The Godfather Simulator

[IsaacCAT]

Preface: characters and families are managed directly by the player with instant interactions (buttons) and mechanisms (scorned families). Families are represented in the game as a group of individuals with a head of family or clan chief and an expected number of jobs for the members of the major families. The family members share the same surname, but they do not share other behavior or mechanic (except for some missions where families play a role).

Observation: IMHO families should represent lobbying groups of our nation. In addition, nation direct interaction with characters feels weird because they represent the spirit of the nation interacting through a character (the leader).

Suggestions:

I would like to breathe life into families and character interaction, taking back some control from the nation (player) and giving it to the Heads of family and Government Officers (simulation).

Families shall take care of their family members health, wealth and the continuity of the lineage. The nation is not concerned about these issues. That means no more scorned families or character interaction buttons, as the program handles all family matters with the following motives/objectives for each family:

1. Assure lineage: try to marry all family characters using schemes, money or any other means to have as many children as possible.
2. Take care of health of their members: spend money to treat illness, spend money to avoid assassination schemes, pay ransoms to liberate their relatives. etc...
3. Increase family wealth and prestige up to a point. When a family reaches high prestige and money, they will stop seeking more prestige and money and lose it over time while achieving objectives 1) and 2). When overall prestige and money reach a low point, they will try again to gain prestige and money. This simulates the rise and fall of families.

To achieve these objectives, each family will interact with the nation through the head of family or clan chief with the following actions:

1. The Head of a family will ask for position on government/governorship/general for family members. This is already an event but shall be more frequent and only for the families that need to achieve objective number 3). The player will be able to deny or negotiate the proposal, but petitions from Head of family that are refused will make the whole family less loyal. One option on the negotiation dialogue should be bribing the Head of family to satisfy its demands.
2. The Head of a family could ask the nation to ransom one of its members if the family wealth is not enough to pay the ransom. Again, petition can be given with or without conditions, implying corruption, loyalty, etc...
3. The Head of a family could ask the nation to give one of its members a cohort to send it adventuring.
4. The Head of a family could ask to Hold Triumph for one of its members that has won battles as a General/Governor
5. The Head of a family asks for a marriage for one of their sons/daughters to another family. Normally marriages are automatic, but sometimes could be interesting to give the player the option (specially in monarchies/Empires, but also in Republics and Tribes for flavor).
6. The Head of a family could ask to Grant Holdings for one of its members

Every time a character from a family is rewarded by the nation, the family will add to the family pool prestige, wealth and some loyalty for all its characters.

Interactions between characters like rivalries and friendships will be managed by the program. The nation will not have a say on characters rivalry or friendship and will only be notified. Even if the leader of the nation is also the Head of the family. The nation interaction with characters will be limited to accept, negotiate or deny the Heads of the Family petitions or the Government Officers petitions described below.

Other petitions will come from the Government offices (*), that can be lawful or interested:

• The Emperor asks to arrange a Marriage for himself. Normally marriages are automatic, but in this case is special as it is the ruler, and we want to give some choice to the player (3-4 options).
• Emperor could ask to Give Free Hands or Hold Triumph for a disloyal character
• High Priest will ask to execute prisoners if they are from other religions and has high Zeal.
• Court Philosopher will ask to impose Corruption Sanctions and Bring to Trial corrupt Characters.
• Steward will propose to Revoke Holdings from characters
• Chancellor will suggest Proscribing families
• Marshall can ask to Reward Veterans to reduce power from important Generals
• Physician can ask for medical treatment for an ill character
• Master of the Guard can ask to Hold Triumph for a High Martial General or Ransom imprisoned High Martial Generals

(*) Government offices’ names taken from Empire type of government

For example, the Emperor asks his Government to Give Free Hands to a Character. The Player can choose three outcomes or more depending on traits:

• Accept: usual outcome
• Deny: decreased legitimacy and -10 loyalty to all government officers for 12 months.
• Forced: usual outcome + Tyranny

The player (nation) will have to manage the same loyalty and characters, but decisions will be indirect, prompted by game actors. Already there are events that do that, but besides these events the player can always click some buttons to get his will done. I would like to manage characters only by events.

The pace of these petitions will have to be tested to achieve enough choice for the player without unnerving him/her with constant petitions.

Objectives:

• Differentiate nation from character roles
• Eliminate unnecessary mechanisms (scorned families, character to character interaction)
• Identify the family with the Head of the Family, giving them an important role alongside with the Officers of your government.

I have borrowed ideas from these threads:

Cannot arrange marriage for a variety of characters

I am trying to marry my line (Antigonus) in with Antipatrids. I can't do it just marrying a male to one of their 16 year old woman. Literally, I pause on their 16th birthday to propose the marriage and the AI rejects it on unpause because she's...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Jobs and family satisfaction

Hello all, I have trouble with my main families, it seems since I designated my ruler as general 2 families aren't satisfied anymore : 2 jobs and officies were enough before, and now they ask for 3 and they feel scorned. Many characters have...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

Dynamically Rising and Falling Great Families

The Problem Your Great Families are almost entirely set in stone practically from the start of the game, with the potential of 1 to 2 new Great Families emerging over the course of the game. While there isn't any direct problem with this, it is...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

 

[trjacobin]

Not that I disagree, but I feel like families just don't work in this game.

