The Hellcat could rotate its turret 360 degrees in 15 seconds, so its turret traverse shouldn't be slow.
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The Hellcat could rotate its turret 360 degrees in 15 seconds, so its turret traverse shouldn't be slow.
Only the M10 was hand cranked. Both the M18 and the M10 derived M36 had power traverses.
You play 3rd armored for the jumbo. The tank you use to to push ahead of your 76 Sherman's or support your infantry. 3rd armored also gets the calliope and more 76 Sherman's than 4th.
I feel like Sherman's prices are pretty good currently. Sure a single Sherman 76 can't stand up to a panther like a firefly can but it doesn't need to. 3rd armored isn't really about facing cats in the open field. It shines in closer range combat.
//end off-topic
I'd say the hellcat may be a little too cheap currently. I believe the marder is currently around 110? If the marder is 110 then I think the hellcat can be 120.
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Sherman pricing aside, a minor nitpick to this statement...
Trying to "stand up" to a panther with a Firefly is a really bad idea. You're looking at a 17% (panther A) or 28% (panther D) penetration chance at max range versus a 72% chance of the panther penetrating you. Closer ranges will shift the ratios a bit more favorable, but only because the Panther doesn't have much better to get than "always penetrates you". At 210 points for the Firefly versus 240 (D) or 280 (A) for the Panther, that's going to be a painful exchange rate until you get to very short ranges where it's just going to be a duel of who shoots first.
The odds and appeal of trying to win that fight are also made worse by Panthers tending to get better quantities and vet, overall, versus Fireflies.
It's a bit more like "a Firefly has a shot at penetrating a Panther you've already stunned with HE, assuming it doesn't get popped by something else while lining up the shot" than "standing up" to it, really.
(as for the Hellcat pricing, I've already said my bit on that earlier)
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Maybe a miscommunication on my part. Im not using my fireflies to fight 1 v 1 but I'm saying the firefly has a chance at defeating panthers in max range engagements. The 76 does not have such chance with its 13 ap.
I have been playing 4AD for a while now, and a strong opener is to use the M4 Abrams/Hellcat, 2 AA vehicles and infantry, with enough money saved to get a B26 Marauder when 1min has passed. You can dominate the skies with impunity unless the enemy player has really strong AA (like an 88).
Which is why I said I don't play like this. The guy said there is no reason to play 3rd armored over guards because the fireflies can keep panthers in check. I don't know what you take from that but to me that sounds like he's fighting them max range from the front which is why I said what I said. Not because that's how they should be played.
M18s with Sherman 105s are a nasty combination. I have 5 of the 105s in my deck, they are that good.
I think the sherman 105 is more dangerous in A than the hellcat.
The hellcat might need a price bump, but i think it's too soon to really tell. The thing about the hellcat vs the m10 is that 4 armor makes a pretty big difference, especially in phase A.
The hellcat might need a price bump, but i think it's too soon to really tell. The thing about the hellcat vs the m10 is that 4 armor makes a pretty big difference, especially in phase A.
As is the Hellcat is surprisingly good with HE. You need a supply truck to keep it fed of course, but I always bring a phase A supply truck to hold me over just in case
2 Hellcats with the Abrams making a great hunter/killer group
2 Hellcats with the Abrams making a great hunter/killer group
I just play against Roberts build, and I just cannot come up with something that can even stand up to it as a german panzer division. If someone can please tell me. In my opinion a good solution to the m18 is to reduce there max range to 1000m, to give most german armor a chance to shoot back. Maybe reduce there price accordingly. They would still be very deadly to german armor, but actually have to flank around.
Depends on what deck you are using?
Like any vetted marader will be a serious issue for the hellcat. Conversely any vetted pak will work. You should be on hold fire and draw his 105 into a trap. The hell cat will die to a similar trap as well.
Like any vetted marader will be a serious issue for the hellcat. Conversely any vetted pak will work. You should be on hold fire and draw his 105 into a trap. The hell cat will die to a similar trap as well.
17ss is very good counter division to the 4AD. They have phase A 75mm, Phase A maraders and then in B, they have more 75mm and vetted maraders.
Just to make it clear I'm talking about the whole 4th, not just m18. What do you think will happen to your AT guns and Maraders with a B26 flying around?
Well you obviously kicked my a$$ couple of days ago playing 9.panzer. I thought I had the 4AD down, until I met you. I watched that replay and it felt like you knew everything I was doing. Send me some constructive criticism yoda.
It's a slippery slope argument. You say, well 4th has X components to counter the maraders and ATGs. I'll counter and say, well they have Y to counter X.
Then we start theory craft arguing.
You detailed Roberts build and I gave you a stock answer to it. Improvise as the situation dictates
Then we start theory craft arguing.
You detailed Roberts build and I gave you a stock answer to it. Improvise as the situation dictates
130 + 100 + 70 + 70 + 40 (banked for marauder) leaves about 90pts, which is enough for 3x inf and 1x recon assuming I remember Abrams price right.
Not a ton of coverage, but I ran something similar on an open map.
With St Mere Eglise it seems pretty light. Do you just ditch the town and roll a side?
I mean either the M4 Abrams or the Hellcat, depending on what's appropriate, not both at the same time. For relatively short combat ranges, I pick the M4 Abrams because of the vet and command aura, and on open ground I roll with the Hellcat. It's possible to fight even in urban and forested areas because the B-26s can stun or at least demoralize the enemy infantry before you move in with your rifles.
17th SS is a great division, but ill-equipped against 4AD. You need either FlaK 88s or 2x vet ME 109s to counter the B-26s. I played 4AD vs 17th SS vs a top 50 player with 72% win ratio and won with relative ease. The game was practically decided in phase A and he resigned a bit into B. I stun possible Marders and PaK 40s with the B-26 before engaging them. The B-26 can even destroy the Marder after attacking it several times.
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