Total Silesia Expansion

[Sopelsky]

Introduction (you can skip it, but it's good to know ):

Historically united Silesia existed only in years 1138-1163 (long time before action of EU4 starts):
▪ in years 1138-1146 ruled by Władysław II the Exile
▪ in years 1146-1163 ruled by Bolesław IV the Curly
In fact, the first partitioning of Silesia happened in 1172 according to Testament of Bolesław III Wrymouth, son's of Władysław II were given following provinces:

(source: pl.wikipedia.org)
In the next years Silesia was being fragmentated to smaller and smaller duchies.

The maps i base on:
1) HRE 1400: http://www.maproom.org/00/08/present.php?m=0030
2) HRE 1480: http://www.maproom.org/00/08/present.php?m=0034

Suggestions:
* MAIN SUGGESTION FOR SILESIA *
As we know, by 1444 all Silesian duchies are vassals of Bohemia. I think it would be great if all these duchies were able to fight between each other, or at least have big chance to form some Personal Unions. All these duchies will also have an option to form Silesia, but only if they are independent nation.

1) Duchy of Opole
- province 14 (Tax: 5, Production: 6, Manpower: 3)
- province 8 (Tax: 2, Production: 2, Manpower: 1)
- formable Raciborz-Opole duchy (when it's 1521 or later)
- releasable nation: Duchy of Niemodlin (province 8)

2) Duchy of Glogow
- province 5 (Tax: 4, Production: 2, Manpower: 3)
- province 6 (Tax: 2, Production: 2, Manpower: 2)
- event: "Succession of Zagan":
1) Zagan becomes free duchy with Glowgow's heir as a duke
2) 6 regiments raise in Zagan

3) Duchy of Jawor
- province 3 (Tax: 3, Production: 3, Manpower: 2)
- formable Jawor-Świdnica duchy

4) Duchy of Swidnica
- province 2 (Tax: 2, Production: 3, Manpower: 1)
- formable Jawor-Świdnica duchy

5) Duchy of Opava
- province 12 (Tax: 4, Production: 2, Manpower: 2)

6) Duchy of Nysa (Bishorpic)
- province 9 (Tax: 4, Production: 3, Manpower: 1)

7) Duchy of Raciborz:
- formable Raciborz-Opole duchy (when it's 1521 or later)
- province 11 (Tax: 3, Production: 3, Manpower: 2)

8) Duchy of Cieszyn
- province 13 (Tax: 2, Production: 4, Manpower: 1)

9) Duchy of Legnica
- province 7 (Tax: 3, Production: 4, Manpower: 3)
- Event - "University in Legnica"
1) Lose 250 ducats -> builds university +1 base tax, +1 base manpower
2) Abandon the idea

10) Duchy of Oleśnica
- province 4 (Tax: 5, Production: 5, Manpower: 2)

11) 1 & 10:
province 1 (Tax: 6, Production: 3, Manpower: 3) - owned by Bohemia in 1444, releasable Duchy of Wrocław.
province 2 (Tax: 2, Production: 1, Manpower: 2) - owned by Bohemia in 1444, releasable Duchy of Wrocław, Opole has a core on this province.

Feedback, please

 

[Mr.Grizzly]

Actually on a good day maybe they could, but the last good day was 7 years before the start of the game for Bohemia.

I've heard the arguement of making Moravia a junior partner in a union to help weaken Bohemia, I wouldn't be opposed to it, but I don't know how historical that would be. I'm aware that Moravia was it's own country and the King of Bohemia inherited the throne, but like I said I don't know much about that part of history. It'd be interesting if Bohemia started with multiple subjects and had to integrate them and keep their land and subjects together and after that they become a strong power in the region.

 

[Hawkslime]

And yeah, Bohemia needs to get nerfed in the upcoming patch, they shouldn't be able to take on Hungary and Poland.

Actually on a good day maybe they could, but the last good day was 7 years before the start of the game for Bohemia.

Bohemia repeatedly fought Hungary to a stalemate in the EU4 timeframe, and that is with several regions and nobles straight up allying with Hungary.
Yeah, Bohemia shouldn´t be rolling over these places, but they should be similar in power.

 

[Sopelsky]

We should improve quality of all countries and making game more exciting by providing new missions/opportunities for each countries.

