THIRD REICH AoD MOD

[unmerged(303287)]

Hello,

As a relative novice, can anyone advise me on smart use of the Artillery Bombardment option?

Do I realistically need the Railway Gun (slow and expensive)?

If I need them, how many ,and do I set aside a specific number of divisions for the sole purpose of moving and using it.

Is the huge drain on supplies worth it?

What would be a useful strategy to soften up a Soviet city?

Thanks,

 

[Gringoesteban]

I myself have never tried using artillery bombardment so I am not sure of its effect.

The railway gun is so slow that it is virtually worthless (IMHO). Plus you have to research it then build it.

If I were attacking, say, Moscow or Stalingrad with land forts and lots of defenders, I would surround the city and then attack from every adjacent province to maximize the 'multiple front' attack bonus. Paratroopers would give an extra angle of attack, too. While the battle is going on, I pound the city from the air with TAC and CAS on 'interdiction' missions so that the defenders run out of organization as quickly as possible.

 

[MagooNZ]

Thanks for the 1.08.4 mod Gringo. I never did try 1.08.3. 1.08.4 looks a lot harder with much stronger Red Army, but you compensate with a bit more GER manpower. Still looks pretty tough. And I used infrastructure destruction a lot, so now this has reduced effectiveness. To research dive bomber is another cost, and needs better airfields, plus air superiority, to be effective.

 

[unmerged(303287)]

I'm now at the eve of Barbarossa and my Occupied Province Modifier is running at -30%,which is a big hit. What is OPM and how can I reduce it?

Thanks,

 

[Gringoesteban]

I'm now at the eve of Barbarossa

How is your game going so far? Hopefully TRM's added flavor and challenge are making things more interesting than vanilla AoD.

my Occupied Province Modifier is running at -30%,which is a big hit. What is OPM and how can I reduce it?

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I believe this has to do with occupied/annexed/controlled provinces being less productive than core national provinces. In other words, when you annex France, the IC and resource production in say, Paris, will be far less efficient than in, say, Berlin. I don't think you can do much to influence this. Maybe one of the diplomatic sliders could help a tiny bit. Getting revolt risk down by putting a garrison division with attached MP brigade in high IC occupied provinces might help slightly. But realistically there is not much you can do. I have never worried about OPM in my own games.

 

[Blecky]

AFAIK this can be reduced by minister traits increasing IC and/or MP you can gain from occupied provinces (those you don´t have cores on).

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

AFAIK this can be reduced by minister traits increasing IC and/or MP you can gain from occupied provinces (those you don´t have cores on).

Yeah. A Prince of Terror as Minister of Security provide an extra +15% IC in foreign lands. I.e. A German-occupied Paris (with 100 infra, 17 factories and no revolt risk) gives 7.16 effective IC without the minister; but 8.35 IC with the Prince of Terror.

IIRC correctly, foreign land that is owned (i.e. annexed) has a base effectiveness of 40%, and controlled land (i.e. not annexed) has a base effectiveness of 15%.

I don't know about TRM in its latest format, but regarding vanilla AoD only ministers and some national ideas can change this.

As Gringo said, reducing the revolt risk of an occupied province can help quite significantly. A German-occupied Warsaw with 9 factories can provide 3.96 effective IC for Germany each day with no revolt risk - or just 2.10 IC if left completely ungarrisoned.

 

[unmerged(303287)]

How is your game going so far? Hopefully TRM's added flavor and challenge are making things more interesting than vanilla AoD.

TRM is a massive improvement over vanilla AoD and I'm still learning the nuances of it. There have been a lot of false starts,and will probably be more,but it's very enjoyable and better than anything else out there. I tried HoI 4 but found it a relatively sterile experience.

Getting my ducks in a row for Barbarossa has been quite a challenge. British Commonwealth forces launching what can only be described as their own mini-D-Day in May/June did not help

 

[Gringoesteban]

A Prince of Terror as Minister of Security provide an extra +15% IC in foreign lands....

Correct.

jonathan9 - regarding minister choice in TRM, I would not worry too much about OEM. Germany will probably run into severe manpower shortages by mid-1942, so I suggest appointing Goebbels as Security Minister in January 1940 as soon as he becomes available to get the benefit of his +10% manpower growth bonus. Maybe the extra IC from Minister of Terror would allow you to have more armor divisions and have all your divisions fully upgraded, and perhaps that would compensate for less manpower, but I always go with Goebbels as soon as possible.

 

[unmerged(303287)]

I'm trying to play the game with as much historic fidelity as possible.I understand that historically Germany attacked the USSR pretty much uniformly across the East Prussia to Black Sea front.

