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Pavía

Content Design Lead PDX Tinto
Paradox Staff
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Jan 3, 2006
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Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Maps Feedback post! Today, we will be reviewing the region of South East Asia. Let's start with the list of changes, as usual, although with a prior warning: We worked in parallel in the feedback review of South East Asia and Indonesia, as it was more convenient and efficiente, so there's a common log for both regions, also to make it easier to test it to our QAs. However, we'll present the feedback in two separate posts to make it easier to compare with the original posts. So, what we'll be doing is posting the common log twice, once for each feedback post. Let's now take it a look at it:

ADDITIONS

Added the following:
  • TAGs
    • Kiliman
    • Lanao
    • Ibalon
    • Pulilu
    • Taytay
    • Kumalarang
    • Vientiane
    • Cobra
    • Hkamti
    • Mong Kong
    • Hsawng Hsup
  • Minorities
    • Added the missing cultural and religious minorities of the region

CORRECTIONS

Renamed the following:
  • Locations (only corrections):
    • sinugbohan to irong_irong
    • dumangas to araut
    • virac to vidak
    • himoragat to naga_bikol
    • lagawe to kiyyangan
    • lianga to langan
    • mainit to cabadbaran
    • marakato to makarato
    • baybay to pangasugan
    • vigan to bigan
    • cabagbagototan to kandong
    • tabuk to tobog
    • buayan to makar
    • datu_piang to buayan
    • laillo to lal_lo
    • davao to tagloc
    • linao to bislig
    • davao_gulf to tagloc_gulf
  • Provinces
    • northern_highland_province to madhyamagrama_province
    • angkor_wat_province to angkor_province
    • ilocos_province to samtoy_province
    • maynila_province to katagalugan_province
    • mid_cagayan_province to cordillera_province
    • pantabangan_province to pampanga_province
    • mindoro_province to mait_province
Cultures
  • thai_group
  • shan_group
  • Removed ahom_culture
  • Removed shan_culture
  • dambro_culture
  • tai_long_culture
  • tai_nua_culture
  • tai_lu_culture
  • tai_language_family
    • zhuang_language
    • thai_language
      • dai_dialect
      • thai_dialect
      • shan_dialect
      • lao_dialect
  • kam_language
  • hlai_language
  • kra_language
  • palaungic_language
  • kachinic_language
  • philippine_language_family
    • bikol_language
    • visayan_language
      • hiligaynon_dialect
      • waray_dialect
      • cebuano_dialect
      • southern_visayan_dialect
      • palawanic_dialect
    • danao_language
      • danao_dialect
      • subanon_dialect
      • manobo_dialect
    • kapampangan_language
  • bornean_language_family
    • cham_language
      • achenese_dialect
      • cham_dialect
    • malay_language
      • minangkabau_dialect
      • iban_dialect
      • malay_dialect
      • banjarese_dialect
      • kutai_dialect
    • lampung_language
    • rejang_language
    • madurese_language
    • dayak_language
    • kayanic_language
  • barito_language_family
    • sama_language
  • moluccan_language_family
    • sumba_language
    • maluku_language
    • aru_language
    • tanimbar_language
  • helong_culture
  • hawu_culture
  • asilan_language
  • bahnaric_language
  • katuic_language
  • khmu_language
  • nicobarese_language
  • andamanese_language
  • Removed phuralung_religion
  • ngacang_religion
Raw Goods
  • Changed several Raw Goods as suggested
Terrain and Vegetation
  • Total Review

As you can see, we focused most on the work of correcting errors, and specifically, on the cultural and religious setup, which has undergone great changes. We also gave more granularity in terms of countries to the northern fringes of the region.

Countries:
Countries.png

Countries2.png

Quite a bunch of additions, especially in Northern Birmania, and in the former Kingdom of Dali.

Dynasties
:
Dynasties.png


Country Ranks & Government Types:
Country Ranks.png

Government Types.png

We will be starting soon a world-wide pass on the existing Tribal nations, so feedback regarding them is welcome.

SoPs:
SoPs.png

We removed some of the SoPs, and incorporated them as cultural and religious minorities, although we're also open to feedback regarding that.

Locations:
Locations.png

Locations2.png

Locations3.png

Locations4.png
Not many changes, mostly renaming, as we thought the distribution and density were good enough, and balanced in comparison with India and China. There were very detailed proposals, specifically for Northern Birmania, but we decided against it, so as not to break the location density balance of the region.

Provinces:
Provinces.png

Some renaming here.

Areas:
Areas.png


Terrain:
Topography.png

Vegetation.png

Climate.png

A bunch of reworked stuff here.

Development:
Development.png

Some more different development, mostly as a result of the terrain changes.

Harbors:
Harbors.png


Cultures:
Cultures.png

This is a noticeable change from the original Tinto Maps, as we have now added the cultural minorities and portrayed the cultural diversity of the region in its full glory.

Languages:
Languages.png

Some more rework on the languages.

Religions:
Religions.png

And more minorities, in this case, the religious ones!

