The problem with the "Just" trait

[Rex Hiemis]

I think the game confuses the just trait with the compassionate trait. Even when I have a valid reason to execute someone, my character gains stress. Same with the compassion trait, but that is normal in that case. However, I think executing some peasant rebels, separatists, or some one who attempted my life, at least by Medieval standards should be ok.

Paradox, hear my plea!

 

[Voy]

That's actually a good point. If you have a justified reason for doing something, then it shouldn't give you stress because you're just.

 

[The Shacks]

100%. 'Just' does not mean 'Good'. Stannis the Mannis in ASOIAF is usually a good example of a JUST character, juxtaposed next to Ned Stark. Ned is Just and Compassionate, Stannis is just Just ( and stubborn ) Very different men, very different applications of justice.

In CK3, if someone plots to kill me, killing them is the Just outcome. If my wife cheats on me, prison, my vassals rebel, kill or strip of land.

Proper application of your realm/religion's law in punishing lawbreakers should give stress reduction. I do beleive you are right, from memory, in a lot of cases you gain stress.

 

[lo24681]

I think its cause the game for whatever reason does not seem to recognize any executions as justified, which I would say is not accurate. in order to fix it what paradox needs to do is add a new category to crimes called "death penalty" or something like that.

 

[cursorhiker]

This is one case where I think the other traits you have should play a bigger part.

Just & Compassionate: you pardon the young knight that stupidly tried to romance your daughter, but grant him a distant fief and a marriage so he doesn't get funny ideas.

Just & Callous: you execute the leaders of a faction that rose up without a second thought.

Just & Sadistic: you are free with the cruelest punishments for minor offenses

And so on.

 

[FondMemberofSociety]

I second the notion of making Just characters lose stress when they do just things, including but not limited to doing things by the law.
Joining their own religion's great holy war should also count, for purposes of doing the just thing, and declining to join adds stress.

 

[Goodfortune99]

Just as a trait should provide some leeway when it comes to punishing criminals as far as the appropriate range goes. Such punishments shouldn't cause stress, because you are being just as far as your laws go. Excessively harsh or lenient punishment should cause stress, and other traits like compassionate or sadistic should also be factored in here to nudge you either way.

I suppose a greater issue is that CK 3 doesn't have a very comprehensive system of justice. Crimes of very different caliper get equated in the face of law and you are provided no guideline for a fitting punishment: it's either anything goes or nothing does.

 

[tilly]

inconsistency is a problem with literally every trait in the game. theres no guideline for what, specifically, each one is supposed to represent, so every dev brings their own interpretation to each trait (when they even remember to account for specific traits at all lmao)

they could probably tweak this specific instance but i dont think the broader issue is ever going to go away

 

[Fenris_SE]

I had a character coming back from visiting one of the holy sites. And as usual, on his way back he met some lady who wanted to spend the night with him (as usual, because I've seen that event countless times). He'd been married for 10 years or so at this time to his soulmate. Both had a constant 100 opinion of each other without me even having to do anything. So I turned her down and got stress because he is gregarious. Gregarious means someone who likes to socialize, perhaps attend parties and being around other people, not be unfaithful to your spouse. There are other traits that could easily fall into the unfaithful category, none of which he had. If memory serves, his other traits were Brave and Content.

That was when I downloaded one of the character cheat mods and removed the stress he gained from that encounter.

 

[Apocal]

I had a character coming back form visiting one of the holy sites. And as usual, on his way back he met some lady who wanted to spend the night with him (as usual, because I've seen that event countless times). He'd been married for 10 years or so at this time to his soulmate. Both had a constant 100 opinion of each other without me even having to do anything. So I turned her down and got stress because he is gregarious. Gregarious means someone who likes to socialize, perhaps attend parties and being around other people, not be unfaithful to your spouse. There are other traits that could easily fall into the unfaithful category, none of which he had. If memory serves, his other traits were Brave and Content.

That was when I downloaded one of the character cheat mods and removed the stress he gained from that encounter.

I am onboard with the specific situation outlined in here but in general I think it is fine if two traits can conflict. What hapoened to you should defintely bedue to Lustful rather than Gregarious though.

 

[naq29]

I think its cause the game for whatever reason does not seem to recognize any executions as justified, which I would say is not accurate. in order to fix it what paradox needs to do is add a new category to crimes called "death penalty" or something like that.

it does if you execute infidels.

 

[vandevere]

it does if you execute infidels.

But not convicted murderers. In the REAL Middle Ages, the Law, or what passed for law at the time, not only executed murderers, but thieves too. And, even if they didn't execute you for stealing, they would chop your hand off.

Real Medieval Justice was incredibly harsh, which was, of course, the reason why "Going Medieval" on someone nowadays means giving a violent response...

 

[Ambion Iskariot]

Rule of Thumb: If just gives stress you are going to do something that looks justified for you but not for the game. Murder is an interesting case because for the game in many cases murder isn't a crime at all.

 

[Beauarien]

For me the problem is the lack of use of stress in the game . So it is normal for someone right to be stressed in the course of an execution justify all actions must in my opinion generate stress. But indeed the execution of a criminal must cost less and especially for a just .

 

[Garbon]

Real Medieval Justice was incredibly harsh, which was, of course, the reason why "Going Medieval" on someone nowadays means giving a violent response...

I think that's more what we've inherited from the historiography of the 18th/19th centuries and Tarantino...

 

[SilentReflection]

Maybe if the stress gained could be tied to things that increase tyranny for just characters, that would make sense