Themes I'd like to see explored in Season 3

[Whiskeyjack-5691]

Vampires, Blood Magic, Seduction and Spycraft

This one is pretty straightforward and a very common suggestion. I'd like to add that Vampires are often portrayed as master manipulators, so I think it would be cool to make them come with spy-related mechanincs, such as making other vasals secede, breaking alliances between other players, forcing wars, making false-flag attacks, etc.

One of the Toms mentioned in a livestream that they already have some ideas and early plans for Vampires as well as expanding mechanics and gameplay around the Shadow and Chaos affinities0 (espionage, blood magic, etc.) for the 3rd Expansion Pass. We don't yet know if we'll get a 3rd Expansion Pass yet, but if we do, I think it's safe to say that you'll get your wish!

Mushroom people, fungal infections, Hags and curses

The idea behind this is an evil Nature playtrough, which is somewhat limited currently. The fungal infection could work like AoW 3 Necromancy, where if you kill an infected living unit, you can have it back as the exact same unit (as opposed to a Racial Skeleton or Skeletal monster with the current necromancy). For example if you kill an infected Warg and Dark Warrior, you can "ressurect" them as Fungal Tralls which have Plant attribute and some other debuffs (for example slow movement, etc).

The other idea is Shadow/Nature tome that is focused around Hags and cursing enemies. Would be cool to have an option to "create" your own Hexes combining diffirent effects via something like the Item Forge UI, but for spells. For example it could have physical-based curses (bleed, sundered armor, etc), blight-based curses (poison, decay, disease), ice-based curses (slow, status vulnerability, maybe some new cold-based DoT status) that you can mix and match together.

I remember them saying in another livestream some months ago that there was some talk of doing a Mushroom/Fungoid race, but they needed to find the right DLC to tie it into... or something. Can't remember what they said exactly, but they definitely said it was on their list of potential ideas.

Fungal Infections is a neat idea, but I do worry it might be too similar to Necromancy or the Reaver's Subdue mechanic. Would certainly be a fun idea if they could figure a way to differentiate it enough.
Hags and Hexes could be cool too... To be honest, I feel like the Ogre Seer Shopkeeper is a little underwhelming; giving her some kind of mechanic where you can commission her to craft unique spells for you would be really fun.

Water Expansion

Water combat overhaul (again), ships (embarking units in diffirent types of ships), Sea Dwelling, Water Magic Material and wonders, Water magic, a posibility to terraform water tiles and create arificial islands and peninsulas.

Agreed. I'm very impatient to see an overhaul of Water gameplay myself, would love to see all of these ideas included in any potential rework.

Technology and Mad Science

Flame tanks, Engineers, more gunpowder magelock units like Gattling Guns and Mortars, Tesla Golems and Towers, Cyborg Construct major transformation and focus on anti-magic/supernatural stuff. Maybe an option to craft your own mechanical mount via using diffirent parts, so you could put your hero in the Mecha-like Golems.

I'm honestly quite dissapointed that we didn't get Steam/Flame Tanks and Engineers with the Empires & Ages DLC. But a "Mad Science/Steampunk" Tome would be a fantastic way to introduce them and more - especially an "Automoton" Major Transformation, I wouldl iterally adore that. Materium has been lacking a Major Racial Transformation since launch, and the Geomantic Crystalization doesn't really do it for me. Transforming your race into metallic Clockwork Automotons though? God damn, that would be cool.

Non-themed stuff
Return of classical fantasy and AOW creatures such as Hydras, Manticores, Gryphons, Minotaurs, Glutton, Sphinx...

I could see a few of those making a return with the Archon Prophecy DLC.

 

[Kitschy]

Absolutely. Most of the map options don't even have water.

I would rather the word ship gets automatically get censored on the forums than they spend any development time making ships for a game where over half the map options don't have water instead of having those artists, modellers, and animators work on something that can appear on every map.

Having naval engagements just be land engagements with wet feet are a vastly better use of everyone's time, and having selective ways to turn the disadvantage of embarking into an advantage like transformations and mounts (and context aware enchantments, which we have now and can be expanded on) is 100% the best way for this game to interact with that.