Different people in the party have different political views and belong to factions. Why would a Godfather that is optimates want a position for his populares son?

I would have prefered the families to be a political factions tab where you see which senator is where, if their conviction is high for one type (this would be a scale, with swing candidates towards the end of the line). The faction leader here would act as a whip and try to keep its members in line (with events)...

 

[IsaacCAT]

Not that I disagree, but I feel like families just don't work in this game.

Different people in the party have different political views and belong to factions. Why would a Godfather that is optimates want a position for his populares soon?

I would have prefered the families to be a political factions tab where you see which senator is where, if their conviction is high for one type (this would be a scale, with swing candidates towards the end of the line). The faction leader here would act as a whip and try to keep its members in line (with events)...

But it won’t work for political parties (1), what you do for your family goes beyond any rationale. La Famiglia!

(1) and monarchies, tribes, empires?

 

[AggaWackTan]

I would like to see a more automatic election process to simulate government positions. For each election a censor, praetor, augur etc is elected automatically based on age primarily, prominence and and then ability. The player can change these at a cost to character corruption (affecting loyalty, political influence and what not) and a small hit to stability that is negated if the ruler has high oratory skill.

Based on today's DD military tribunes are being introduced which is amazing. This can be an absolute necessity for a young character to be involved in to gain prominence in order to become eligible for government.

The researchers should be renamed into something more 'passive'. Eg. Finesse researchers become questors or aediles in charge of maintaining public infrastructure that in itself leads to innovative forms of building/ admin ie. research points.

But I absolutely agree with your points about families scheming independently of the player to promote their own prominence. Family should come before politics and a strong united family should gain an immense amount of prestige. How to deal with party loyalty? Families with split loyalties lose prestige. This should pave the way for a more dynamic rise and fall of families. A weak family leader without a strong family leader to make up for the faults results in split ideologies and leads to the family's fall from grace. This should impact family powerbase also.

I still don't agree with having too much emphasis on playing as the nation. This period was very much dominated by characters and culture. I think the game should highlight characters and pops, while the faction is just the institution that determines how they behave. I think going forward holdings should become a more interactive feature. They should become family estates, with their own map mode and the epicentre of power for each family. For example Etruria is the home of Fabii, the Cornelii are centred around Rome, the Claudii in Umbria. Granting holdings outside these traditional homelands could potentially skyrocket their prestige to traditionally optimates families, or it could lead to idealogy differences, great families breaking up or set the stage for civil war. Again a lot of this will be simulated automatically as researchers/ government positions should be automatically elected based on rigid requirements such as age/ prominence/ ability, and this leaves more time for the player to become less bog downed and roleplay more.

I think the player should basically be the censor of the faction. Positions should be automatically elected, families should rise and fall, great commanders can be controlled and granted triumphs as is right but should be expected to vacate power as is traditional. All this should happen but the player should just keep an eye on corruption, rivalries growing out of hand and overly ambitious families growing too powerful.

 

[IsaacCAT]

I still don't agree with having too much emphasis on playing as the nation.

I think the player should basically be the censor of the faction. Positions should be automatically elected, families should rise and fall, great commanders can be controlled and granted triumphs as is right but should be expected to vacate power as is traditional. All this should happen but the player should just keep an eye on corruption, rivalries growing out of hand and overly ambitious families growing too powerful.

The nation can favour one of the families. The player will favour one family in particular every time is prompted. Why? Because he likes the Head of Family Character, his political affiliation, or is balancing the power/loyalty in the nation.

However, I think is going too far to decide positions automatically. Having some prerequisites for the job would be nice, but I think it is too restrictive and cumbersome. You will be doing the HR manager job instead of playing the game. The Head of the Family shall ask the nation to position its members on the right career path for glory.

 

[AggaWackTan]

I'm mainly coming from the perspective of a Roman player, but I think it's more fun that eligible candidates are automatically elected and statesmanship is also gained much quicker for each term, in a Republic at least. I wouldn't say its cumbersome actually the opposite as the option for each position is limited and takes the immense level of choice away from the player. With 2.0 I can see appointing young tribunes in the army as an important way of getting young family members off the mark in becoming eligible for these simulated elections. I'm advocating for more an automatic simulation of this aspect of the game as I don't find min-maxing researchers/ gov positions and scorned families particularly fun. And then roleplaying from the result of the simulation.

