Tomorrow Belongs To Me - A 'Democratic' Germany AAR

[TheButterflyComposer]

Thinking about it, with the vast majority of the Afrikaner population transported to the Congo, it would probably have a well develloped local political class and representative bodies. It'd be fun to see famous Afrikaner politicians operate within the wider Dutch political sphere.

Given the Congo would be a pretty significant settler colony for a netherlands that, even unifed, doesn't have the largest population...maybe 10 to 15 million people 1900, if the unity promoted something of a population boom plus less emmigration.

The congo by itself in 1900 had something like 8 to 9 million people. Roughly 1 million afrikaners in 1900, and that was after two wars that hit them quite hard.

if most of the Afrikaner TTL went to the Congo in the decades before, roughly from the 1870s onwards once it was clear the British wanted them away from the Cape and the Congo was a viable alternative, and had roots established by 1900, topped up by the last remnants being slightly less politely forced out by the british...the Congo has a significantly larger white/coloniser population, and it's only going to get bigger.

Thinking about it, the Congo would actually have a proper 'settled' coastline and growing urban core. So we'd have the roughly 8 million natives, plus 1 to 2 million afrikanners, topped up by recent dutch immigration, colonial authority hires, crown representatives, merchants and families etx. And once such a settler colony gets going, immigration has a tendency to exponentially increase, and never more so in a place as rich for exploitation as the Congo was. Land grants, clearances and plentiful local workers means any sufficiently ambitious dutchman might try their hand at the place in the early 20th century.

 

[jak7139]

The Earl of Atherleigh was no more.

Well, did not see that coming. Talk about escalation!

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Well, did not see that coming. Talk about escalation!

The scene of Ouster getting his eye knifed, and Atherleigh being poisoned at a high table dinner, were two scenes that have been rattling around in my head for years. Glad I finally got to do them.

 

[DensleyBlair]

I don't doubt an episode covered this specifically but as many have sword fights, which one are you referring to?

The first proper Capaldi one, where they find themselves in London fighting another iteration of those clockwork androids we first saw under Tennant in ancien régime France. This time, one of them has a prosthetic hand that functions as a blowtorch. Useful for Radcliffe to light his cigars with.

Several chapters left to go, but thank you very much. I do like writing the war in depth, and having all these characters who will spend most of the story in middle age being young and daft is rather compelling. They aren't quite the protagonists yet, with the older generations still retaining centre stage (and making their future jobs harder/more complicated as they do).

I think this is why I keep being put in mind of Blimp. It’s that wonderful thing of humanising the men who by the time of the second war are the old duffers everyone else is racing to leave behind. I can’t of course speak yet for whether that will be true of this world, but it’s very well done regardless.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

The first proper Capaldi one, where they find themselves in London fighting another iteration of those clockwork androids we first saw under Tennant in ancien régime France. This time, one of them has a prosthetic hand that functions as a blowtorch. Useful for Radcliffe to light his cigars with.

Ah yes. A very weird episode, as the first episode of a new doctor almost always is.

I think this is why I keep being put in mind of Blimp. It’s that wonderful thing of humanising the men who by the time of the second war are the old duffers everyone else is racing to leave behind. I can’t of course speak yet for whether that will be true of this world, but it’s very well done regardless.

Given the ages of the people in charge currently, most of them presumably will be dead by the late 30s and early 40s.

Ouster will be 58 in 1939.
Rodger - 50
David - 45
Vlast - 38

For comparison, Kitchener would be 89. The Duke would be 104.

The Old Guard were already pretty old in 1914, which is why a lot of them were already retired and had to be brought back in. The 20s will see a massive shift towards a much younger generation taking the reigns of power and money, flecked through with those who managed to survive/had reached the top flight during the war itself.

 

[DensleyBlair]

“Major Churchill, sirs,” an extremely soaked man walked through, and Rodger caught through the open door the doorman despairing at the sodden hats and coats in his hands.

