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There should really be more room for size and strength variations as well. A 4500-ton C-class and a 18000-ton Hipper are vastly different ships
C-class is Early hull light cruiser. Hipper is 1936 hull heavy cruiser (through it seems HoI4 abstraction with dates may screw the picture here). Heavy crusiers in-game are bigger than their contemporary light cruisers - this can be extrapolated from their silouettes, and also from HP (heavy cruiser guns giving more bonus to HP than light cruiser guns). I don;t have strong opinion one way or another, but I think that was bad example.
 
C-class is Early hull light cruiser. Hipper is 1936 hull heavy cruiser (through it seems HoI4 abstraction with dates may screw the picture here). Heavy crusiers in-game are bigger than their contemporary light cruisers - this can be extrapolated from their silouettes, and also from HP (heavy cruiser guns giving more bonus to HP than light cruiser guns). I don;t have strong opinion one way or another, but I think that was bad example.
In fairness, Hipper throws everything off (although I think Hipper was 14k tons; Prinz Eugen was 18k tons for a bit more speed). Some light cruisers were lighter than their equivalent heavy cruisers (especially Axis ones), but for the Allies many of their light cruisers were actually comparable to or larger than heavy cruisers. In particular, 1936 cruisers were built typically all the way to tonnage limits (10k), making the Brooklyn, Town, Wichita, and Algérie all basically comparable in survivability or capabilities despite differences in firepower (the London Naval Treaty basically banned new CAs and caused the US and UK to design CLs with CA capabilities). 1922 cruisers are all over the place and don't consistently distinguish the size between CLs and CAs (other than smaller destroyer leaders or heavy minelayers), with the first-generation French and American CAs basically being upgunned light cruisers.

The in-game heavy cruiser HP bonus isn't really connected to any actual survivability (early CAs have comparable armor to early CLs, with some examples having less), and tying survivability to guns rather than armor makes armor pointless (besides blocking DD critical hits, it can actually lower the ship's survivability by lowering speed in exchange for higher cost).
 
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In particular, 1936 cruisers were built typically all the way to tonnage limits (10k), making the Brooklyn, Town, Wichita, and Algérie all basically comparable in survivability or capabilities despite differences in firepower (the London Naval Treaty basically banned new CAs and caused the US and UK to design CLs with CA capabilities). 1922 cruisers are all over the place and don't consistently distinguish the size between CLs and CAs (other than smaller destroyer leaders or heavy minelayers), with the first-generation French and American CAs basically being upgunned light cruisers.
Don't leave out the Mogami-class, they were important in starting the whole large light cruiser trend which the UK and US then responded to.

Japan being Japan then of course planned to cheat the whole time and made the 155mm turrets interchangeable with their 8-inch turrets to be able to refit them into heavy cruisers. Guessing you didn't mention them due to that conversion.
 
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1) No, they are not if you only fighting with convoys and their escorts. 5-6 CL's with full batteries can melt down an entire convoy and their 10-15 escort DD's in a second.
oh my God this is so bad... Please don't write any more comments on forums about a game you know absolutely nothing about. As a person who has played 4 thousand hours of MP on naval powers, I can say that you know absolutely nothing about naval combat.

Battleships have been dominating for what... 2 years, I think? Maybe more. It's funny that you haven't heard anything about it. Your idea of spamming light cruisers is a stupid idea that will only work against idiots or AI, but not against an experienced player.

For these two years there have only been two ways to defeat battleships - torpedo cruisers, and before this patch this method only worked for Japan, now for everyone. This is a rather tedious method, which implies the construction of torpedo cruisers of two types - heavy and light, where the heavy ones are real damage dealers without armor and with high speed to dodge salvos from enemy battleships, and the light ones have no weapons and are armored - they just absorb incoming damage from light guns of battleships, and they are needed only so that enemy battleships cannot shoot at the real danger in second line with light caliber guns.
The second method is aircraft carriers of the 40s under the "Tora! Tora! Tora!", that is, this method is also only for Japan. Note that even aircraft carriers of the 1940s will not be able to cope on their own, they need the most powerful support in the form of battleships, because the USA in 1941 will throw FIFTY NEW AND MODERNIZED BATTLESHIPS AND SUPER BATTLESHIPS in your face with the support of armored torpedo cruisers as an escort. Four 1940 aircraft carriers alone won't be enough to win, even with the "Tora! Tora! Tora!" spirit, even taking into account the merciless double overload of the flight deck.