But in the game would the natural barriers in the north (river crossings, Pripet Marshes, forests etc) not result in severe penalties? I'm concerned that even if the initial attack was successful, the organisational losses would effectively blunt the advance into the interior.

Historically, Germany benefitted from the appalling disarray of Soviet forces in the Battle of the Frontier, but would the game reflect this?

 

[Gringoesteban]

Historically, Germany benefitted from the appalling disarray of Soviet forces in the Battle of the Frontier, but would the game reflect this?

In TRM, the Red Army will have many obsolete units in mid-1941, its land doctrines are nowhere near as good as Germany's, and it begins the war with a defense penalty (gde malus) that gradually goes away over the first few months of the war. You can win any head-to-head battle you undertake against the Soviets, but you cannot afford the manpower losses of a war of attrition over the long term. Also, battles reduce your org and you must continue to advance as quickly as possible.

I generally attack the Soviet Union with two large armored spearheads, each one along a "railroad line". You will see a string of 40 infrastructure provinces running from Konigsberg to Minsk to Smolensk to Moscow, and another one south of the Pripet marshes running through Kiev to Kharkov to Stalingrad. Those should be your main axes of advance because your supply efficiency (ese) in the 20 infrastructure provinces will be quite low. Drive deep along the railroads, then swing north and south to create huge pockets of Soviet divisions. I usually swing north/south once I reach Smolensk and Kiev. You can probably surround 150+ Soviet divisions total in three large pockets (one pocket in the Baltic states, one pocket in the Pripet Marshes, and one pocket in Besarabia/Odessa area). Allow the surrounded Red Army divisions to starve for a while then attack and destroy them with your infantry.


You can check out Lima Tango's AAR from a prior version of TRM starting at post 49 of this thread....
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...llen-quot-A-Third-Reich-Mod-1.08.2-AAR/page3&

Panzer Generals also did an AAR on an old TRM version where he got Bitter Peace.

Mr_B0naparte has an AAR where he got bogged down in Russia without achieving Bitter Peace.

Those three AAR's could give you some ideas about what to expect.


You can certainly attack along the whole front if you want to, like the Germans did IRL, and you will win the early battles and advance province by province. However, to have any hope of achieving Bitter Peace, you must surround and destroy large pockets of Soviet divisions while keeping your own manpower losses to an absolute minimum.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

jonathan9 - regarding minister choice in TRM, I would not worry too much about OEM. Germany will probably run into severe manpower shortages by mid-1942, so I suggest appointing Goebbels as Security Minister in January 1940 as soon as he becomes available to get the benefit of his +10% manpower growth bonus. Maybe the extra IC from Minister of Terror would allow you to have more armor divisions and have all your divisions fully upgraded, and perhaps that would compensate for less manpower, but I always go with Goebbels as soon as possible.

The extra IC would also mean extra TC. I used to prefer the manpower ministers above all else as Germany until I found out how much extra manpower they really give. For vanilla AoD, it's around an extra 10 manpower every year (and is probably less on TRM if the manpower penalty is still there). I should also point out the prince of terror means resource extraction increases by 15% too.

 

[Gringoesteban]

....I used to prefer the manpower ministers above all else as Germany until I found out how much extra manpower they really give. For vanilla AoD, it's around an extra 10 manpower every year (and is probably less on TRM if the manpower penalty is still there).

The math doesn't seem right. The Goebbels mp minister impacts both domestic and foreign mp output by +10%. I believe TRM and vanilla AoD are the same in that regard.

I just ran a quick test....
Germany's daily manpower increase in TRM 1.08.4 in late 1940 is 1.07 without Goebbels and 1.19 with Goebbels
0.12 extra per day (x) 360 days per year (=) 43 more manpower annually
That will make a huge difference as the war on the Eastern Front drags on year after year, assuming I did the calculations correctly.

The extra IC would also mean extra TC....

I had never considered the TC impact. I assume that more TC means higher ESE. Getting ESE up to regain org more quickly is vital on the Eastern Front.

.... I should also point out the prince of terror means resource extraction increases by 15% too.

The extra 15% foreign resource extraction would be more than enough to power the +15% higher foreign IC. As Germany captures provinces rich in rare materials and oil, that extra extraction could help offset the severe resource shortages Germany experiences in TRM by late 1944.



Until your post, I had always thought appointing Goebbels was a no-brainer. Now it looks like there is definitely a tradeoff to consider. Assuming my +43 mp/year math above was right, I am still leaning towards Goebbels as the best choice. What do you think?

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

Germany's daily manpower increase in TRM 1.08.4 in late 1940 is 1.07 without Goebbels and 1.19 with Goebbels

Does that include the effect of ageing?

I had never considered the TC impact. I assume that more TC means higher ESE. Getting ESE up to regain org more quickly is vital on the Eastern Front.