Ah. I’d really thought you were serious with the whole “fell down a well” routine. Well, I suppose there’s no avoiding the bugger is there.

And the 15th December 1915 has finally ended after several months.

I commend you on a fine example of AARcraft conducted at the right and proper pace.

The Earl of Atherleigh was no more.

This whole episode was quite the ride. As you say, a great way to cut through the ranks of the grey hair brigade and free up space for the younger talent sooner. But as I see the Earl has a bit more life in him yet I’ll look forward to seeing what good(?) he puts his second chance at old age towards.

 

[DensleyBlair]

I hadn’t realised it, but I seem to have caught up. Good stuff, Butterfly. Eagerly awaiting more. In anticipation I share my final thought so far, which is:

aided by the survival of both Reginald McKenna and the Earl of Atherleigh, who could take leadership of their respective parties.

I have never before seen a Reg McKenna timeline. Truly this world has everything.

 

[jak7139]

“Quiet,” the Earl of Atherleigh ordered. “I ask you all to not panic.”

Some are born great, some become great, others have greatness thrust upon them. Rodger was nearly all three. It depends how well his father heals after all this.

“Dear Lord…I pray we had nothing to do with it.”

“Why? Good riddance to bad rubbish.”

“Because they’ll use it against us internationally, and can also justify striking directly at our government, army heads and the Kaiser.”

Ouster is thinking strategically, geopolitically, like a good leader should. Assassinating the enemies' leaders is well and good, but what does it achieve. Fighting a war is good, but what does it achieve. How do these things help Germany, or any country win.

“Death,” Ouster responded.

The only thing certain, besides taxes.

In history, one thing you find is assaination plots are rather common, and they are almost always really poorly thought out, involve all kinds of weird groups doing different things, and shambolic even if they work out (I.e. the target dies, one way or another).

This is true. Lincoln, Garfield, Caesar, Franz Ferdinand. A lot of conspirators either got extremely lucky or had no plan for what to do after they succeeded.

Curzon and Chamberlain appeared to still be holding to the latest truce he had managed to negotiate, possibly because since then, they had united against the arrival of Andrew Bonar Law

Who is Law and what's his deal?

Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster – Marquess of Sailsbury (T)

Is Lancaster really such a big deal that an entire cabinet position is created for it? Interesting. Why?

 

[DensleyBlair]

Who is Law and what's his deal?

Andrew Bonar Law. Shortest serving PM of the 20th century. Until a certain disgraced recent holder of the office who happened to be born in New York City came along, he was also the only man born outside Great Britain or Ireland ever to have become prime minister.

Very handy to know about if you’re competing in a pub quiz. Otherwise, a bit of a nonentity in the scheme of things.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Ah. I’d really thought you were serious with the whole “fell down a well” routine. Well, I suppose there’s no avoiding the bugger is there.

So, in the spirit of doing things differently, he was definitely dead up until this chapter, when I found him too useful not to use. Early 1900s Churchill is so...odd. He's got a lot of political contradictions about him, and has even more TTL due to his family falling out with the Tories and Atherleigh in particular.

He rather quickly became a character who might wish he was dead. He had an even rougher time in the army and war correspondent career than OTL, was slower to get into politics as a result, and as soon as he started climbing the greasy pole, the one he was on was set on fire. Having barely recovered from that when the war started, he instead joins the army again, has a miserable year in France and then torches his political career again because he feels he has to.

This almost certainly isn't the last bad thing to happen to him either. The Liberals are not going to forget this.

I commend you on a fine example of AARcraft conducted at the right and proper pace.

And then of course, the 5th and 6th of January lasted bloody ages.

This whole episode was quite the ride. As you say, a great way to cut through the ranks of the grey hair brigade and free up space for the younger talent sooner. But as I see the Earl has a bit more life in him yet I’ll look forward to seeing what good(?) he puts his second chance at old age towards.