 

[Hawkslime]

We should nerf all countries and making game more exciting by providing new missions/opportunities for each countries.

If you nerf all of them you nerf none of them.
Could you be more precise on what you mean?

 

[Sopelsky]

If you nerf all of them you nerf none of them.
Could you be more precise on what you mean?

I edited this message. "Nerf" was not proper word for what i wanted to say. I think we should expand whole HRE and make it as it was historically.
For example this topic: https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-case-for-north-west-germany.1258860/
But it's just a part of hard work that devs should put in it. I came out with an idea of expanding Silesia, but yeah. I think it would be nice to see more connection between each countries and make AI choosing rivals in more proper and historical way.
Making stronger relations and connexion between each countries such as Poland - Lithuania (these two countries should be reworked too, i might make topic about that in future)
In conclusion, there is alot to do in the game and only thing we can do is wait i think...

 

[Mr.Grizzly]

Bohemia repeatedly fought Hungary to a stalemate in the EU4 timeframe, and that is with several regions and nobles straight up allying with Hungary.
Yeah, Bohemia shouldn´t be rolling over these places, but they should be similar in power.

I'm not saying to make Bohemia weak, they should be strong in the region. However it's ahistorical, boring and frustrating to constantly see Bohemia conquer not just Hungary, but Poland and other chunks of Germany, every, single, game.

 

[Sopelsky]

I'm not saying to make Bohemia weak, they should be strong in the region. However it's ahistorical, boring and frustrating to constantly see Bohemia conquer not just Hungary, but Poland and other chunks of Germany, every, single, game.

This country should be more balanced i guess. For example it should be harder for Bohemia to make alliance with Ottomans (which happens in 1/4 of my games).
Okay, i think we went offtop. I believe, that it's good idea to make another ideas for Bohemia, Poland, Hungary, Austria, Lithuania etc.

In conclusion, the most innovative and historically idea here i guess is to make Silesia duchies something like less-dependent vassals.

 

[Mr.Grizzly]

This country should be more balanced i guess. For example it should be harder for Bohemia to make alliance with Ottomans (which happens in 1/4 of my games).
Okay, i think we went offtop. I believe, that it's good idea to make another ideas for Bohemia, Poland, Hungary, Austria, Lithuania etc.

In conclusion, the most innovative and historically idea here i guess is to make Silesia duchies something like less-dependent vassals.

The thing is the Silesian duchies were a part of the Bohemian Crown, so representing them as less-dependent goes against what they were. I'll say it again, I still would like to see Moravia be a junior partner in a union with Bohemia. That way the start off weak and over time, if the right choices are made and the Kingdom centralizes, they can be a powerhouse that goes and conquers. While some might say that a union wouldn't make sense since Moravia had been a part of Bohemia for a few hundred years by that point, it was more autonomous and usually had someone else running it who worked with the King of Bohemia, this is what I've read so if I'm wrong please correct me. This nerfs Bohemia early game, not too much since they still have another subject with their own manpower, treasury and force limit, but it takes away that manpower and money from Bohemia since junior partners don't pay tribute. That way you can add the Silesian duchies without worrying about a Super Saiyan Bohemia, or at least it would require less tweaking.

 

[TheDungen]

I'm not saying to make Bohemia weak, they should be strong in the region. However it's ahistorical, boring and frustrating to constantly see Bohemia conquer not just Hungary, but Poland and other chunks of Germany, every, single, game.

Perhaps Poland should start with permaclaims on Silesia (god knows they've wanted it for a long time) and Hungary and Bohemia should be historical rivals?

 

[Mr.Grizzly]

Perhaps Poland should start with permaclaims on Silesia (god knows they've wanted it for a long time) and Hungary and Bohemia should be historical rivals?

Permaclaims at start could work, but I don't think just because a country wanted it for a long time means they get a permaclaim on it, otherwise you could put permaclaims on a lot of other provinces for other countries. But a mission relatively early and easy that gives a claim to Silesia would be nice. Maybe this already exists, I don't play Poland often so I don't know the effects of their missions. Bohemian and Hungarian relations seem to be neutral to me, for the time, and the only big instance between them I'm aware of is the Bohemian-Hungary War, when Hungary invaded to return Catholicism to Bohemia, another reason to have Hussite in the game. So I don't think historic rivals is doable.