Ofc it would be nice to still hold some control over appointing ineligible candidates. I think this should be tied to character events or if the player wanted to, they could interfere for little cost if the leader had high popularity and oratory skill to overcome the head turning of a corrupt and illegal appointment. So the option of appointing a character in a position is still there but a red flag alongside them indicates ineligibility?

Where I would like to see manual appointments. From 2.0 onwards, the player would have to appoint their favourite characters as military tribunes when they're young in the new army system and involve them in battles. This gives those characters a head start in their career path over poorer characters. There was a great post somewhere in the forum regarding the scramble for military positions, provinciae, military experience and how it was integral to the Roman political system. I think the player dynamics with the characters should be hotly debated around these positions.

I would like to see the system of family focus changing though and for that to determine their interaction with the player. But with regards to keeping a family relevant I think prominence should be considered to be a great family as well. Currently family prestige becomes so large, that minor characters can't catch up. If a prestigious family is losing prominence due to minor characters holding positions and thus prominence the events you suggested could play a big part here in this situation. This could play nicely into a 'Novus homo' situation where the traditional elites of Rome resented the newcomers. This is already kind of in the game I think but is an interesting transition that the player can roleplay with.

 

[IsaacCAT]

Where I would like to see manual appointments. From 2.0 onwards, the player would have to appoint their favourite characters as military tribunes when they're young in the new army system and involve them in battles. This gives those characters a head start in their career path over poorer characters. There was a great post somewhere in the forum regarding the scramble for military positions, provinciae, military experience and how it was integral to the Roman political system. I think the player dynamics with the characters should be hotly debated around these positions.

Your idea could possible work: you appoint your generals and they get prominence enough (as they do now) but then the game automatically selects them for Higher offices. Like the event when you try to make friendship with a General that asks for a position on the Government.

However, the player will likely choose the best warriors, alas, they could be old and thus after some years, all eligible candidates for higher offices are dead. How do we avoid getting into a cul-de-sac when there are not enough characters to fill all government offices?

 

[AggaWackTan]

So basically military tribunes (MT) were young aristocratic romans at the top tier of the roman army. It was a pivotal time in a romans career and could play nicely into the dynamic of a head of family (HOF) expecting a younger member getting the role which could lead to proposals by HOF's. Ignoring these could impact HOF loyalty and being scorned. It's this appointment I foresee impacting events (old dogs trying to pull strings getting the young boys in), as characters get older it's merit/ odd examples of corruption that determines appointmensts.

• MT in game should be 20-25 years old. (appointed manually by player) . there will be multiple MT's appointed by the player at this time (depending on number of armies)
• Researcher should be 25-30 years old (automatic simulation determines appointment, favours those who were MT).. end of term is replaced and needs to move on, can't hold postition again
• Gov position should be 30-40 years old (automatic simulation determines appointment, must have been researcher).. has to move on also and is replaced
• Consul leader should be 40+ years old (automatic simulation, must have been in government).. cannot hold office again for 10 years as is now.

Scorned families from being overlooked to MT in election 1 creates an event chain throughout. Therefore the player decides the best characters to MT and politics is therefore tied closely to the military but there will always be an abundance of MT's and therefore eligible characters throughout. Becoming a researcher does not require being a MT but the AI will heavily favour MT. Gradually some characters fall behind and grow resentful. Envy and scorned families then can hold lifelong grudges due to being overlooked and can scheme behind closed doors.

 

[IsaacCAT]

Gov position should be 30-40

Are there 30-40 positions in game now?

For an average game (5-6 regions) in 2.0 we could have 8pax goverment offices + 5-6 Governors +20-24 military positions = 33-38 positions total + 4 researchers = 37-42

 

[AggaWackTan]

No sorry I was referring to age

20-25 years old
25-30 years old etc

I'll edit the post to be clear

 

[IsaacCAT]

No sorry I was referring to age

20-25 years old
25-30 years old etc

The pyramid of jobs will make older and powerful characters out of office.

I suggested that families with high level of prestige and wealth should go dormant with less ambition for high office. Until prestige decays or wealth runs out. This will allow for the rise of families from obscurity. No predetermined major or minor families, but dynamically move forward and back.

But some drama with 2-3 needed families with old powerful character shall play.

 

[AggaWackTan]

Yes but great families don't have to be elected, minor characters are included in this system too. Prestigious and already prominent families will already be scheming to grow wealthy as you suggested, allowing minor characters to get involved in this simulation if manually elected by the player to MT. Great families won't plot to get into government while they're scheming to get wealthy, allowing for dynamic transition between prominent - minor character. 'Great family' shouldn't add much of a buff over merit in the simulator when being elected.

 

[Basileus2]

Oh man, this is a brilliant idea. Glad it got picked up on this week's Senatus Populesque favourites.

 

[IsaacCAT]

Oh man, this is a brilliant idea. Glad it got picked up on this week's Senatus Populesque favourites.

Thank you. I hope they use it here or in any other game, free of charge.

I like very much events that do this already but It feels strange that you can override them with one click.