The fates and dice rolls granted him a reprevie, but he's been badly hurt by this and will not be the same again. Which is a big problem for everyone because he was personally holding the national government together by being (yet again) a compromise agent between the Liberal PM and the increasingly powerful Tories, and was also the de facto leader of the Entente war effort everywhere outside of the Western Front.

As bad a decision as it was for any German to be involved in the plot, it would have genuinely been a ghastly mess had they managed to kill Asquith, Balfour AND Atherleigh all at once.

I have never before seen a Reg McKenna timeline. Truly this world has everything.

After looking at who would and wouldn't be in TTL cabinet, and who would be at the banquet, McKenna is the natural caretaker leader of the Liberals and basically the only candidate for PM at this time (the only other option is Atherleigh, who is physically incapable as well as probably politically unacceptable long term).

Some are born great, some become great, others have greatness thrust upon them. Rodger was nearly all three. It depends how well his father heals after all this.

The chapter goes into, and later ones will carry on discussing, how Rodger is on borrowed time. Hes going to get the responsibilities and titles one day. The Duke is really old and already ill. Atherleigh is also quite old and had prior serious injuries. If either die, Rodger becomes a very significant peer.

However ill fitting and uncomfortable the mantel was, he did put it on and will find it difficult to go back to how he was before.

Ouster is thinking strategically, geopolitically, like a good leader should. Assassinating the enemies' leaders is well and good, but what does it achieve. Fighting a war is good, but what does it achieve. How do these things help Germany, or any country win.

He's slowly burning away the bad habits, training and idealogy that his upbringing and education and family and country gave him, and starting to utilise what he has in the ways he views best.

He's still got a long way to go before he's what you would call a good person or a good leader of a country though.

This is true. Lincoln, Garfield, Caesar, Franz Ferdinand. A lot of conspirators either got extremely lucky or had no plan for what to do after they succeeded.

Any fictional plot aiming to be true to life should have the reader marvelling at how such a bunch of idiots and oftentimes genuinely mentally ill people could construct such labyrinthine schemes and then random bad/good luck let's them get away with it. Or not, as the case may be.

Who is Law and what's his deal?

Andrew Bonar Law. Shortest serving PM of the 20th century. Until a certain disgraced recent holder of the office who happened to be born in New York City came along, he was also the only man born outside Great Britain or Ireland ever to have become prime minister.

Very handy to know about if you’re competing in a pub quiz. Otherwise, a bit of a nonentity in the scheme of things.

In terms of OTL, the compromise distant third place leadership contender for the tories in the 1910s, with the two frontrunners withdrawing for fears of splitting the party. As such, became tory leader by default and thus held a lot of rather important cabinet positions during the war and national governmnet.

However, lost the struggle for PM after the fall of Asquith to David Lloyd George (and not trying too hard to begin with), then becoming PM outright when the Liberals collapsed post war. Was by this time quite old and seriously ill with cancer (and if that sounds familiar to several other characters already mentioned in this AAR, it does seem to have happened quite a lot to ww1 figures), and so he died within a year of holding the premiership.

Here, the Tories have a few more options and thus, Bonar Law is a senior cabinet member but not a serious contender for the leadership unless the party picks him as a compromise again.

Arguably was actually pretty good at modernising the tories again, brought in a lot more businessmen, and the rather...confrontational speaking style that became dominant parliamentary style of the 20th century.

OTL, Chamberlain had the favour of the senior tories and the whips, and so without Law, probably would have become leader. TTL, the party might be even more split as Curzon is still around, as the Old Atherlite candidate, Chamberlain is the New Atherlite, and various others are around too.

Is Lancaster really such a big deal that an entire cabinet position is created for it? Interesting. Why?

It's actually the highest ranking cabinet position after the Prime Minister, in order of precedence (though not really political reality, of course).