Ooof that is ... defeatist attitude toward the extreme and "word ship gets automatically get censored" is as funny of a statement as it is sad. (for real good God dude )

Imo it is always a shame when devs decide they don't want to flesh out that aspect of the game, but what even more surprising (and even more sad) when players are advocating for not doing it. PF had specialized naval units and if those would have been removed the game would be worst for it not better, Shogun had naval battles too and again if you remove those the game is worst for it not better. So I don't know, I actually don't get this attitude from people.

 

[seperamos]

Ooof that is ... defeatist attitude toward the extreme and "word ship gets automatically get censored" is as funny of a statement as it is sad. (for real good God dude )

Imo it is always a shame when devs decide they don't want to flesh out that aspect of the game, but what even more surprising (and even more sad) when players are advocating for not doing it. PF had specialized naval units and if those would have been removed the game would be worst for it not better, Shogun had naval battles too and again if you remove those the game is worst for it not better. So I don't know, I actually don't get this attitude from people.

The man is waging a solitary war against a historical means of traversing water, lol

 

[SpacemanFive]

I'd love to see things like a drider transformation and merpeople, too. I also wonder if some kind of magic technology "cybernetics" would also be possible for a racial transformation, and the magic tech could be a possible expansion/DLC theme?

I'd also love to see more races added. Would deer people be something other people might be interested in? Or sapient constructs/golems? (And is there a precedent for any of this in previous games?)

The updates to cultures giving theming choices with unique mechanics for them is something I've been dearly loving. I'd love to see Paradox have reason to update other cultures (that don't have that choice yet) like that.

 

[aerothgow]

Honestly enought with the furries !!!

Rock people, plant, mushroom are far better and more diverse.


Even robots (clockwork) would be cool

 

[Diovidius]

Honestly enought with the furries !!!

Rock people, plant, mushroom are far better and more diverse.


Even robots (clockwork) would be cool

They would all be cool but they all sound like transformations. The first two already are.

That's why people are asking for things like minotaurs, bearpeople, fishpeople, squidpeople and so on.

There could be a relatively easy way to start with plant people instead of waiting for the transformation and that would be introducing a form trait that lets a faction start with a major transformation.

 

[Kitschy]

The man is waging a solitary war against a historical means of traversing water, lol

That in itself is actually ok when he is voicing his concerns, for example I think the biggest problem would be the AI in all of it. (and only Triumph can tell can they really handle that or not) I am more surprised by attitude from a fellow player that he understands the system as it is now is bare-bones rudimentary and goes like yeap it should stay that way and should not be improved, but what is even more weird is the joke about how it would be great if people stop even discussing it or suggesting that it should be improved.

Btw not AoW related but Bannerlord will have naval expansion this summer, that would be very intriguing to see how it would be done. (props to devs for trying to flesh that out 'cause that would add more dimensions to the game imo)

I'd love to see things like a drider transformation and merpeople, too. I also wonder if some kind of magic technology "cybernetics" would also be possible for a racial transformation, and the magic tech could be a possible expansion/DLC theme?

...

I am speculating here, but I am getting vibes that Archons will be reimagined in that key. Basing this only on Cantariel and her Pegasus mount, but those two look like sci-fi fantasy to me. (she is essentially a space automaton and her mount has this strange cyber head implant/armor thing)

...

There could be a relatively easy way to start with plant people instead of waiting for the transformation and that would be introducing a form trait that lets a faction start with a major transformation.

AP will have "striking new traits" that let you transform your people, so potentially something like this would be done there.

 

[aerothgow]

T4 for all cultures

 

[Enforest]

T4 for all cultures

That's in my opinion FLC territory

 

[aerothgow]

That's in my opinion FLC territory

You will not get any more FLC if they don't develop another season so in a way it's the same thing.

 

[GloatingSwine]

The man is waging a solitary war against a historical means of traversing water, lol

Only 5/13 possible map structures have water to traverse.

