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Thrake

Inveterate Piggy Stabber
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Jul 13, 2012
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How does it compare to AOW3? I would be particularly interested in how the AI fares. It used to be good at managing units but weak at handling anything about spells in my experience. This means that it would do fine early game but fall off as spells become more impactful.
 
Spells in general need more attention. On the strategic front you can prime them all once and keep them in reserve, if you want to, so that you can unleash a whole bundle of them, if necessary. On the tactical front, I think they are extremely important as well and quite varied.
The mechanism has somewhat changed; you have a certain number of operations points that are increased via research. Spell costs operations points and energy; Operations points refill next turn. Priming strategic spells can take more than one turn, while tactical spells will simply cost a certain number of OPs to cast.

I think, the AI is pretty good in making your life difficult, depending on the settings you play with.
 
About the AI:

Beat the campaign on very hard a few days ago. AI can't handle a dedicated tier 3 army of 2stacks. So most games was quick expand, patrol your territory with a couple of tier 1/2 armies and once you got your wrecking ball you just cut through them like butter. Upgrade your defenses asap, they'll attack one or 2 forts of the cities, lose a couple of units and don't have enough strength to take the city most of the time.

Once you got 2 stacks of 2400+ power the AI will keep sending stacks of 900-1300 power and although there are 4/5 of them, if they are in a conga line you can just eat them up starting from the weakest point. Only the last mission was really difficult at first* because the AI keeps spawning 2400-3000 strength armies right next to your territories. The AI is quite decent in batte though, but due to the mistakes it makes on the strategic map it becomes a roflstomp once you are past a certain point. Just don't spend too much cosmite on your cheapest soldiers and keep a reserve to start building elite's** with 3 mods. But that's optimizing the fun out of the game a bit too much sometimes.

AI also has a tough time defeating armies with automatic regeneration. 2 stacks with mainly Dvar trenchers with the fortification mod can keep cycling back and forth. Kirko with the resurrecting glands, etc. Most factions got a way to regenerate or/and revive. The more you survive battles the more XP you get, the more XP the more Health you get, the more health you've got, the better the regen is. So if you want you can make a lower tier army. The battles against the AI can be quite fun and intense but it's possible to outplay the AI with certain compositions. (Haven't played multiplayer so no idea how the game/meta works on that level, only got experience versus the AI)

* The massive island/teleporter mission was also insane and a gruelling slog till the end but a small tip. If you put a unit on a teleporter (just a single tier 1 unit even) the AI won't use the teleporter even if they could easily beat you. Even if they have 4/5 6 stacks at their side they will still try to take the long way over the water.

** Especially if you build them with the + X elite armor exploitation and preferably some other boost like shield, HP or morale from a special territory.

The game itself.

It's great! It can be fleshed out a bit more on some points though.

The customizing of units is one of the best aspects of the game, it's probably the first game that reminds me in a good way about the unit creation in Alpha Centauri. I know endless legends has something similair but it's quite bland in compared to planetfall. The amount of hero skills is quite low though, you can go the lvl20 but there aren't any new skills after lvl12. So there is not alot of options to really make your hero's as diverse. If you want to make a pure melee hero for example you'll run out of useful things to buy after lvl 14. I really hope they add a lot more in updates or expansions. But the design of unit's on the other hand is a lot of fun. This is where Planetfall shines like no other.

The city development is good, it's a bit diffrent then most systems in these types of games but quite elegant in how it comes together. Money gets a bit weird though. After a certain point you get more then you can spend. 1000 à 2000+ a turn.

The NPC factions on the map are a fine addition and can give some very cool mods or doctrines to further diversify your armies.

The campaign itself is not bad but it lacks the narrative and focus of Age of Wonders 1. You play 2 to 3 maps each with 6 diffrent characters and you see the story from a few diffrent perspectives but it makes the storytelling a bit unfocused and I stopped caring about the characters (but I never stopped caring about my trenchers, indentured and the sweet little Kir'Ko) Since you start from scratch every single map in the exact same way (start of the tech tree, 1 city, some tier 1 units) it becomes a bit repetitive and there is no true feeling of progression which I think a campaign should be about. Their is progression in the story (all over the place though), but not in the game mechanics or your faction.