In this regard, keeping the TC in the green is all that is needed to ensure ESE is at its highest. Partisans are the other significant factor.

Until your post, I had always thought appointing Goebbels was a no-brainer. Now it looks like there is definitely a tradeoff to consider. Assuming my +43 mp/year math above was right, I am still leaning towards Goebbels as the best choice. What do you think?

If correct, then yes the +43 manpower a year is worth it but I believe you have not factored in the impact of ageing; it significantly decreases the increase in manpower.

For instance, in the vanilla 1941 scenario Germany gains 0.79 manpower a day, but loses 0.46 manpower daily to ageing, leaving an effective increase of 0.33 every day.

 

[Gringoesteban]

Does that include the effect of ageing?

Whoops, I did not consider aging. Let me redo the calculations....

Looking at Germany's daily manpower in TRM 1.08.4 in early 1941
mp gain is 1.19 with Goebbels and 1.07 without him
Aging loss on that same day is 0.44 with Goebbels and 0.40 without him
After deducting aging from daily mp gain, the net is +0.75 with Goebbels and +0.67 without him
The difference is 0.08
0.08 daily mp increase (x) 360 days per year (=) 29 extra manpower annually

Not nearly as much manpower boost as I thought. Does this swing the decision to Minister of Terror? Maybe not, imho.... Goebbels would add about +200 mp to the Wehrmacht over the course of a TRM game (from when he becomes available in January 1940 through the Scenario end date of December 1946). The German manpower shortages are so severe late in the war that I still believe the Man of the People minister is the best choice for this particular mod. Although it is a tough call.

 

[Mr_B0narpte]

0.08 daily mp increase (x) 360 days per year (=) 29 extra manpower annually

Not nearly as much manpower boost as I thought. Does this swing the decision to Minister of Terror? Maybe not, imho.... Goebbels would add about +200 mp to the Wehrmacht over the course of a TRM game (from when he becomes available in January 1940 through the Scenario end date of December 1946). The German manpower shortages are so severe late in the war that I still believe the Man of the People minister is the best choice for this particular mod. Although it is a tough call.

I'd like to think all minister appointments are a tough call in AoD - but there are many OP traits; the Air Superiority Minister for one.

The 29 extra manpower a year might be good, but what also needs to be considered is the extra IC and resources a Prince of Terror would give. That is needed for a true comparison.

 

[Gringoesteban]

I forgot to include the splash for the TRM 1.08.4 loading screen in the zip file. You can download the pic at the link below. Paste the file into the folder Arsenal of Democracy / gfx. Overwrite the original Load_1024.bmp file that is there, and then you will experience flavor every time you load the mod. This has no impact on play, is completely optional if you want to do it or not, and is fully save game compatible.

http://www8.zippyshare.com/v/h2Bl054D/file.html

 

[Gringoesteban]

I am looking for advice on how to proceed with my current TRM game. It is November 1942 and Germany may have reached the apex of its power. I fear that Germany's military is about to begin a long, slow retreat to Berlin.

Here is some quick background....

I am playing historically except that I did not fight the Battle of the Atlantic. Prior to 1942, I focused my production and tech research slots on Germany's land and air forces.

My only house rules (other than the standard TRM house rules) is that Finnish forces cannot leave the Karelian peninsula and Bulgarian forces cannot leave southeastern Europe.

My manpower kill ratio stands at an impressive 7.8-to-1.0. Much of the Wehrmacht's success in this regard is from encircling and destroying 337 Red Army divisions during the 1941 Barbarossa campaign and another 106 more Soviet divisions in the 1942 Blaue campaign. (That is 443 total Russian divisions destroyed, but the Red Army keeps fighting!).

The war in the West is going okay. Italy and Vichy France have been thrown out of North Africa, but that is no surprise. The Allies made several landings in Norway and France, but I pocketed and destroyed the invasion forces. (The biggest landing was about 12 divisions). The Allies currently have a foothold on one of the Greek islands, but I have them bottled up with a stack of Axis minor forces in Athens.

I am ready to defend myself against the Allied round-the-clock strategic bombing campaign that will begin in March 1943. I have plenty of interceptors, I built extra airfields so I can base my interceptors where they will receive the +15% nearby airbase bonus, and I have 10 AA guns and 2 radar stations in all key provinces that the Allies will try to fly through or attack.

The war on the Eastern Front has been going well so far. Moscow, Stalingrad, and Baku are in German hands.

Regarding production, I am building a small navy and three marine divisions so that I will be ready for Sealowe if I can defeat Stalin.