That's the crux of the issue.

Anything that is developed to change water provinces needs to be sufficiently cheap in development time and resources that it does not detract from things that could be used on every map type or it needs itself to be something to use on every map.

That's why suggesting this complex layer of ship types is silly, most of the time you won't be able to build them and most of the time you can build them you shouldn't because you're committing resources to a strategy that can be bypassed and cannot win the map for you (because ships can't get out of the water to siege cities, sit on seals, or defend bound gold wonders but land units can get their feet wet).

People who are suggesting ships just aren't thinking about the actual game that they are playing. The game will never be the thing they are imagining, it cannot be until the ships they are imagining can grow legs and walk on the land because that's where you need to be to win.

 

[seperamos]

Only 5/13 possible map structures have water to traverse.

That's the crux of the issue.

Anything that is developed to change water provinces needs to be sufficiently cheap in development time and resources that it does not detract from things that could be used on every map type or it needs itself to be something to use on every map.

That's why suggesting this complex layer of ship types is silly, most of the time you won't be able to build them and most of the time you can build them you shouldn't because you're committing resources to a strategy that can be bypassed and cannot win the map for you (because ships can't get out of the water to siege cities, sit on seals, or defend bound gold wonders but land units can get their feet wet).

People who are suggesting ships just aren't thinking about the actual game that they are playing. The game will never be the thing they are imagining, it cannot be until the ships they are imagining can grow legs and walk on the land because that's where you need to be to win.

Many of the story realms have water areas that can only be traversed by ships, flying, or sea creatures. Water is an essential terrain type in this game, and many players use it. Land units that are not transformed should use ships in battles involving water. It allows the other fantasy ways of crossing water to be that much more impactful and interesting by comparison.

You're not the game developer here, you can't dictate how they use their resources. Many members of the community have previously requested this feature to be looked into and expanded, and it's worth having a roadmap and getting a consensus on what that expansion should be like. Being dismissive of something that's already in the game but with limited investment doesn't help make make the game better.

If we can go beyond caves and gloom, then we should at least try to do so. We already have ship models in the game, and it makes the currently easy pirate cove infestations (kraken AND ghost ship combo?) more exciting to play against. 3 powerful ships against 6 seabosses is more exciting that 18 barebone ships against 6 sea bosses. That's the current action economy system nobody wants to talk about!

 

[GloatingSwine]

Many of the story realms have water areas that can only be traversed by ships, flying, or sea creatures.

No, they have water areas that can be traversed by embarked land units, which remain the exact same land units that you use all of the rest of the map, except now they have wet feet and a mild penalty for it.

Which is exactly how the game should continue to work.

 

[seperamos]

No, they have water areas that can be traversed by embarked land units, which remain the exact same land units that you use all of the rest of the map, except now they have wet feet and a mild penalty for it.

Which is exactly how the game should continue to work.

Thats incredibly boring. How many games or mods have you made with this principle in mind?

 

[GloatingSwine]

Thats incredibly boring. How many games or mods have you made with this principle in mind?

The decision to not have separate ships was deliberate and it was correct. If they existed they would be a noob trap that nobody should build, and they would have been a complete waste of development time on over half the possible map types.

You still refuse to address that, by the way. Over half of the map types have no water. Repeat that 1000 times to yourself. No water.

Everything is an opportunity cost, everything takes time and money to make, and Triumph isn't a large studio. They don't have infinity people to design, model. and animate units. Every ship they make is another unit they can't make that would be usable on every map.

 

[seperamos]

The decision to not have separate ships was deliberate and it was correct. If they existed they would be a noob trap that nobody should build, and they would have been a complete waste of development time on over half the possible map types.

You still refuse to address that, by the way. Over half of the map types have no water. Repeat that 1000 times to yourself. No water.

Everything is an opportunity cost, everything takes time and money to make, and Triumph isn't a large studio. They don't have infinity people to design, model. and animate units. Every ship they make is another unit they can't make that would be usable on every map.