They are nominally in charge of the Duchy of Lancaster's books and earnings - that is, the sovereign's royal duchy. Obviously, that has long been deputised, and so even in the early 20th century, the position was essentially Minister without Portfolio. A cabinet role for a key ally, or additional title for another cabinet member, or bascially an excuse to have someone in cabinet but not actually give them an official job to do. It was also a way of viciously demoting a cabinet minister without sacking them completely (Churchill got the Duchy after being booted out of the Admiralty).

Long and short of it - yes, the Duchy is a big deal (in modern terms, a multi-billion pound estate with a ton of prestige and royal power attached) and the very flexible cabinet position is a really useful one for any PM to have in their arsenal.

 

[Historywhiz]

Any fictional plot aiming to be true to life should have the reader marvelling at how such a bunch of idiots and oftentimes genuinely mentally ill people could construct such labyrinthine schemes and then random bad/good luck let's them get away with it. Or not, as the case may be.

If an outcome has a 0.01% chance of happening in a situation, yet 10,000 instances of that situation happen, there’s roughly a 63% chance that the outcome will happen at least once.

Yes it’s remarkably difficult and unlikely for such people to successfully carry out such a scheme, but it doesn’t matter, because there’s millions upon millions of idiots and mentally ill people out there.

 

[jak7139]

All caught up!

A hospital at night is a confusing place, filled with hot and freezing rooms, empty and bursting corridors, silent and screaming bodies.

It is. Especially after assassination and government turmoil.

The Duke was openly discussing his private information network, that was considerably linked to the three intelligence operations of the British government. None of which, of course, officially and most assuredly, existed.

At some point in the 20th century when an "on-the-books" intelligence agency is created, the politicians are going to have to explain why such a force already exists.

and so, the conspirators planned a final move to cover their tracks, spook their victims into permanent silence, and in such a way their superiors could not punish them.”

In trying to cover up a lie, it only grows larger. I suspect this eventually happens to the British government's own cover-up efforts post-war. Maybe some of it even leaks out before Versailles, causing some tension at the conference.

Kitchener stood and placed both hands on the desk before the Duke. “Listen to me carefully, you old bastard. Your organisation is compromised, your secrets nearly killed your son and did kill several fine gentlemen.” He flinched away from the knowledge of what one of them was actually doing. “Your treason is no less treacherous than this one,” he indicated Henry. “This dark mystery shall remain as such, but you are also going to vanish. Fuck off back to your estate and rot there, old man. Clean up your organisation and then shut it down. You and it can no longer be trusted with the security of the United Kingdom, and perhaps never should have been.”

He stood upright and made his way towards the door. “Under protest, this case must remain unanswered. But should anything arise, I will bury you alive and take pleasure in doing so. And if you dare threaten me again, I will shoot you myself.”

Kitchener gives a great speech...

He opened the door and had very nearly shut it behind him when the quiet voice of the Duke came out. “I have your letters, you know.”

...but he's a politician with his own secrets too. If the Duke goes, Kitchener goes, the government goes, then the UK is in crisis and fumbles the war.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

If an outcome has a 0.01% chance of happening in a situation, yet 10,000 instances of that situation happen, there’s roughly a 63% chance that the outcome will happen at least once.

Yes it’s remarkably difficult and unlikely for such people to successfully carry out such a scheme, but it doesn’t matter, because there’s millions upon millions of idiots and mentally ill people out there.

Just so.

Especially after assassination and government turmoil.

Especially in this period.

At some point in the 20th century when an "on-the-books" intelligence agency is created, the politicians are going to have to explain why such a force already exists.

In OTL, there were several branches of government you could call intelligence gathering and spying organisations even before WW1, and three of them are described in-chapter. Of these, naval intelligence and foreign office intelligence grew into most of the alphabet organisations we had or have (so far as we know, of course).

The oldest is probably the FO one, given spying has always been a part of embassies and ambassadors. But the naval one became increasingly useful then vital as the Royal Navy became so large and far flung, and was also more protected as a military operation from scrutiny.

