Tittle says it all. I'm interested in what you all think of this change. I haven't had a chance to see it for myself in action yet and couldn't find any discussion on the forum about it.
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OK here I go.
1. I don't like that there's no more event notification when new institution is available. I tryed out today as Kongo and Ethiopia, both Iron man, and in both cases event didn't fire. Not sure if it wad.
2. I can't speak for other players but I actually like tech penalty if you don't embrace institutions. It's costly, especially if you don't even have Feudalism embraced. But it didn't bothered me.
1. I don't like that there's no more event notification when new institution is available. I tryed out today as Kongo and Ethiopia, both Iron man, and in both cases event didn't fire. Not sure if it wad.
2. I can't speak for other players but I actually like tech penalty if you don't embrace institutions. It's costly, especially if you don't even have Feudalism embraced. But it didn't bothered me.
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I'd say it's about "I've spent the last half an hour trying to undo it through modding" bad. And I couldn't undo it, so it's worse than expected.
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the new tech ui is awful. i used to track if i lagging behind or what but right now you can not understand whats going on with the tech looking by penalty percentage.
this must be revorked in very next update.
i think this is first time i am lagging behind in tech with ottos :S
 (2jpg).jpg "Screenshot (2037) (2jpg).jpg")
 (2jpg).jpg "Screenshot (2038) (2jpg).jpg")
this must be revorked in very next update.
i think this is first time i am lagging behind in tech with ottos :S
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Not a big fan of it in countries that start without Feudalism embraced. Can't even tech up to 3 without overpaying massively as a central African country. Previously you could at least get to 3-4 before the penalty became excessive.
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Bad for polynesians too, taking tech at +50% is too much, so you're basically just going to chain a couple institutions and sit at 2/2/2 until you do (conquering others in reach so they don't out-pace you militarily). I think central Africans want to try to vassal conquer their way into kilwa before it hits tech 4 more than ever, to embrace it that way. I guess you could ally them and get them to offer it after getting land near them too, though I'm not sure that's reliable.
If you're not Mali or Songhai, it's a problem in West Africa too since you don't get any auto-spread. Though sometimes you can pull an alliance with a European and get the later ones.
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Didn't think there was anything 'wrong' with the old system. New System isn't what you would call game-breaking/broken, at least by EU4 standards.
As implemented it seems a lot more forgiving that the screenshot in the relevant dev diary suggested. Penalty now scales to 50% rather than being immediate. That would have made it a total no-brainer to dev for institutions in a lot of ROTW situations.
For context my first playthrough in Origins is Pasai. Think rule of thumb is that if you think you'll be on track to tech up three times or more without an institution then best to just commit to devving for it. For example as Pasai I may eat the 15% penalty to tech up Mil5 so I keep gaining Inno and I can keep warring. But sink all Adm, Dip and a little mil if I have some excess beyond what'll be required to tech up on time into devving for Renaissance before going any further than Adm4 and Dip4.
If you're reasonably sure of getting the Institutionby other means (Car4dinals, natural spread, conquering, knowledge sharing) then you can eat a couple of rounds of the 15% and 30% penalties.
As implemented it seems a lot more forgiving that the screenshot in the relevant dev diary suggested. Penalty now scales to 50% rather than being immediate. That would have made it a total no-brainer to dev for institutions in a lot of ROTW situations.
For context my first playthrough in Origins is Pasai. Think rule of thumb is that if you think you'll be on track to tech up three times or more without an institution then best to just commit to devving for it. For example as Pasai I may eat the 15% penalty to tech up Mil5 so I keep gaining Inno and I can keep warring. But sink all Adm, Dip and a little mil if I have some excess beyond what'll be required to tech up on time into devving for Renaissance before going any further than Adm4 and Dip4.
If you're reasonably sure of getting the Institutionby other means (Car4dinals, natural spread, conquering, knowledge sharing) then you can eat a couple of rounds of the 15% and 30% penalties.
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Upon further investigation, Kongo has a mission to spawn 100 Feudalism progress in their capital, so long as their two starting vassals no longer exist. So you can steal it from there if you help their progress along (or just wait for them to integrate).
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No, before you also started with 50 % penalty in that case. Actually it should be easier now for a while because Renaissance will not affect the low levels.
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I don't think it's really going to matter for most tags. Everyone outside Europe and even some inside europe are going to dev for institutions and if you do that as soon as an insitution spawns nothing changes. It's going to help way behind time tags catch up a little once they unlock an institution, but players tend to be up to date on institutions anyway.