Finally, this patch also added the ability to build pykrete aircraft carriers to kill battleships. But here you will have to endure the enemy's antics until '43, until all 4 pykretes are built. Spamming CL against BB might work... I don't know, maybe in another universe? Definitely not in ours. Because the armored front line takes almost no damage from enemy light guns, if you didn't know, so torpedoes are the best way to kill even escort ships (excluding destroyers, which easily die from light guns).
 
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In fairness, Hipper throws everything off (although I think Hipper was 14k tons; Prinz Eugen was 18k tons for a bit more speed). Some light cruisers were lighter than their equivalent heavy cruisers (especially Axis ones), but for the Allies many of their light cruisers were actually comparable to or larger than heavy cruisers. In particular, 1936 cruisers were built typically all the way to tonnage limits (10k), making the Brooklyn, Town, Wichita, and Algérie all basically comparable in survivability or capabilities despite differences in firepower (the London Naval Treaty basically banned new CAs and caused the US and UK to design CLs with CA capabilities). 1922 cruisers are all over the place and don't consistently distinguish the size between CLs and CAs (other than smaller destroyer leaders or heavy minelayers), with the first-generation French and American CAs basically being upgunned light cruisers.

The in-game heavy cruiser HP bonus isn't really connected to any actual survivability (early CAs have comparable armor to early CLs, with some examples having less), and tying survivability to guns rather than armor makes armor pointless (besides blocking DD critical hits, it can actually lower the ship's survivability by lowering speed in exchange for higher cost).
I think that the HP of the ship should be correlated to the modules it has. For example, a 1922 destroyer has 20HP. With 1 battery, 2 torpedos, depth charges, and AA, it should reach around 30-40 HP. Ships with armor, would receive bigger increments to HP. That would end the strategy of roach DDs, which I find abhorrent.

Another thing that should be implemented in ships, is the notion of tonnage (Like planes have thrust.). No CL should have all its module slots with batteries.
 
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oh my God this is so bad... Please don't write any more comments on forums about a game you know absolutely nothing about. As a person who has played 4 thousand hours of MP on naval powers, I can say that you know absolutely nothing about naval combat.
Generally--even if you have a strong argument--it is a crappy introduction (not to mention incredibly rude) to start an argument by trying to gatekeep the discussion.

Multiplayer experience is more valued if it is treated as your perspective from a competitive environment, rather than the only acceptable orthodox truth through which all other knowledge must be tested or burned at the stake. Your post would be a lot stronger without this kind of pejorative antagonism, or the idea that less experience = no experience.
 
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oh my God this is so bad... Please don't write any more comments on forums about a game you know absolutely nothing about. As a person who has played 4 thousand hours of MP on naval powers, I can say that you know absolutely nothing about naval combat.
Childish. I'll pretend I didn't see it
Battleships have been dominating for what... 2 years, I think? Maybe more. It's funny that you haven't heard anything about it. Your idea of spamming light cruisers is a stupid idea that will only work against idiots or AI, but not against an experienced player.

For these two years there have only been two ways to defeat battleships - torpedo cruisers, and before this patch this method only worked for Japan, now for everyone. This is a rather tedious method, which implies the construction of torpedo cruisers of two types - heavy and light, where the heavy ones are real damage dealers without armor and with high speed to dodge salvos from enemy battleships, and the light ones have no weapons and are armored - they just absorb incoming damage from light guns of battleships, and they are needed only so that enemy battleships cannot shoot at the real danger in second line with light caliber guns.
The second method is aircraft carriers of the 40s under the "Tora! Tora! Tora!", that is, this method is also only for Japan. Note that even aircraft carriers of the 1940s will not be able to cope on their own, they need the most powerful support in the form of battleships, because the USA in 1941 will throw FIFTY NEW AND MODERNIZED BATTLESHIPS AND SUPER BATTLESHIPS in your face with the support of armored torpedo cruisers as an escort. Four 1940 aircraft carriers alone won't be enough to win, even with the "Tora! Tora! Tora!" spirit, even taking into account the merciless double overload of the flight deck.