TTL, William Radcliffe made great use of spies and organised the offices a lot more than they previously had, as part of essentially creating the modern civil service to fight Napolean. The third Duke expanded these operations extensively in the mid 19th century, and also built his own private one using his growing hotel network. Then Atherleigh obviously made use of all three as PM and afterwards, and even Rodger, being an Admiral, has links to naval intelligence.

It's one of those issues that slowly grows until all involved realise what a problem it actually is, after it nearly causes catastrophe.

As for admitting they exist...they did not OTL until the 70s and 80s, and now utilise the overt covert approach in the same way most western governments do. Yes, they have these offices. Yes, you sort of know what they do. But you won't find out specifics until years after the reslly nasty stuff was done/comes to light.

In trying to cover up a lie, it only grows larger. I suspect this eventually happens to the British government's own cover-up efforts post-war. Maybe some of it even leaks out before Versailles, causing some tension at the conference.

It's the first instinct of any government. Something occurs, cover it up, think about it later. Hopefully much later when everyone involved is dead and a future government can thus apologise and do nothing.

In the case of even a hint of some in Parliament being compromised, no matter the reason, and the now dead and soon to be lionised PM engaging in a lot of cheating on his wife whilst also sharing extremely secret documents with his mistress to the extent he didn't have them in important cabinet meetings (yes, this bit is OTL) in wartime...yeah, everyone involved will want this buried for as long as possible for various reasons.

Kitchener gives a great speech...

...but he's a politician with his own secrets too. If the Duke goes, Kitchener goes, the government goes, then the UK is in crisis and fumbles the war.

Even Kitchener, because it would seriously hamper the war effort for it to come to light that every Entente power had important figures blackmailed by the enemy into sharing secrets, and also the military and government and a private family is spying on people, AND his boss was a filanderer who also technically committed treason.

He's too responsible to do otherwise, though also too principled not to sternly tell off the man who he blames for much of it, to his face.

Which, of course, opens him up to be hit by a gentle reminder he is also hiding something, and the Duke in his final years has no problem tearing down anyone who gets in his way now.

 

[El Pip]

I have never before seen a Reg McKenna timeline. Truly this world has everything.

He is one of those people who had a strong reputation at the time, but then faded away very rapidly after his death, outside of a few people of erudition and discerning interests of course. I wonder if his move to become a banker after the end of his political career played a big part in that?

After looking at who would and wouldn't be in TTL cabinet, and who would be at the banquet, McKenna is the natural caretaker leader of the Liberals and basically the only candidate for PM at this time (the only other option is Atherleigh, who is physically incapable as well as probably politically unacceptable long term).

That he is the only candidate does speak pretty poorly about the calibre of what is left. Then again that was the OTL position, multiple attempts to drag him back into parliament after the 1918 Asquith Liberal wipe out because there as no other decent option. OTL of course he never really wanted to be PM or even party leader, I think in part because he knew was too technocratic and not clubbable enough for what was required. Wildly different circumstances here of course, but it still doesn't feel a good time for a technocrat at the top.

He was very strongly against conscription and anyone in favour of it (like Kitchener), which will be tricky as 1916 was the year Britain had to introduce it so that decision is looming. On the plus side this might have got him out of the Treasury before he makes some of his less than optimal decisions about the war loans, though of course there is no guarantee any replacement won't make bigger mistakes. Interesting to see how it works out.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

He is one of those people who had a strong reputation at the time, but then faded away very rapidly after his death, outside of a few people of erudition and discerning interests of course. I wonder if his move to become a banker after the end of his political career played a big part in that?

It says something that despite being Home Secretary and Chancellor during a world war, his Wikipedia lists him as a banker first before Liberal politician. He's actually held a surprising number of cabinet positions, and did some very important things at each post. And yet...nothing.

That he is the only candidate does speak pretty poorly about the calibre of what is left. Then again that was the OTL position, multiple attempts to drag him back into parliament after the 1918 Asquith Liberal wipe out because there as no other decent option.