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I find the penalty for not embracing harsher and it come faster.
Before i was able to embrace at ~25% in worst case, now the second tech tied to the institution is already +30% cost.
Before i was able to embrace at ~25% in worst case, now the second tech tied to the institution is already +30% cost.
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Personaly not a fan.
Especialy since the balacing with the Ideagroup techlevel seems to be extra punishing.
Buying tech 5, 7 and 10 with a few % penalty, start to fill out the ideagroup and then decide on when and how to dev push
was ok on a decision level.
Now you always seem to have to decide between paying heavy extra in Adm points or delaying the next ideagroup by a decade or two.
Especialy since the balacing with the Ideagroup techlevel seems to be extra punishing.
Buying tech 5, 7 and 10 with a few % penalty, start to fill out the ideagroup and then decide on when and how to dev push
was ok on a decision level.
Now you always seem to have to decide between paying heavy extra in Adm points or delaying the next ideagroup by a decade or two.
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I agree with this. In the previous system it was the best idea to immediately start deving when the institution spawned if you didn't expect to get it through natural means. There was no reason to wait 2-3 techs after the penalty was introduced unless you urgently needed points for coring or annexing. It's pretty much the same way now.
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There was for very specific tech ups that are notoriously important, such as idea group levels and the occasional large jump in military power; as I've learned from your video, the tech 5 -> 6 jump in particular is nasty; one of the go to strategies for minors with good MIL generation was to wait for that jump. This has been gutted quite a bit.
Aside from that, though, you're right (as you usually are). The whole thing doesn't change anything and sounds like wasted effort, rework for the sake of rework. Either that or someone in Tinto walked into a MP lobby and lost a war due to tech diff and went on to promote this rework out of spite.
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Yeah, you're correct of course. I don't know why I thought you'd start at 0% penalty previously.
I feel like it makes sense. Why should the fact the renaissance has begun, affect a tribe's ability to research Feudal Monarchy or Medieval Military? But, at least to me, it does make sense that researching Renaissance Thought without embracing the renaissance would incur a penalty.
The UI does need work though.
The UI does need work though.
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The UI is awful. Hard to tell at a glance where you stand on tech and institutions.
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If you are in a region without natural spread, then you no longer really have the choice to decide whether its safe to rush for mil tech 5 or 6 and now have to dev push for the institutions. This is especially dangerous for Ethiopia since the mamluks will come knocking, and they will have out teched you being able to save all of their points for techs since they don't generally expand much while you have to rapidly expand to survive against them. They clapped me because I pushed for renaissance and they got tech 6 first.
I believe its good.
Not every corner of the world needs to be available for WC or being a superpower.
Otherwise no matter how many "flavor" you put every country feels the same; due to tech spreading the same.
And the penalty for each age is set to max 50% which I believe it's quite a forgiving system. Since it allows you to tech up 3 more till you reach the "scary" 50% penalty.
I wished it was set to 100%.
The gold penalty, when you build non-embraced tech buildings isn't that much of a big deal too.
Overall it's a quite forgiving system I believe but not as forgiving as the old system I agree. The previous system was a pathetically laughable system to allow more MEME nations on Youtube.
and it isn't that much of a big deal at early since your lands are small and you get to spend a bid DEV and less coin.
Through the game, you will get strong anyways...
But where is the "new institution event" window I wonder? It was a good reminder.
It's clearly done for the sake of stabilization of the game. Calculating penalty ticks would be less cost/effective for the game since it isn't really a groundbreaking feature or even an enjoyable one.
Not every corner of the world needs to be available for WC or being a superpower.
Otherwise no matter how many "flavor" you put every country feels the same; due to tech spreading the same.
And the penalty for each age is set to max 50% which I believe it's quite a forgiving system. Since it allows you to tech up 3 more till you reach the "scary" 50% penalty.
I wished it was set to 100%.
The gold penalty, when you build non-embraced tech buildings isn't that much of a big deal too.
Overall it's a quite forgiving system I believe but not as forgiving as the old system I agree. The previous system was a pathetically laughable system to allow more MEME nations on Youtube.
and it isn't that much of a big deal at early since your lands are small and you get to spend a bid DEV and less coin.
Through the game, you will get strong anyways...
But where is the "new institution event" window I wonder? It was a good reminder.
It's clearly done for the sake of stabilization of the game. Calculating penalty ticks would be less cost/effective for the game since it isn't really a groundbreaking feature or even an enjoyable one.
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I just finished my Mali game and I thought the institution change was fine. Mali's unique gold production estate privilege however is totally horrible.
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