So far, so good, but I fear the situation is about to get dire -- I am completely out of manpower. I set all my divisions except air units on 'do not reinforce'. I am keeping the Luftwaffe at maximum strength. Also, if a panzer division or mechanized division moves to Berlin to regain org, then I reinforce that division to full strength as well. But I am already about 100 manpower understrength and winter is setting in.
_________________

Enough background. Now I need some advice....

My operational plan for winter 1942-1943 is to go on the defensive, but leave three holes in my frontline. I hope to lure the Red Army into three traps as it attempts to exploit the gaps. Once a sufficient number of Soviet divisions has driven west and exposed themselves, then I will then use my panzer divisions to chop off the Russian spearhead and then annihilate the encircled units. The attached pics illustrate the three traps I have lain. The red arrows show where I hope to lure the Russians, and then grey arrows show where I will subsequently cut them off. If all goes well, I can destroy about 30 Red Army divisions over the course of the winter, while taking few casualties myself. The thing is, destroying another 30 more divisions is only a drop in the bucket given that I have previously surrounded and annihilated 443 Russian divisions.

My ESE in Stalingrad is only 26.01%. German units regain their organization very slowly after combat, even with HQ's in the adjacent province. Chief of Staff Fritz Bayerlin provides an org regain +20% bonus. I built two extra infrastructure along the railroad line from Poland through Kiev and Kharkov to Stalingrad. What else can I do to get ESE up? Should I appoint Himmler (prince of terror) instead of Goebbels (man of the people) as Security Minister? The extra +15% foreign IC boost from Himmler would boost Germany's TC, thereby improving my ESE a bit. But I am already very short of manpower so the extra 30mp per year from Goebbels is vital.

I will discover the Infantry 1943 tech soon, but it will take a long time to upgrade my infantry units given the low ESE on the Eastern Front. Way too long to have an upgraded Heer ready for a Spring 1943 offensive.....

Should I delete some motorized divisions and replace them with mechanized divisions? I have plenty of IC available. For example, I could easily delete three motorized division and have three new mech divisions ready in time for a Spring 1943 offensive.

I have no long-term plan for how to win the War on the Eastern Front. Please give me your advice on how to beat Stalin. I am worried that a massive do-or-die thrust will cost me irreplaceable casualties and leave my forces low on org and exposed to a Russian counterattack.

Maybe it is hopeless -- could it be that Bring 'em On is impossible to beat in TRM v1.08.4 ?!?!?


p.s. In case you were wondering, the attached production queue pic does not show some misc items I am building (e.g. some destroyers, troop transport ships, and convoys)

 

[LimaTango]

Hi Gringo. I have no idea what to advise you, but I am playing TRM 1.08.4 right now. I plan to make a rather sparse AAR about it as I go, starting next week some time. This time it appears I'll be taking a licking, but it'll be fun regardless.

 

[clist123abc]

In my opinion motorized divisions work best in high infra provinces (i.e the France) and really have no business in the East unless it's to plug in gaps etc. I would definitely delete all the motorized divisions in the East and convert to Mechanized which by 43 are better than any tanks you might have due to being unable to upgrade given the time, resources and most importantly time away from the front they require.

You've done very well so far. One tip that saves a ton of manpower for me is to not engage the Allies Air Forces until i can catch their bombers alone. I try to avoid engagements with their fighters/interceptors (they have more advanced models than i do so i try to pick my fights even at the cost of losing infra. Perhaps you can save some more MP by dividing your panzers into an offensive group which is tasked with breakthroughs and one which is not reinforced but only responsible for mobile defense and can go back to Konigsberg for fast reorg (you can keep these at 40/50 MP strength and they'll still contribute). If not disband them and get more Mech.

Given that you only have 82 divisions total (unsure how many in the East) i would advise against the plan to perform 3 elastic defense operations. If the Soviets lost so many divisions i doubt they have the strength to really push through enough divisions for you to cut off. You can try since you don't lose much by not trying but I think you need to prep to put yourself in a position to take a shot at Sverdlovsk in 44.

I would try a single two pronged offensive. I see two options available. The small pocket option is to drive from Noginsk to Ryazan, to Penza to Balashov from the North and in the South from Stalingrad to Kamyshin to Saratov. All these provinces except Saratov are large plains and your tanks should make a dent. The riskier large pocket option would be Noginsk to Ryazan to Ulyanovsk in the North and Kamyshin to Nikolayevka in the South. The forests and low infra make it more difficult but the Soviets on the Don have less time to escape.

I would also replace Goebbels for the extra IC. Place the naval building program on hold and build and IC improve in the East on triple speed. 30 extra MP per year won't help you that much compared to the extra org you'll get from more infra. With the extra IC you could build 2 lines of 3 Mech and have 6 ready for action.

Don't give up hope, you've got them on the run!