Yeah, the Liberals have some pretty big problems as soon as the war is over or the National Government ends, whichever happens first. The 'strange' collapse of Liberal power is a bit less mysterious when you have a look at who was in charge and on the front bench during the first two decades of the 20th century.

OTL of course he never really wanted to be PM or even party leader, I think in part because he knew was too technocratic and not clubbable enough for what was required. Wildly different circumstances here of course, but it still doesn't feel a good time for a technocrat at the top.

People certainly knew that, and said as much. Despite afore mentioned being pretty important in moving things on and doing arguably good things in all his posts, no one seemed to like him...then again, he appears to have attracted the ire and attention of the DLG/Churchill wing, who are of course dead and buried TTL, so he might be riding higher than OTL.

He was very strongly against conscription and anyone in favour of it (like Kitchener), which will be tricky as 1916 was the year Britain had to introduce it so that decision is looming.

He didn't seem to like Kitchener anyway. He's on the Left side of the Liberals and pushing for more, plus didn't like the Coalition government idea or many people in the 1915 Liberal or Tory parties.

On the plus side this might have got him out of the Treasury before he makes some of his less than optimal decisions about the war loans, though of course there is no guarantee any replacement won't make bigger mistakes. Interesting to see how it works out.

The choice the King and the two leaders plus their senior leadership now have to make is who is to become PM: McKenna or Atherleigh. Despite the former being healthier, party leader of the largest party, and the normal choice...no one really likes him, the Liberals are only with him to avoid a split, and in practice, Atherleigh was already running the war effort and unofficial leader of the Entente.

But is Atherleigh capable of still doing all that, plus being official PM again? And will both parties accept that in the circumstances?

If McKenna is picked, he'll need to be replaced at the Treasury, yes.

 

[jak7139]

Also meant to add my two cents to the split up of Germany:

How divided Germany become really depends on whether the Reds win in Russia, which hasn't been established yet. If the RCW still goes historically, and if the Russo-Polish war still happens, the Entente are probably more willing to have a strong Germany that isn't as divided. Maybe early Soviet success in Poland/Ukraine lets much of Germany come together without ruffling too many Entente feathers. Eventually Russia gets defeated in Poland as happened OTL, but by then fears of Communism spreading west have taken the pressure off Germany a little bit. Also, the West probably prefers a strong Germany over a strong Poland because Germany has the proven legacy/prestige of being a former Great Power.

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Also meant to add my two cents to the split up of Germany:

How divided Germany become really depends on whether the Reds win in Russia, which hasn't been established yet. If the RCW still goes historically, and if the Russo-Polish war still happens, the Entente are probably more willing to have a strong Germany that isn't as divided. Maybe early Soviet success in Poland/Ukraine lets much of Germany come together without ruffling too many Entente feathers. Eventually Russia gets defeated in Poland as happened OTL, but by then fears of Communism spreading west have taken the pressure off Germany a little bit. Also, the West probably prefers a strong Germany over a strong Poland because Germany has the proven legacy/prestige of being a former Great Power.

Yeah, I'm very much of the mind that between the end of the war itself and Versaille, so much will happen that the British at least will be forced back to thinking pragmatically about the continent - and everyone else will be more easily swept into fuck Germany/but also COMMUNISM!

If Vlast ever meets Lenin, he'll be fascinated by the latter's philosophy and strategy in regards to bringing about a communist state, but also have some fundamental issues with it. But as most socialists are banished from the realm, and have been supresed within it by a very effective secret police force (up to this point anyway), the likely introduction Vlast will have to that will be via Marxist writing, and maybe via Stalin, given he was at this time a bandit and bank robber.

 

[J_Master]

The fates and dice rolls granted him a reprevie, but he's been badly hurt by this and will not be the same again. Which is a big problem for everyone because he was personally holding the national government together by being (yet again) a compromise agent between the Liberal PM and the increasingly powerful Tories, and was also the de facto leader of the Entente war effort everywhere outside of the Western Front.