The ending is also a bit lackluster after beating the finale mission. And after ending the campaign you can either play MP or a single scenario but neither really interest me so after a 100 hours the game is over for me. I had my money's worth but I had hoped for more interesting campaigns with progression.

Age of Wonders 1 was great in that regard, you kept armies and tech from previous missions, you made choices which factions to pick up allong the way and was therefor very memorable.

In my Dark elf campaign I ended up liberating the Lizardmen and leading an alliance of them against the dark elves and the undead (and fighting the orcs that were once my allies). When the campaign was over I immediatly wanted to start again and I had a choice, start again with the dark elves and pick a diffrent route or choosing the path of light and see which side I would end up with.
 
As far as tactical operations go, it's similar to the previous game where they have limited use on operations. You'll never see them use the summoning operations, other than the bloated pustule one, (and the AI on that unit doesn't seem to work very well at all) for example. This doesn't matter as much though, since heroes don't use spells and the AI does use all of the hero's abilities at its disposal.

Disjunction is gone from both combat and global spells, so its equivalent, Counter Operation is pretty limited in scope. The AI will follow much of the same logic in combat, just replacing Blessing of Health or Relentless Army with Autonomous Repair Subroutines or Aegis Protection Field, they just won't get into a disjunction/dispel war afterward.

I'm not sure what you define as impactful, but I know they don't prefer spamming things like Shredder Bomb and Biochemical Maceration the entire game. I've seen them use powerful late game operations like Starlight Projector. That was true in the previous game too, though.
 
I love age of wonders 3, but I think Planetfall improves in every way that I've tested so far.

And if you are a console player, there is nothing better. This game is a treat
 
Be aware that higher tier units are not as powerful (relative to T1 units) as in previous games. They also have lower upkeep: 4-8-12-16 instead of 4-8-16-32. So beelining to higher-tier units is not as powerful as you might expect. Cosmite income will be a factor in limiting your armies.
 
Thanks for the opinions.

I'm not sure what you define as impactful

The comment on impactful spells was trying to imply that, early on, in AOW3, spells can be useful, but they are not *that* important. Like, early on I might use star blades with a sorcerer. It helps, but most of the time it's not going to do much more than taking any other action, so an AI mismanaging spells or without hero won't lose much.

Later on you will have a lot of casting points, with many possible spells. So now to pick my sorcerer exemple, say I'm fighting a warlord with his manticores doomstacks in a city defense battle. Now I can cast double gravity and have a good laugh while the AI will cripple himself say casting stoneskin on an unit that I can slowly skirmish to death as it will never catch me.

So early game the AI in AOW3 does a good job at posing a challenge, but later on the player can get a hudge edge with better management spells, and casting points too (spending leader casting points in an attempt to win an hopeless, unimportant battle,...).
 
The campaign itself is not bad but it lacks the narrative and focus of Age of Wonders 1. You play 2 to 3 maps each with 6 diffrent characters and you see the story from a few diffrent perspectives but it makes the storytelling a bit unfocused and I stopped caring about the characters (but I never stopped caring about my trenchers, indentured and the sweet little Kir'Ko) Since you start from scratch every single map in the exact same way (start of the tech tree, 1 city, some tier 1 units) it becomes a bit repetitive and there is no true feeling of progression which I think a campaign should be about. Their is progression in the story (all over the place though), but not in the game mechanics or your faction.

The ending is also a bit lackluster after beating the finale mission. And after ending the campaign you can either play MP or a single scenario but neither really interest me so after a 100 hours the game is over for me. I had my money's worth but I had hoped for more interesting campaigns with progression.

Age of Wonders 1 was great in that regard, you kept armies and tech from previous missions, you made choices which factions to pick up allong the way and was therefor very memorable.

