" countries are polished, having a mixture of somehow good national ideas combined with provincial modifiers, events, decisions and missions. (a good example is a country which has never been known for trading but always had this important harbor or trade center can just have important center of trade modifier in that one province and enjoy some more unique ideas better suited for it). Provincial modifiers are widely used for this purpose in an increasing rate since the game´s release. If we dont propose this stuff they simpy wont add it, its too time consuming to research all this (to some people) minor stuff by one team of people.

 

[bek0n]

I'm throwing some translations to this topic to improve the experience.

Province Names:

Owned by Nitra/Bohemia -

154 = "Nitra"
162 = "Zemplin" (Zemplín)
1772 = "Presporok" (Prešporok)
1318 = "Spis" (Spiš)
​

Owned by Hungary -

154 = "Nyitra"
162 = "Zemplen" (Zemplén)
1772 = "Pozsony"
1318 = "Szepes"
​

Owned by Austria/other german states -

154 = "Neutra"
162 = "Semplin"
1772 = "Pressburg"
1318 = "Zips"​

Estates:

Nobility = Šľachta
Burghers = Mešťania
Clergy = Duchovní
​

I'm also adding translations for Bohemia because currently it is half translated.

Owned by Bohemia -

263 = "Ratibor"
264 = "Vratislav"
265 = "Morava"
266 = "Praha"
267 = "Plzen" (Plzeň)
1763 = "Dolni Luzice" (Dolní Lužice)
1771 = "Krusne hory" (Krušné hory)
2966 = "Hlohov"
2967 = "Chebsko"
2968 = "Budejovice" (Budějovice)
2970 = "Hradecko"
60 = "Horni Luzice" (Horní Lužice)​

also owned by Poland -

154 = "Nitra"
162 = "Zemplin"
1772 = "Pożoń"
1318 = "Spisz"

Im not sure about if they're already in game, but polish names for czech provines:

263 = "Racibórz"
264 = "Wrocław"
265 = "Morawa"
266 = "Praga"
267 = "Pilzno" (Plzeň)
1763 = "Dolne Łużyce" (Dolní Lužice)
1771 = "Rudawy" (Krušné hory)
2966 = "Głogów"
2968 = "Budziejowice" (Budějovice)
60 = "Górne łużyce" (Horní Lužice)

I like ideas focused on production and economy
from military pool fitting ones would be "Fort defense", "garrison size", "fort maintenance cost", "attrition for enemies", "land leader maneuver" (all are pretty bad miliary ideas, but would fit the nation)

for events I can think of basic ones that spawns buildings or increase development in key provinces.

I would also add one late event for austria that would help to spawn Nitra

Year is 1700+
MTTH 2000 months (idk exact number, anyway it shouldnt fire in most games)
Bohemia doesnt exist, Nitra doesnt exist,
Key provinces (prague/nitra) are controlled by Austria

and some rebel stacks fighting for independece of both nations.

I would also add one event with very interesting character born in timeframe in this area (it could be linked to province, not country)
Maurice Augustus Count de Benyovszky (hun. Gróf Benyovszky Móric Ágost / pol. Hrabia Maurycy August Beniowski / svk. Gróf Móric August Beňovský)

My little crazy idea:

Year is 1760
MTTH 120 months

Gain 1 Heavy Ship and 5 transports in Kamchatka Province
Gain 4/3/4/2 Admiral named "Móric August Beňovský"
Gain claim on all Madagaskar provinces (not sure how it will look like after rework)

idea is to get fleet big enough to land on island and beat weakest natives there (but u also need some fleet basing rights and way to board ships with troops) its kinda late in game so this event is not a big deal, but I think it would add nice flavor to the game.

 

[Martin_Mortyry]

1763 = "Dolne Łużyce" (Dolní Lužice)
60 = "Górne łużyce" (Horní Lužice)

To make the names shorter, it could just be Łużyce for Niederlausitz and Milsko for Oberlausitz, as shwon here.
inb4 >hurr, this map is from XI century. Yeah, so? It's about nice and short names!

 

[NihiLux]

Hello to all

After reading through the thread and me being a history enthusiast (like everyone here, I suppose), let me share some input with you, guys. I also took various ideas I've read here and shamelessly copied them:

Nitran ideas:
Traditions:
+1 Attrition for Enemies
-1 National Unrest

Great Moravian Legacy
+1 Diplomatic Reputation
The ancient kingdom of Great Moravia incorporated most of the Slavic peoples of the region under the banner of Svätopluk I. His predecessors mantained a good relationship with Byzantium and withstood attacks even from powerful East Francia. After the Hungarian invasion in early 900s, the Nitran core of the kingdom survived as Appanage Duchy within the Kingdom of Hungary.

Land of Castles
+20% Fort Defense
After the Mongolian Scourge devastated our territory in 1241, the great king Belo IV sought to protect his lands at all costs. Henceforth, dozens of castles and fortresses were built so that our people would always be safe.

Privilegium pro Slavis
-10% Admin Tech Cost
German colonists are refusing our right to govern ourselves in our own towns! This legal document confirms and verifies that Slovaks are to be equally represented in city councils.

Thurzo-Fugger Mining Company
+10% Production Efficiency
The Thurzo-Fugger Company was the oldest export-oriented trade company in the world. It controlled all the mining operations in Nitra (Slovakia), including silver, copper and gold. One of its founders, Jakob Fugger the Rich became one of the richest men in the world of his period.