Honestly, it would be interesting if the Earl were to die during some later point during the war simply because of his advanced age, the stress of the war and the sustained injuries. It's not unlikely IMO.

In trying to cover up a lie, it only grows larger. I suspect this eventually happens to the British government's own cover-up efforts post-war. Maybe some of it even leaks out before Versailles, causing some tension at the conference.

From this conclusion the whole discussion on the future of Germany was based, simply because once this leaks Germany must pay

...but he's a politician with his own secrets too. If the Duke goes, Kitchener goes, the government goes, then the UK is in crisis and fumbles the war.

By the point this leaks, it's likely the Western Entente is in such a good position that a British crisis in leadership can be survived.

He was very strongly against conscription and anyone in favour of it (like Kitchener), which will be tricky as 1916 was the year Britain had to introduce it so that decision is looming. On the plus side this might have got him out of the Treasury before he makes some of his less than optimal decisions about the war loans, though of course there is no guarantee any replacement won't make bigger mistakes. Interesting to see how it works out.

I also doubt that the need for manpower would be so pressing on the UK. One, Ireland's fully integrated and unbelievably prosporous. Two, Britain has pushed her Iberian allies into the war as a source of manpower. Three, what we've been told about the war indicates that Britain has handled her manpower pool much better. It has the manpower on hand to create a couple of armies that Fisher can fire at the Germans through Royal Navy cannons.

People certainly knew that, and said as much. Despite afore mentioned being pretty important in moving things on and doing arguably good things in all his posts, no one seemed to like him...then again, he appears to have attracted the ire and attention of the DLG/Churchill wing, who are of course dead and buried TTL, so he might be riding higher than OTL.

Maybe the party would fare better with a competent but otherwise unremarkable technocrat at the helm, as a means of riding out the storm left by the dead generation untill a new generation can pick up with a renewed energetic type of leadership.

If Vlast ever meets Lenin, he'll be fascinated by the latter's philosophy and strategy in regards to bringing about a communist state, but also have some fundamental issues with it. But as most socialists are banished from the realm, and have been supresed within it by a very effective secret police force (up to this point anyway), the likely introduction Vlast will have to that will be via Marxist writing, and maybe via Stalin, given he was at this time a bandit and bank robber.

Lenin and his vanguard party political methods continue to inspire politics to this day, it would a shame to not have the two meet in the breakdown of Tsarist authority that is set to happen, especially if it includes some intelectual sparring between the two. In the same topic, Vlast's intelectual devellopment wouldn't only be through marxism in the field of socialism, especially if I'm to believe this video

I've seen it before, the talk of Vlast's devellopment and the mention of Lenin reminded me of it

 

[TheButterflyComposer]

Honestly, it would be interesting if the Earl were to die during some later point during the war simply because of his advanced age, the stress of the war and the sustained injuries. It's not unlikely IMO.

He's in the Ouster position of his generation and alliance, in that if he makes it to Versaille, he's likely to lead the Entente negotiations and be listened to quite a bit by all sides, even those that disagree vehemently.

So if he dies before the conference but after the war ends, aka before anyone could hope to try and replace him in any capacity, the Conference devolves into the OTL squabbling with no towering figure like the First Duke to impose at least some direction and unity of purpose.

From this conclusion the whole discussion on the future of Germany was based, simply because once this leaks Germany must pay

Indeed. And Germany has their counter too, which is technically they didn't have anything to do with it, it was two guards and a few rogue agents who they already have in custody. No one will believe them for decades of course and even 100 years later, historians will be arguing over it, but pop culturally, the Reich did the 12th Night Massacre, and they will be got for that.

The British have to decide how to play it in the press, essentially blaming Germany and treacherous groups without going too far and making Germany utilise all the information they sweated from the blackmail scheme. Sure, easily dismissed as war time propaganda for the most part but Asquith's indiscretions by itself could destroy the national government and really hurt the liberal party.

