The late Austro-Hungarian navy profesionnalism compared to the army

[BaronNoir]

(Source : To Crown the Waves )

Few navies are as badly known as the KUK naval service, most famous for the yodeling qualities of one it's captains (a nevertheless very competent submariner) and/or bad jokes about Hungarian admirals. Yet, compared to the army, the navy performed quite credibly during the bulk of the war, with far less cases of desertions and/or passing to the ennemy than the army,

Moreover, the Navy did quite a good job at keeping the Austro-Hungarian waters reasonably secure while pinning down the bulk of the French fleet, the Italian fleet and sizable British squadrons

Considering that the Navy was the fifth wheel of the carriage (IE, it was obviously not a top priority), it's startling to see that it performed quite well and managed to keep it's assets in working order till Horthy ordered essentially suicide missions, while the army was broken six months in.

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

of what period are you talking here?

 

[BaronNoir]

Well, 1914-1918. There was no Austro-Hungarian navy afterward...

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

I was thinking more beforehand, it could have covered about 1868-1918

 

[BaronNoir]

I was thinking more beforehand, it could have covered about 1868-1918

Well, technically, 1868-1918 is the entire existence of the Austrian-Hungarian navy.

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

Well, technically, 1868-1918 is the entire existence of the Austrian-Hungarian navy.

that was my thinking.

 

[Andre Bolkonsky]

Should we go watch The Sound of Music to remember why Captain von Trapp was being impressed into the Kriegsmarime following the Anschluss?

 

[bz249]

The bombardment of Ancona was brilliant, but then again the KuK Navy had the benefit of fighting against the Italians and the Army did a reasonably good job against those foes too ;-)

 

[Avernite]

I would imagine part of the reason for its relative effectiveness is its being such an afterthought; noone expected them to go out and win.

So they had a possibly better core to start with, and unlike the army, their core didn't get butchered in Galicia a few months into the war, so they still had those good men around.

 

[bluelotus]

From what I read, the AH navy actually planned a lot of counter measures in case the Italians joined in against the central powers (unlike the Italian navy). The sailors were also anxious because of the uncertain situation but after the Italian declaration of war came they were immensely relieved as the deal became clear.

I also think the late navy era (Horthy's) could have gone a bit different had the two Italian MAS' not ran into the Szent István in a freak accident.

There is this book that was OK, but I am not sure whether it has any other translations. I am guessing there bound to be a few German books on the subject though.

 

[demanvanwezel]

didn't the italians also lose a naval battle against A-H during the austro-prussian war?

edit: also the actual A-H army wasn't that bad, it was just that it's commanders were outdated offensive-minded zealots

the isonzo front is an example of what the army could do under competent leadership (although it helps that the italian leadership consisted of even more outdated offensive-minded zealots)

 

[BaronNoir]

I would say that there is no such things as ''freak accident'' or ''lucky shot'' in war-if two tiny motor launches penetrate in broad daylight an escort screen and manage to attack at point blank range, ''luck'' is not the explanation.

 

[J66185]

''luck'' is not the explanation.

Please explain what you exactly mean?

 

[Antediluvian Monster]

Please explain what you exactly mean?

He means that AH screwed up in sinking of Szent Istvan and got what it deserved, with no room for excuses.

 

[J66185]

there is no such things as ''freak accident'' or ''lucky shot'' in war-if two tiny motor launches penetrate in broad daylight an escort screen and manage to attack at point blank range

I'm sorry, I meant to say this.

 

[Antediluvian Monster]

I'm sorry, I meant to say this.

My previous reply still applies. Baron's whole post there is in reply to @bluelotus above who characterized the sinking as "freak accident".

 

[BaronNoir]

If the enemy already sunk on of your battleship with motor launches torpedoes and have built several hundred of those motor launches, it would be basic strategy to take defensive measures against the said launches.

Raiding the Otranto Barrage presumably did not required 4 dreadnoughts-and even less, inexplicably, two different groups of dreadnoughts who were without significant escorts as the light forces were already raiding the barrage (one destroyer and six torpedo boats almost does not count as escort)

 

[Båtsman]

edit: also the actual A-H army wasn't that bad, it was just that it's commanders were outdated offensive-minded zealots

But that was more or less a constant across all the different armies during WW1, it's just that some armies were better than others at overcoming that deficiency as the war progressed. There were more problems deeper within the KuK than the army high command.

 

[bz249]

But that was more or less a constant across all the different armies during WW1, it's just that some armies were better than others at overcoming that deficiency as the war progressed. There were more problems deeper within the KuK than the army high command.

They lost their core cadre during the early phases of the war and their army had no foundation to build on. Furthermore they were fighting agains Russia a foe twice their size and Italy (which is also half their size) and some of the Balkan minors. The army was simply overstreched. Given all the difficulties the actual performance of the A-H armies was not that bad.

 

[bluelotus]

Ah, what I was referring to was that, as far as I read, the motor boats accidentally ran into the Szent István while returning from a patrol. The failure to detect and intercept in time was a different fiasco of the AH navy altogether.