Of course dude, you can do whatever you want in RP games which no one takes responsiblity for other but in hist, after you produced 50 battleships with USA and killed Jap (and also your war potenital too), you can turn and smile to the Soviet player who about to die and beg for a D-Day. Please dont bring your modded game ideas and concluded with Axis victory Navy spam games here to cihldishly attack someone and advise him to not write to forums. Grow up, learn to argue. And one more, you can keep writing in forums if you wonder.
 
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My understanding is the British Army lost almost all of its equipment in the Battle of France (excluding troops in the Mediterranean, and other overseas colonies). The evacuation from Dunkirk forced them to leave behind all of their artillery and tractors.

It would have likely been somewhat similar to a "Mega-Crete 1941" campaign, where the British army evacuated from Greece was overrun by German paratroopers with nothing but pistols (German paratroopers landed with main armament separate of operators).

That's... not a good comparison. Crete fell largely due to communication failures allowing the Germans to take the airfield unopposed on the second day. Despite operating with a weaker fleet in a much less favorable aerial environment, RN attacks forced the Axis to abandon naval landing and resupply attempts. Even in the best-case scenario the Germans wouldn't have enough paratroopers for a "mega-Crete."

Depends on what we're talking about. In 1940 they definitely did not, but due to weather/hydrology conditions, a naval invasion in Fall of 1940 was unlikely anyways.

As to capacity, they managed to pull of Norway 1940 in even worse conditions.

Again, we have Normandy 1944 as "Reverse Sea-Lion". Everything what you're saying can be applied to that operation, and yet the Allies succeeded (despite even landing in a coastally fortified area).
A naval invasion in fall 1940 was always unlikely and probably would have failed. On October 1 1940, Churchill told the King that "Hitler could and should have invaded this country after Dunkirk, leaving the advance into Paris until later. The French could not have prevented Germany from doing so" (Andrew Roberts, Churchill).

Conditions in Norway were... pretty good, honestly. The Norwegians and Danes didn't believe they'd be invaded, and the Norwegians spent more time and energy warning the British away from laying mines off their coast than they did preparing for the Germans (William Scheier, Collapse of the Third Republic). They also didn't pass on any of the warnings they were getting from their own intelligence services to either the British or the French. And French intelligence was so poor that Darlan, minister of the Navy, didn't learn of the invasion until Premier Reynaud read about it in Reuters and called him. The British, meanwhile, had serious command-and-control problems. Partly those were the responsibility of Churchill, but largely they were the fault of Neville Chamberlain's failure to set up unified chains of command and overall theatre commanders. Once Denmark had fallen and its bases became available, the Skagerrak straits were closed and Germany could use the Baltic as a private inland sea for resupply. Norway, frankly, was an easy campaign.

At the time of Overlord, the Allies had overwhelming aerial superiority of a kind the Axis hadn't enjoyed since early 1940. On D-Day, the Allied air forces flew more than 13,000 missions; the Luftwaffe, fewer than 350. The Allies had overwhelming naval superiority; more ships were engaged in bombarding the French coast than the whole surface fleet of the German prewar navy. By 1944, German forces were engaged on three fronts: preparing to receive an amphibious assault on the coast of France, fighting in Italy and on the eastern front. Germany was without substantial reserves of a high quality. Maybe most importantly, the Allies had a tremendous logistics advantage by the time of Overlord compared to what the Germans would have had in 1940. Throughout 1943 and 1944, the British and Americans spent millions of dollars building railroads to beaches, storage sidings, fuel and munitions storage facilities and hard road networks in southern England. Most importantly, the Allies had much more shipping and naval transport capability available in 1944 than the Germans had ever at any time. Overlord was not, in any important way, "a reverse Sealion," an operation which depended on a suprise cross-Channel attack in bad weather and lightning speed to capture important objectives.