Raw Materials:
Raw Materials.png


Markets:
Markets.png

We added two more market centers, in Pinya and Angkor.

And that's all for today! Next Monday, there will be another Tinto Maps Feedback for the region of Indonesia. Cheers!
 
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Good job as always! I've done some research on the region so here's some stuff I found:

-1-The locations of North Andoman, South Andoman, Maungdaw, Talak, Ann, Ramree, Pegu, Ye, Tavoy, Takua Pa, Krabi, Trang, Satingpura, Koh Samui, That thong, Chaiya, Chumphon, Rayong, Mueng Thuog Yai, Panduranga, Kauthara, Hà Vá Nguón, Indrapura, Diên Bàn, Amarendrapura, Visnupura, Vrddha Ratnapura and Phon Nha should all have some minimum natural harbour suitability
-2-Most polities in the northern part of the region like the various Shan states and Chinese Tusi should have a tribal government type
-3-The Yangon river should be sailable up to the location of Dagon, which should also have natural harbour suitability
-4-The Khmer and Lao cultures' map colours are too similar, I suggest changing Lao's colour to something like Vientiane's red
-5-By 1337 Sukhothai's sphere of influence had collapsed and therefore should have no vassals nor tributaries
-6-Some polities which were present in the region at the time are missing, like the Kingdom of Chaliang and Muang Phuan(which was a vassal of Muang Sua in 1337)
-7-The area of Arakhan should be spelled as Arakan
-8-The area of Shan Highland could just be called Shan
-9-The area of Irrawady should be renamed to either Upper Burma or just Burma while the area of Irrawady Delta to either Lower Burma or Mon
-10-The areas of Zo hills and Kachin should be respectively renamed to Magwe and Sagaing
-11-The area of Red River Delta should be renamed to either Ðàng Ngoài, Bác Hà or Tonkin while the area of Champa to either Ðàng Trong, Nam Hà or Cochinchina
-12-The area of Northern Tai Highland should be renamed to Thai Highlands, the area of Lower Mekong to Cambodia and finally the area of Chao Phraya to Siam
 
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Why are there soo few duchies :'(
It's super difficult to translate the 'Duchy' rank and hierarchy to other types of polities, outside of Europe. Open to suggestions regarding this, as usual.
 
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I’d like to humbly request that Dai Viet gets a different color. As a Viet, it pains me to try to make a beautiful empire in EU4 but it’s ruined by the dreary brown lol. Yellow would be so much more fitting.
 
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It's super difficult to translate the 'Duchy' rank and hierarchy to other types of polities, outside of Europe. Open to suggestions regarding this, as usual.
I think that Hanthawaddy, Lan Na and Lavo should be kingdoms knowing they considered themselves so, they also lasted relatively long and were usually indipendent/semi autonomous for most of their existance, regarding duchy maybe some of the bigger self-procalimed kingdoms that are or used to be subject or tributaries of others in the region could pass as duchy(e.g. Ligor, Phetchaburi Muang Sua...)
 
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Has any progress been made on the year-round mountain snowcaps for the terrain view? I'd love to see the Himalayas and Northern Arakan ranges in white.
They looked fantastic the last time we saw them, but that was definitely the missing piece.
 
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I'm not knowledgeable on the specifics, but I still have doubts that Satsana Phi is a good choice for Hlai, Maonan, Kuy and Khmu cultures given they are not Tai peoples.

There's also the issue of 'Eastern Buddhism' in Laos, it's true they followed Mahayana but AFAIK they were not in the sinosphere nor did they have any connection to Daoism + Confucianism which as I understand are built in to the 'Eastern Buddhist' religion.
 
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Could we see the population map? Or are they still being reworked?
We fixed the issues we had with our tools, and we're now finishing some remaining stuff. I think that I'll probably prepare a dedicated post in a few weeks, as there are a few regions that are missing those maps.
 
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It's embarrassing how little I know about this region...

Let's hope EU5 will be as fun as it will be educational :D
I recommend 'A History of Thailand' by Chris Baker for an introduction into Thailand specifically - it's a very readable start if you're unfamiliar.
 
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Countries_20250705105236.jpg
Locations_20250706132939.jpg

General thread on content and flavour suggestions:

There are still a lot of errors for the names of locations in northern Burma, the density was not so much the main issue highlighted in my post. For example, you still have 2 locations named "Mohnyin" and "Möngyang", which is just the same settlement rendered into its Burmese and Shan name. I would suggest looking at this post again:

There are also a lot more changes which could be made to the country setup and characters, which are highlighted in these 2 posts (posted quite recently, so may have been missed):

Some of the countries that were added in northern Burma are actually unhistorical though, which I talked about a little already in this post:

And, finally, I had made some more comments on the culture setup in Burma/Yunnan, the diversity of cultures right now is good but there should still be a majority Tai/Shan population in certain areas. Generally speaking, Kado, Ngac'ang, Danu and Palaung should more realistically be significant minorities within Tai-Shan populations (say, a 55:45 ratio of Tai:Minorities) rather than them being the primary majority:
 
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