In my Dark elf campaign I ended up liberating the Lizardmen and leading an alliance of them against the dark elves and the undead (and fighting the orcs that were once my allies). When the campaign was over I immediatly wanted to start again and I had a choice, start again with the dark elves and pick a diffrent route or choosing the path of light and see which side I would end up with.

I agree with this.

I really wish campaign was much more fleshed out. I'm having fun with scenarios, but there was so much more potential. This looks like it was made as an afterthought, more as a tutorial than a coherent narrative campaign.
 
Yeah I feel you, they tried though. You can choose which of the 3 story options (core, empire or neutral) to take with each character but it doesn't always work as it should I think (Went for neutral with most characters but ended up with some on the other sides in the final map). This has probably to do with finishing quests/maps in an uninteded fashion by the creators like allying someone through a quest and later declaring war on them. In the campaign you might still be considered allies even though you changed your mind halfway through the map/quest.

But 6 shifting point of views is a bit too much to get involved in the story. (and the stories of the npc's you pick up along the way)

Now, I understand the urge to have a campaign where you play all the different races and see the diffrent secret tech but for me it resulted in a badly told story and a campaign that lacks immersion.
 
This game is excellent. I will say it lacks polish compared to AOW3 on release, but its also MUCH better balanced, and vastly superior in almost every way. I enjoy it even more than AOW3, and I'm anticipating that the dlcs and expansions are going to massively improve it. The base game is great, but the potential is also MUCH higher than any previous AOW game. I STRONGLY endorse it.
 
This game is excellent. I will say it lacks polish compared to AOW3 on release, but its also MUCH better balanced, and vastly superior in almost every way. I enjoy it even more than AOW3, and I'm anticipating that the dlcs and expansions are going to massively improve it. The base game is great, but the potential is also MUCH higher than any previous AOW game. I STRONGLY endorse it.


I agree with this almost 100%, except I have a slightly different memory of AoW3 at release, and think Planetfall is a smoother, more "complete" experience out of the gate.


IIRC it took a while to get some classes competitive in AoW3. Warlords didn't get the scout for a while, and things like field medic (warlord) wetlands foraging (Goblins) victory rush (Orcs) etc didn't come in for a good long while.


Infact alot of those were directly resultant of the first big mp tournament that Ayenara won, when some glaring weaknesses became, errr, more glaring :O. like lack of healing on Goblins and Orcs.


But Both are fantastic games, but PF is imho the better game. Some edges need smoothing out, and a few qol changes, and it will be gleaming.
 
I´ve played only campaign so far, so not sure about scenarios...well, the AI(on very hard):even in neutral state, they´re useing covert operations to try to steal my energy xD, at war, if it attacks, it sometimes uses damaging strategic spells on my armies or colonies right before attacking, to soften them up; it uses a wide variety of in combat spells in ways that make sense...in combat it can make use of all kinds of mechanics: buffs, debuffs, stagger, its even good at aiming the AoE versions of thouse...it also seems better at keeping its units alive, not rare to find its main stacks having multiple max rank(xp wise) units, and also with the max number of mods. yes, it kinda can play^^
That being said, its choice of mod/unit combinations, and stack composition is kinda suboptimal imo, and it also is very late to build sector upgrades, and doesn´t seem to build the unique city upgrades enabled by rare landmarks(bronze, silver, gold) at all, which can give all units produced in that colony quite the edge.
Most important of all: even in campaign missions were the situation is clear, and me and the AIs are given infinite casus belli(reason for war) against each other, most of them stay in neutral state until I declare war on them, enabling me to take as much time as I want to prepare stuff they can´t handle, move it right up to their borders and stomp them one by one. Because of how easy it is to maintain neutral state with them, I estimate the difficulty of AI(very hard) opponents as "sitting duck".