You're dodging my question. You speak as if you're a Triumph developer that can state with authority whether or not resources should go towards a rework of a current game feature. If I can build a realm with islands, then I can choose to use ships to transport my land units to other islands in the realm I created. I think its a worthy endeavor for the development team to look into, as well as naval spi's, naval wonders, and island terrain, and you havent raised any particular objections that negate my opinions on naval rework being a necessary rework.

If we can do the hero rework, and the item forge rework, then we can do the naval rework with just as much finesse. None of those reworks ever interfered with the units or subcultures we were getting anyway.

Show me something you've made that gives you the experience and the insight into what Triumph should be doing with their resources and time into THEIR game. Otherwise, do us all a favor and step down from that soapbox.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Your units already embark. There is no such thing as "building ships to transport them". They already have that built in.

You are simply imagining a totally different game from the one that exists and pretending that the thing you have imagined is the starting point for development instead of the game that exists now.

You are still ignoring the fact that most map types have no water.

What games I have worked on is irrelevant (they're all tabletop and board games, but I'm not telling you my real name), the game we are talking about is a game where all units can go on water and most get a mild penalty for doing it, and a game where all of the things that let you win the game happen on the land.

Start from that premise, not the one you have imagined where you need to build transport ships.

 

[Kitschy]

The decision to not have separate ships was deliberate and it was correct. If they existed they would be a noob trap that nobody should build, and they would have been a complete waste of development time on over half the possible map types.

You still refuse to address that, by the way. Over half of the map types have no water. Repeat that 1000 times to yourself. No water.

Everything is an opportunity cost, everything takes time and money to make, and Triumph isn't a large studio. They don't have infinity people to design, model. and animate units. Every ship they make is another unit they can't make that would be usable on every map.

Such argumentation can be reversed - almost half of them do have it and almost half of those maps would get better and offer something unique if water layer will be better. Your argument boils down to - maps with water (that is almost half of the maps btw) should continue to have this subpar uninspired blue wasteland 'cause the other half of maps already come without it.

 

[Cristovao da Gama]

submarine layer
aerial layer

multiple planes - astral, ethereal, hell, etc. with intraplanar travel

realm of chaos type concept with invasions from a core location (breach into the material world from another plane) that can impact any and all players on the map; core location can be eliminated only by achieving a certain magic proficiency level and defeating powerful guardians

free city editor with the ability to make pools of pre-designed free cities that the game pulls from when generating a map

ability to create pools of pre-defined city names that the game pulls from as cities are founded

increase max faction count and map size allowing for dozens of factions and gargantuan maps ; those with lesser rigs can still play at current faction/map size levels

lich kings

gods and deities

more attention in general provided to naval concepts in general

 

[seperamos]

Your units already embark. There is no such thing as "building ships to transport them". They already have that built in.

You are simply imagining a totally different game from the one that exists and pretending that the thing you have imagined is the starting point for development instead of the game that exists now.

You are still ignoring the fact that most map types have no water.

What games I have worked on is irrelevant (they're all tabletop and board games, but I'm not telling you my real name), the game we are talking about is a game where all units can go on water and most get a mild penalty for doing it, and a game where all of the things that let you win the game happen on the land.

Start from that premise, not the one you have imagined where you need to build transport ships.

Once they leave land, they turn into ships. Peasant ahips, defender ships(that ram!), archer ships, mage ships...you get the picture? It's a dumb way of expressing naval transport and showing naval engagement. A single "ghost ship" type that carries defenders, warriors, knights, etc is more exciting to use against smaller pirate coves seabosses. and puts real risk into carrying your troops over water. Thats the type of naval tbs I'd like to see.

I try to value the opinions of others, but this opinion of yours is very, very shortsighted when it comes to naval gameplay. I can't agree with you on this, I think triumph can do better. I also don't appreciate the attempt to strawman my observations into a meaningless attempt at assuming what type of game i want to see.

We're not discussing land gameplay yet, this topic is about themes we want focused on in season 3. I would like to see the naval theme explored.