By the point this leaks, it's likely the Western Entente is in such a good position that a British crisis in leadership can be survived.

Probably, though a British crisis is always going to be the big worry for the whole Entente, because they control all the money, and everyone else in the Entente will be increasingly dependent on whatever the British can get them.

I also doubt that the need for manpower would be so pressing on the UK. One, Ireland's fully integrated and unbelievably prosporous.

In comparison to our timeline, certainly.

Fixing their domestic farming during and after the Napoleonic wars means most of the island is as fertile as England is, with a population that can suddenly easily feed itself and has an industrilsing country right next to it that needs more workers and a lot of raw resources and food, stuff ireland had plenty of. At the time of union in 1800, it had a population of 4 to 5 million, which then doubled in a few decades. It was on the way to becoming the second major nation of the union OTL until the famine. Here, due to agcrotural reform and various other things, the blights that do occur are nowhere near as hard hitting or apocalyptic to population numbers. So the island continued to grow and boom and bust much like the wider union did throughout the long 19th century.

Starting in the 20th century, industry is finally starting to get going outside of brewing and textiles, the university towns are rather growing cities, Dublin is a capital of culture as well as vice, and Ireland has been the home of several huge army bases and schools for a century.

Ireland's been the kingdom's breadbasket, in the same way Scotland was the font of invention and England all the money and industry.

For war purposes, food is a bit more plentfiul domestically, though still not enough to feed everyone without rationing and a lot of imports, and also the British also have at least a million more men who join up voluntarily, and a lot more they can compel via conscription if needs be.

Two, Britain has pushed her Iberian allies into the war as a source of manpower.

Very handy, due to...

Three, what we've been told about the war indicates that Britain has handled her manpower pool much better. It has the manpower on hand to create a couple of armies that Fisher can fire at the Germans through Royal Navy cannons.

This had consequences of course, for France and the Netherlands. The Germans have been able to keep smashing against the weaker Western Front for longer due to the entente armies simply not being as large as OTL. They've gotten further, done a lot more damage, and the French have bled heavily.

But, it does mean the British have been able to use some of the pre war proffesionals to train up huge armies for war. A lot are going to the western front and there's no avoiding that, but they'll be going to flanders to help with Operation Austerlitz (not that any of them know that yet), rather than joining up with the French to just...try and do big forward pushes against german trenches.

Still, it doesn't get away from the fact that eventually most British forces are going to be committed to the trenches. It's just that the nation is hoping they get to suprise the Germans and make them as deep into the Netherlands as possible before they are halted.

Maybe the party would fare better with a competent but otherwise unremarkable technocrat at the helm, as a means of riding out the storm left by the dead generation untill a new generation can pick up with a renewed energetic type of leadership.

The post war issues of left and right wing liberalism are yet to be resolved, and are actually worse than OTL, where the leftwing had accomplished a lot of their goals pre war with the national insurance, Lords reform and the people's budget.

Lenin and his vanguard party political methods continue to inspire politics to this day, it would a shame to not have the two meet in the breakdown of Tsarist authority that is set to happen, especially if it includes some intelectual sparring between the two. In the same topic, Vlast's intelectual devellopment wouldn't only be through marxism in the field of socialism, especially if I'm to believe this video

I've seen it before, the talk of Vlast's devellopment and the mention of Lenin reminded me of it

He wasn't in the strictest sense. He thought he could create the proletariat feeling and identity in a non-industrilised people, and that given time, even the peasants might be forced into developing class consciousness.

He was right, for the most part, and that's why a lot of parties after him followed his methods...to a point.

 

[DensleyBlair]

Ireland's been the kingdom's breadbasket, in the same way Scotland was the font of invention and England all the money and industry.

And Wales as usual left off in the corner trying to work out whether it is a country or not.

We should’ve found the anthracite by now, mind. That counts for something.