Kremnica Mint
-0,1 Yearly Inflation Reduction
Established in 1328, the mint issued several kinds of coins early on, of which the most successful was its ducat. Kremnica ducats were well-known because of their good quality and were considered the hardest currency in Central Europe. For nearly seven centuries it has continuously been producing mint articles.

Royal Free Cities
+10% Tax Modifier
The boom of the bourgeoise and capital they produced required the King to limit the authority nobles had over them. The cities were free to issue their own Coat-of-Arms, seal and most importantly, they could elect a city council. They were subject only to the King, which subsequently provided him with a steady income of ducats.

Militia Conscripts
-10% Land Maintenance Modifier
Throughout our history we were reliant only on ourselves to defend our homes and forced to fight for all the armies passing through our territory. Let us take advantage of this and make our army more resourceful!

Ambitions
+1 Leaders Without Upkeep


Later on I will add my suggestions for missions and events hope you like it.

 

[sparta105]

Hello to all

After reading through the thread and me being a history enthusiast (like everyone here, I suppose), let me share some input with you, guys. I also took various ideas I've read here and shamelessly copied them:

Nitran ideas:
Traditions:
+1 Attrition for Enemies
-1 National Unrest

Great Moravian Legacy
+1 Diplomatic Reputation
The ancient kingdom of Great Moravia incorporated most of the Slavic peoples of the region under the banner of Svätopluk I. His predecessors mantained a good relationship with Byzantium and withstood attacks even from powerful East Francia. After the Hungarian invasion in early 900s, the Nitran core of the kingdom survived as Appanage Duchy within the Kingdom of Hungary.

Land of Castles
+20% Fort Defense
After the Mongolian Scourge devastated our territory in 1241, the great king Belo IV sought to protect his lands at all costs. Henceforth, dozens of castles and fortresses were built so that our people would always be safe.

Privilegium pro Slavis
-10% Admin Tech Cost
German colonists are refusing our right to govern ourselves in our own towns! This legal document confirms and verifies that Slovaks are to be equally represented in city councils.

Thurzo-Fugger Mining Company
+10% Production Efficiency
The Thurzo-Fugger Company was the oldest export-oriented trade company in the world. It controlled all the mining operations in Nitra (Slovakia), including silver, copper and gold. One of its founders, Jakob Fugger the Rich became one of the richest men in the world of his period.

Kremnica Mint
-0,1 Yearly Inflation Reduction
Established in 1328, the mint issued several kinds of coins early on, of which the most successful was its ducat. Kremnica ducats were well-known because of their good quality and were considered the hardest currency in Central Europe. For nearly seven centuries it has continuously been producing mint articles.

Royal Free Cities
+10% Tax Modifier
The boom of the bourgeoise and capital they produced required the King to limit the authority nobles had over them. The cities were free to issue their own Coat-of-Arms, seal and most importantly, they could elect a city council. They were subject only to the King, which subsequently provided him with a steady income of ducats.

Militia Conscripts
-10% Land Maintenance Modifier
Throughout our history we were reliant only on ourselves to defend our homes and forced to fight for all the armies passing through our territory. Let us take advantage of this and make our army more resourceful!

Ambitions
+1 Leaders Without Upkeep


Later on I will add my suggestions for missions and events hope you like it.

These are really good in my opinion. Looking forward to missions and events! ^^

 

[AndrejK]

Great Moravian legacy could reduce relations penalty with West slavic,East Slavic , South Slavic nations or Orthodox nations.
The original Three twigs of Svatopluk could reduce unrest/strengthen national unity/ cheaper stability boost

 

[AndrejK]

Or maybe make Last idea The Legend Of Juraj Jánošík
Effect: +15% revolt risk in foreign occupied provinces belongign to us,
Rumours appear that in the hilly regions of our country, a legendary Robin-Hood like figure appeared who not robbed the rich foreigners and gave money to the local peasants. Even though he was hung after not a long time, his story inspires many people to take arms against foreing oppression

 

[Cicatrix_lenin]

They didn't put anything in and left us with generic ideas

 

[ValahNamedR3mus]

I really like the idea of Nitran ides I was about to start very same topic . You have my full support . I would also have an idea ... for a special Nitran event .... " Rebirth of Great Moravia" event could be triggered ONLY by Nitra and conditions would be : Nitra must own and have cored Vienna , Nitra , Pest and Moravia provinces . Or just make Great Moravia as formable nation for Nitra , there could also be achievement for this , something like " The Great one returns " and if that would be added to game , i have also idea about one other achievement " Svätopluks dream " , Core Paris as Great Moravia / Nitra . I think it may be very cool


EDIT: I did not realize Nitra has ideas already . I guess i did not played as Nitra for far to long

 

[Lazio74]

genetically speaking no, today hungarians are 50% slovak while Slovaks are 80% genetically tied to people living in the same area 8000 years ago.

I had a lots laughs reading this thread as a Hungarian of (truly) Slovakian origins (Békéscsaba), and also habitant of Esztergom for 15 years. (Though I could also agree with some of you)

The quoted section was especially entertaining. If you forgive me a joke. If Slovakians are only 80% percent similar to human spieces lived here 8000 years ago, and National Geographic says that humans are 96% similar to chimps, than I must state that some of us has a decent room for improvement