There is a question whether there be crusades at all if the empire won at Manzikert.Rocketman said:
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No fourth crusade.
Not against Byzantium, not in the levant. Quite possibly there was one in Al-Andalus, but it failed, the Moors were victorious.
Repeat. No foruth crusade.
Not against Byzantium, not in the levant. Quite possibly there was one in Al-Andalus, but it failed, the Moors were victorious.
Repeat. No foruth crusade.
Nobody is talking about the fourth crusadeMattyG said:No fourth crusade.
Not against Byzantium, not in the levant. Quite possibly there was one in Al-Andalus, but it failed, the Moors were victorious.
Repeat. No foruth crusade.
Did you like the Byz history I wrote ?
Personaly I would like it more if Constantinopole would fall on first siege...Calipah said:I like it personally
Sekenr said:Nobody is talking about the fourth crusade
Yes I did and I thought it most appropriate.
In response to the Fourth Crusade comment, rememeber that your email referenced rocketman's comments:
"Then byzantium would be too strong for the Fourth Crusade to target Constantinople, so they go to Jerusalem instead, helping that survive to 1419."
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Sorry didn't read into Rocketman's comment. It's good I could help. I've been a long time lurker and occasional poster on this forum. Guys, please lift the blind spot when it comes to Byzantium, thanks.MattyG said:
Sekenr said:
It isn't so much a blind spot, we just haven't had the time. Byzantium has a pretty well-built and complicated file and compared the the minimal work done on much of the European files before we (all) took over, Byzantium didn't deserve much attention.
My own worklist is pretty significant, especially with the time I have available. I also know little of byzantine history.
Accordingly, I am happy that we adopt your core storyline. Can you think of how this new history might effect the file/events/set-up?
MattyG
The thing is if the Byzantines had won at Mazinkert, they would have been in a really strong position, and quite possible there would have been no crusades, since the turkish invasion of Anatolia was what alarmed the west of the islamic onslaught anyways. The we would have no Kingdom of Jerusalem, since we wouldn't have had any crusades. And we would have very strong Byzantium controlling all of Anatolia from the beginning of the game. And we would have no turks there at all.
So. I think we should settle with "the disaster at Mazinkert did happen".
So. I think we should settle with "the disaster at Mazinkert did happen".
Not much effects, since I tried to make this story fit the initial setup that we have now. The only thing that comes to mind is that Byz should start with friendly relations with one or more Turkish states. Maybe I'll write some events for peaceful integration of Turks into Byz at the cost of RR in Greece and stab hit. Is it ok, or too much of a bonus to Byz?MattyG said:
I've created a draft of these events here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5331607#post5331607
I like this idea a lot. The stoy is good, but it also brings in a greater cost for the Byzantines going the traditional route of blitzkreig from 1419 to 1425 conquereing all of Asia Minor and all the Balkan states and becomming a behmoth before most nations have taken their first province: a terrible imbalance in the MP environment.
We also have ideas to change the Balkans set up, and have implemented a few changes, like expanding Romanian culture (which Byzantium doesn't get) and removing a few cores from Byzantium's starting position.
I'll download and look at the events later tonight if I can.
Matty
We also have ideas to change the Balkans set up, and have implemented a few changes, like expanding Romanian culture (which Byzantium doesn't get) and removing a few cores from Byzantium's starting position.
I'll download and look at the events later tonight if I can.
Matty
This is only a rough draft, I won't code them until you look at it, they might need balancing. Besides I don't see how it would stop Byz from blitzkrieging since you always have an option to abandon the whole chain.MattyG said:
Sekenr said:
Nothing stops ayone from blitzkreiging, but we can definitely influence the consequences of scuh action.
DoWing someone you have god relations with costs you more in stability and makes the venture more difficult. It also increases the BB cost, which is very significant in both SP and MP.
Perhaps we could also have this Turkish minor begin NOT in an alliance with the other Turkish minors, but allied with Byzantium? Teke would be the natural choice. This makes it even harder for Byzantium to run the knife through them and explains a little why Byzantium hasn't already done so.
Sorry but I still don't understand. Should I start coding it with only Teke in mind, not Caraman too? and you are happy with other stuff such as Greek culture for Antalya, and all the effects?MattyG said:
I guess I must have foreseen what the material would be!
I have not yet reviewed it, I was only responding to the forum posting. I'll have a look at your material tonight and get back to you.
Matty
I have not yet reviewed it, I was only responding to the forum posting. I'll have a look at your material tonight and get back to you.
Matty
What about letting some turkish tribes in Anatolia become orthodox. These who are far from the Caliphate instead start to collaborate with the newly strenghtened Byzantine Empire, which in turn sent missionaries. The turks had conquered a land where most population was christian from before. In a situation with great collaboration with the byzantines, the turkish leaders might have thought of converting.
I like the ideas here. However, I cant just trow away my own idea of a surviving Sol Invictus cult.
This is my idea:
In 1420, the Byzanatine prince Haeros of and some cultists tryed to starge a coup against the Byzantine regime under Manuel. They had some Strategoses on their side to who already had begun the spreading of Paganism in cities like Thessaconicla, Athens and Bursa. However, the Byzantine people and Patriarch will certanly no abbon thier god in fauvor to Sol Invictus.
(im no event scripter, but this gives you an idea of what I mean):
Action A: Sol Invictus will protect us!
Stability: -2
Religion: Pagan
Ducats: 300 (for plundering the cristians)
Domestic: Narowminded: -4
Domestic: Centralision: +2
Investiment: Stability: 250 ducats
Tech group: Exotic
Province religion: Pagan: Morea, Hellas, Albania, Macedonia, Smyrna, Bursa, Rumelia
Revolt: All ortodox provinces
Action B: Defend cristiainty!