 

[TheDungen]

Permaclaims at start could work, but I don't think just because a country wanted it for a long time means they get a permaclaim on it, otherwise you could put permaclaims on a lot of other provinces for other countries. But a mission relatively early and easy that gives a claim to Silesia would be nice. Maybe this already exists, I don't play Poland often so I don't know the effects of their missions. Bohemian and Hungarian relations seem to be neutral to me, for the time, and the only big instance between them I'm aware of is the Bohemian-Hungary War, when Hungary invaded to return Catholicism to Bohemia, another reason to have Hussite in the game. So I don't think historic rivals is doable.

I mostly meant I have no idea what claims poland actually have had for Silesia, and actually part of the reason for missions and claims is to push the ai towards wantign what the country wanted in reality. Though as you said yes a mission might be a better bet.

 

[Sopelsky]

I will find more about relations between Silesian duchies and Bohemia. (Things like: did they took part in wars with Bohemia? Did they pay vassal fees? Etc.)

 

[Captain Carrot]

Poland does indeed get claims on Silesia through missions, but it requires first annexing Mazovia and Lithuania, as well as owning the Slovakia, Transdanubia and Alföld areas (almost the entirety of modern Hungary) either directly or through a subject (although the previous mission gives you a a PU CB on Hungary).
https:// eu4.paradoxwikis. com/Polish_missions#Hungarian_Union

Spaces because I don't have 5 posts yet

 

[Mr.Grizzly]

Poland does indeed get claims on Silesia through missions, but it requires first annexing Mazovia and Lithuania, as well as owning the Slovakia, Transdanubia and Alföld areas (almost the entirety of modern Hungary) either directly or through a subject (although the previous mission gives you a a PU CB on Hungary).
https:// eu4.paradoxwikis. com/Polish_missions#Hungarian_Union

Spaces because I don't have 5 posts yet

Polish claims on Silesia definetly should be easier than that, from what I read it was only a little over 100 years before game start that the duchies switched to Bohemia, before they were a part of Poland. Maybe taking Mazovia gives you the claims? Just seems like a lot of work for just Silesia.

 

[TheDungen]

Polish claims on Silesia definetly should be easier than that, from what I read it was only a little over 100 years before game start that the duchies switched to Bohemia, before they were a part of Poland. Maybe taking Mazovia gives you the claims? Just seems like a lot of work for just Silesia.

They're ruled at the start of the game by the Piast Dynasty, the first royal line of Poland.

 

[Mr.Grizzly]

They're ruled at the start of the game by the Piast Dynasty, the first royal line of Poland.

I'm aware, what are you trying to point out? I'm just saying that maybe once Poland secures Mazovia, by integrating them or, if they break free somehow, conquer them, that they could get a claim on Silesia to reconquer the land and bring it back to the Kingdom of Poland.

 

[TheDungen]

I'm aware, what are you trying to point out? I'm just saying that maybe once Poland secures Mazovia, by integrating them or, if they break free somehow, conquer them, that they could get a claim on Silesia to reconquer the land and bring it back to the Kingdom of Poland.

Nothing except what I just said, I wasn't disagreeing with you, touchy much?

 

[Captain Carrot]

Even if you didn't mean anything, the Piast dynasty coincidentally also rules Mazovia at the start, so integrating it would indeed make sense to give claims on Silesia. Of course, there's also the fact that Silesia is in the HRE, so you might actually have to wait before using those claims.

 

[Mr.Grizzly]

Even if you didn't mean anything, the Piast dynasty coincidentally also rules Mazovia at the start, so integrating it would indeed make sense to give claims on Silesia. Of course, there's also the fact that Silesia is in the HRE, so you might actually have to wait before using those claims.

Piast dynasty didn't rule all of Silesia, but yeah I agree.

Nothing except what I just said, I wasn't disagreeing with you, touchy much?

No, I just wasn't sure if you were stating or correcting me on something.

 

[Sopelsky]

I've got new idea how to expand and completly change the way Bohemia rules in Silesia. I would like to see something like when ruler of some silesian duchy dies, their provinces are annexed by Bohemia. This is 100% historically correct. I would go one step further and say: Let's not allow bohemia to diplo annex vassals, but that's something controversional i guess. I will find more informations and share more ideas in coming days i hope.