The game has many mechanical improvements: rollover production and research, seperate military and society research giving us more choices, seperate in combat and out of combat casting points. production costs different form energy/gold/mana costs, buildings costing only production, not energy in most cases. colony/sector militia. I also like the sector system. The NPC factions are fun to interact with, better than independant cities or vassals giving quests. Greater variety of quests(produce, research, kill, clear lair).
No faction has a major mobility advantage in a specific terrain, they all crawl at the same pathetic speed until the terrain specific movement bonus and the movement bonus in owned sectors is researched, which are available to everyone equally...better overall balance, not that its an aspect I particularly care about, but I still can see it...

In my estimation AoW: PF is the better game for competitive multiplayer players.

On the lore and worldbuilding: In addition to the ones on towns and units, there are lore texts on rare landmarks(random out of 3 possible on each), and voiced over lore texts on the popups once a research is completed. awsome^^ . Doctrine descriptions also have a lore and an effect part, clearly seperated so that thouse who only care about the latter can easily skip the former...no wonder Mr.Bingham is busy.

Spoiler Alert:




The campaign...the individual missions are alright, but theres too many characters, with too little text and screentime each, for any of them to "come alive"...or maybe its that we decide who they are, rather then getting to know them...probably both...
Also, despite playing through all small campaigns, and seeing each of the final missions endings, I don´t have a clear enough picture of either of the "enteties" one can side with in the final mission, their motives; role and deeds before the cataclysm; and what they stand for, to decide which ending fits me best xD.

AoW3 is far better in this aspect.
 
I agree with this almost 100%, except I have a slightly different memory of AoW3 at release, and think Planetfall is a smoother, more "complete" experience out of the gate.


IIRC it took a while to get some classes competitive in AoW3. Warlords didn't get the scout for a while, and things like field medic (warlord) wetlands foraging (Goblins) victory rush (Orcs) etc didn't come in for a good long while.


Infact alot of those were directly resultant of the first big mp tournament that Ayenara won, when some glaring weaknesses became, errr, more glaring :O. like lack of healing on Goblins and Orcs.


But Both are fantastic games, but PF is imho the better game. Some edges need smoothing out, and a few qol changes, and it will be gleaming.

That's kind of what I meant actually. Tye game is better at launch definitely. When I talk about polish, I mean the multiple animation/sound effect glitches, rare crash or softlock bugs, minor audio problems, etc.

Personally I haven't experienced any crashes or serious problems, except occasionally hanging on exiting the program. But Skyrim does that like 8 years after release and nobody cares if something hangs when you're trying to close it anyways. Anyways these are all minor issues, but you'll run into them a fair bit at the moment. I went to report them but others already found them and Triumph is knocking the bugs out very quickly, so it's definitely not an issue for me.

Just to give a personal opinion, I found that single player AoW3 was excellent, but not nearly as good as multi-player. Planetfall? My internet is trash right now after I moved and even YouTube hangs often, but I'm having an absolute blast with the game. The 4x elements are just so much better. The single player experience feels, as you said, far more complete than the launch of AOW3.

As weird as it sounds, I'm sort of hesitant to fire up planetfall because I know if I do I'm going to be playing it for at least 4 hours. It's completely absurd how good this game is. I'm routinely awestruck how much fun I have with it.
 
When I talk about polish, I mean the multiple animation/sound effect glitches, rare crash or softlock bugs, minor audio problems, etc.


It is true that these exist, and I think this is due to teh sheer number of units and stuff in the game, that inevitably something, somewhere goes slightly wrong.

I find the biggest "failure" (and I use that word only because I can't think of another one. Failure here is far too strong imho) is that the sound effects could sometimes use more ooomph!

I'm sort of hesitant to fire up planetfall because I know if I do I'm going to be playing it for at least 4 hours.


I fins myself budgeting my time because of this.


Today for example, the sun is out, my main tasks are done apart from one, and the missus wants to hit the beach.

So, I shall finish off main task, hit the beach, get back here in 3 or so hours and have the computer uninterrupted.

Or just not go to the beach, as the sun keeping popping in and out of the clouds.