Somehow Germany launched the Norway naval invasion, landed navally (besides paradrops) at Crete and the British navy couldn't stop them. Not only that, from 1940 to 1945, they had no issue supplying Norway by sea. Why they would suddenly not be able to supply a force in the UK from French ports from a shorter distance, I have trouble understanding.
See above -- the Skagerrak strait was closed and the Allies had no available airbases. Norway tells us nothing about an action in the Channel. And what Crete tells us is that landing naval forces without overwhelming local naval superiority doesn't work.
 
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That's... not a good comparison. Crete fell largely due to communication failures allowing the Germans to take the airfield unopposed on the second day. Despite operating with a weaker fleet in a much less favorable aerial environment, RN attacks forced the Axis to abandon naval landing and resupply attempts. Even in the best-case scenario the Germans wouldn't have enough paratroopers for a "mega-Crete."
And what Crete tells us is that landing naval forces without overwhelming local naval superiority doesn't work.

I think the statement tells a different story than the conclusion: That a weaker force can still disrupt naval operations

Mechanically, right now we have the annoying problem where naval superiority is extremely difficult to achieve if you don't already have it (especially against the AI), and once it's achieved there isn't really any way to prevent naval invasions thanks to how fleets interact with convoys (ie. not at all outside of raiders with random chance)

I would personally make it easier to launch a naval invasion, but if it's intercepted it has a chance of going home instead of the units taking an (what is currently relatively insignificant) amount of damage. And in the process, allow fleets to manually intercept them
 
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I think the statement tells a different story than the conclusion: That a weaker force can still disrupt naval operations

Mechanically, right now we have the annoying problem where naval superiority is extremely difficult to achieve if you don't already have it (especially against the AI), and once it's achieved there isn't really any way to prevent naval invasions thanks to how fleets interact with convoys (ie. not at all outside of raiders with random chance)

I would personally make it easier to launch a naval invasion, but if it's intercepted it has a chance of going home instead of the units taking an (what is currently relatively insignificant) amount of damage. And in the process, allow fleets to manually intercept them
Yeah, I'd basically agree with that if we're talking about HoI mechanics rather than history. Weather, local spotting and communications networks matter a lot too. Like, the British worries over Sealion were basically that the Channel would be fogged-in and the Germans would be able to dash across without being spotted by coastal spotters, meaning the Home Guard and the Navy couldn't be mobilized in time. And, as you say, convoys are only partially interactable, but they really ought to be the critical unit of naval warfare. In a perfect Sealion world in HoI, the Germans might be able to grab naval superiority during a bad-weather period, only to lose it (and their ability to resupply by sea) when the weather cleared. The British close the Channel, the Luftwaffe and the RAF fight each other essentially to a standstill and the invasion is determined by the German ability to capture critical points on land before their force is degraded beyond functionality.

And on land, one of the major problems in France 1940 (not, like, the only problem, but a problem) was that the French had horrible communications. During the move to Bordeaux they constantly needed to borrow the British ambassador's radio. At Tours, they had one phone per chateaux but it only connected to the village switchboard, and the only operator took a two-hour lunch and stopped working at 6pm. In April 1940, the French had three separate high command headquarters. They had no teletype services between headquarters and each other or between HQ and the command posts of the field commanders. Telephone service were bad -- the connections were very poor and it was often difficult to understand what people said -- and telegram services were extremely slow. Dispatches from the front to HQ were carried by motorcycle messenger, many of whom died or hurt themselves trying to weave through traffic. During Gamelin's time as Supreme Commander he had no radio in his headquarters and complained that he had no carrier pigeons either. In order to communicate with Georges, commander of the northern front, he drove from HQ to Georges' house, 45 miles away. Gamelin testified that the French command and control system was so bad that the minimum time for an order from HQ to be executed was 48 hours, and the absolute bare minimum time for air support to appear after being requested was six hours. Not related to naval issues, except tangentially -- command and control isn't really modeled anywhere, but it was a huge issue.
 
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