Stability: -2
Domestic: Narowminded: +4
Investiment: Land tech: 250 ducats
Province religion: Pagan: Morea, Hellas, Albania, Macedonia, Smyrna, Bursa, Rumelia
Revolt: All Pagan provinces
Any comments?
This is my idea:
In 1420, the Byzanatine prince Haeros of and some cultists tryed to starge a coup against the Byzantine regime under Manuel. They had some Strategoses on their side to who already had begun the spreading of Paganism in cities like Thessaconicla, Athens and Bursa. However, the Byzantine people and Patriarch will certanly no abbon thier god in fauvor to Sol Invictus.
(im no event scripter, but this gives you an idea of what I mean):
Action A: Sol Invictus will protect us!
Stability: -2
Religion: Pagan
Ducats: 300 (for plundering the cristians)
Domestic: Narowminded: -4
Domestic: Centralision: +2
Investiment: Stability: 250 ducats
Tech group: Exotic
Province religion: Pagan: Morea, Hellas, Albania, Macedonia, Smyrna, Bursa, Rumelia
Revolt: All ortodox provinces
Action B: Defend cristiainty!
Stability: -2
Domestic: Narowminded: +4
Investiment: Land tech: 250 ducats
Province religion: Pagan: Morea, Hellas, Albania, Macedonia, Smyrna, Bursa, Rumelia
Revolt: All Pagan provinces
Any comments?
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Ehm, to be honest, the event makes no sense to me. A whole bunch of provinces going Pagan just like that while they've been christian for a millenium... :wacko:
They realized they were in the wrong?
*Salivates*
We should integrate the event into Intregnum I say!I can almost taste an andalusi Constantinople!
Seriously though, somewhat too much, but if I were you I would make a huge storyline which could see a return to a paganistic cult faith with huge resistance (almost zero possibility ai wise).
*Salivates*
We should integrate the event into Intregnum I say!I can almost taste an andalusi Constantinople!
Seriously though, somewhat too much, but if I were you I would make a huge storyline which could see a return to a paganistic cult faith with huge resistance (almost zero possibility ai wise).
OK, Here is a somewhat larger storyline:
In 1350, the Angeli dynasty of Eastern Rome had ended. Emperor Demetrios suddenly "dissapeard" and the young prince Hermerion where assasinated before he coud be crowned to Baselios.
After some disputes about the crown, Hiero Seogos, Overcommander of the army and navy took power. Hiero where Grandmaster of the Cult of Sol Invictus, and he decreeded that his cult should be alowed to tech thier religion and build tempels to thier god. However, the men of the church didn't want this to happen. The Patriarch and his allied princes began a civil war after succed taking over Constantinople.
But, even if they had many folowers, they had litteraly no chance. The revolters where mobs of peasants and workers whitout mutch equipment. They coud never do anything against the Byzantine army and navy. In 1353, the Rebels where defeated in their last stronghold of Dasmascus, but the revolt had already been supresed in reality two years earlier.
After this revolt, Hiero reformed the religion. He maded Sol Invictusism as a state religion, and laid what was left of the church under his direkt control. Sol Invictusism spread acccros the empire, practicaly in Athens, Tessaconicle and Bursa. Hiero renamed Contantinople to Byzantion to remove the name of the Cristian emperor Constantin from his Capitol.
Hiero died in 1405. His hier where Deeitheror Seogos, where continiuing the spread of Paganism accros the empire. However, in 1417, he where kidnapped by Cristians and burnt at the stake. A cristian, Manuel Epheros took power and forrbidded Paganism. This where unpopular, because a large part of the people had growned up under Hieros and Deeitherors rule and where Paganists still loyal to Sol Invictus.
In January 1920, Deeithors nephew Haeros and the other cultists staged a coup. The civil war had begun.
In 1350, the Angeli dynasty of Eastern Rome had ended. Emperor Demetrios suddenly "dissapeard" and the young prince Hermerion where assasinated before he coud be crowned to Baselios.
After some disputes about the crown, Hiero Seogos, Overcommander of the army and navy took power. Hiero where Grandmaster of the Cult of Sol Invictus, and he decreeded that his cult should be alowed to tech thier religion and build tempels to thier god. However, the men of the church didn't want this to happen. The Patriarch and his allied princes began a civil war after succed taking over Constantinople.
But, even if they had many folowers, they had litteraly no chance. The revolters where mobs of peasants and workers whitout mutch equipment. They coud never do anything against the Byzantine army and navy. In 1353, the Rebels where defeated in their last stronghold of Dasmascus, but the revolt had already been supresed in reality two years earlier.
After this revolt, Hiero reformed the religion. He maded Sol Invictusism as a state religion, and laid what was left of the church under his direkt control. Sol Invictusism spread acccros the empire, practicaly in Athens, Tessaconicle and Bursa. Hiero renamed Contantinople to Byzantion to remove the name of the Cristian emperor Constantin from his Capitol.
Hiero died in 1405. His hier where Deeitheror Seogos, where continiuing the spread of Paganism accros the empire. However, in 1417, he where kidnapped by Cristians and burnt at the stake. A cristian, Manuel Epheros took power and forrbidded Paganism. This where unpopular, because a large part of the people had growned up under Hieros and Deeitherors rule and where Paganists still loyal to Sol Invictus.
In January 1920, Deeithors nephew Haeros and the other cultists staged a coup. The civil war had begun.