Tribal treasury

[Tom1561]

I recently started a game as the Prussians and found it rather annoying you have to remain passive to gain money. And you get always in a deficit.

• Go raiding = out of money
• Defending against raiders = out of money
• Going to war = out of money

Could someone explain me then how to make money if raiding isn't a viable method anymore? At least I would suggest that the army cost could be lowered when they are raiding and plundering my neighbours. Need at least one certain income of gold since prisoners are to random as profit.

 

[kviiri]

I'm playing as Kiev, who also starts tribal and is surrounded by other tribals. I didn't have any debilitating money problems. Raiding tribal lands is poor for income, true, but you can get some pengar by raiding neighbors with temples (and cities, but that's not as common early on). You can also make neighboring tribes into your tributaries, which yields a very slow trickle of income but saves money in the long run because they'll fight your wars for you. Worked for me until I got ships and got to raid more lucrative targets.

 

[Tom1561]

I'm playing as Kiev, who also starts tribal and is surrounded by other tribals. I didn't have any debilitating money problems. Raiding tribal lands is poor for income, true, but you can get some pengar by raiding neighbors with temples (and cities, but that's not as common early on). You can also make neighboring tribes into your tributaries, which yields a very slow trickle of income but saves money in the long run because they'll fight your wars for you. Worked for me until I got ships and got to raid more lucrative targets.

Thanks I'll try that.

 

[Skodkim]

I recently started a game as the Prussians and found it rather annoying you have to remain passive to gain money. And you get always in a deficit.

• Go raiding = out of money
• Defending against raiders = out of money
• Going to war = out of money

Could someone explain me then how to make money if raiding isn't a viable method anymore? At least I would suggest that the army cost could be lowered when they are raiding and plundering my neighbours. Need at least one certain income of gold since prisoners are to random as profit.

In my first two-tree games where I've played as Sigurdr og Sjælland I've also found that it is very hard to keep up financially.

Raiding seems to have been nerfed seriously and it is therefore hardly possible to make money out of it - the unit upkeep is simply too high compared to the income from raiding. When fighting wars unit upkeep is also major problem. Furthermore I rarely see the AI wanting to/being able to pay for prisoners.

The only other way I could see was building markets but the income from these is also very low (0,5 gold per).

I therefore took the liberty of making small changes to the mod in my private build. Raiding time has been decreased and market income increased.

I haven't tried making tributaries so I guess there's (at least) one solution I've overlooked.

\Skodkim

 

[kviiri]

You're right that it isn't easy (unless you have non-tribal allies who are far better for income) but it's definitely possible to make profits with enough patience. But targeting the raids properly is a big deal. Leave tribes without any other holdings alone, concentrate on provinces with temples and cities. Don't bring any excess troops apart from a small buffer against attrition events, they don't increase the sacking speed proportionately to their expense. Raid multiple locations at the same time if you can. Try getting some weak feudal neighbors to raid.

And remember, even if you make a thin profit money-wise, you'll still get prestige, so it's not a waste of time!

 

[themrwho]

You're right that it isn't easy (unless you have non-tribal allies who are far better for income) but it's definitely possible to make profits with enough patience. But targeting the raids properly is a big deal. Leave tribes without any other holdings alone, concentrate on provinces with temples and cities. Don't bring any excess troops apart from a small buffer against attrition events, they don't increase the sacking speed proportionately to their expense. Raid multiple locations at the same time if you can. Try getting some weak feudal neighbors to raid.

And remember, even if you make a thin profit money-wise, you'll still get prestige, so it's not a waste of time!

good advice. I -as a two-province minor in Iceland- started raiding on Day 1, with no ship technology, using my vasal's single boat.
Building up from there I'm raiding and conquering slowly, gained the viking trait several times and have been terrorizing Ireland/Scotland.
England hasn't been in so far but newly announced tour dates confirm we will be uniting with our Anglo-Saxon fans soon enough.

I couldn't believe my eyes initially - raiding itself is terribly inefficient but what does turn the ledger around (quite a bit) is the constant ransoms that come up (if you raid a lot, you ransom a lot) and full sackings of city/temples.

The efficiency trick in my case was initially destroying all potential military might and from there on revisiting each province at turns ensuring none of them is able to stand up again. This way your tiny forces can raid large swaths of land with minimal (if not zero) resistance.

 

[TheStrangerOrg]

raiding feels nerfed too much.

 

[N1ghteyes]

The main income in vanilla raiding is the skimming off the top of the counties total wealth, with a nice boost from actually sieging down a holding. So most people are used to taking out their full stack of troops and going around seiging down the richest place that can't push them out (i.e. early game britannia and france, latter game venice and rome). Its a race too take as many provinces as you can while getting the best return.

CK2+ requires a different mindset. Rather than pulling up ALL THE MEN, you need too plan ahead where you will raid. You're looking for two things when planning a raiding route. Firstly you want counties where war or general weekness means you can seige down the castles/tribes at the top very quickly with a small percentage of your total force, say 1000 men at most. Secondly you want to look at primary provinces, meaning places where characters hold court. Irish dukes, scottish kings and isolated feudal counts who have a good amount of cash on hand are all good targets.

Once you know who you're targeting there are still two things you need to think about. First is raising the men. I like to wait for the raiding event to fire as its guys cost no upkeep and you dont mind much if they get slaughtered. If using you're own men dont raise more than you need to seige down the top holding efficently. Double the men DOES NOT mean half the seige time. Next is your commander. IF YOU WANT PRISIONERS YOU MUST LEAD THE TROOPS FROM THE CENTER YOURSELF. if your character is on the flank or you're safe at home you wont get any prisioners.

If you get lucky going for prisioners you can make easy 500 gold in a raid, maybe more, while spending between 50-100 gold on troop upkeep if you stay out for a VERY LONG TIME. Raids on land are often shorter and dont have such high yields, but a quick raid on the correct county should net you 50-150 gold in ransom, plus 10-30 more gold per temple and city you open up to hit, as the home counties of characters tend to be first to get cities.

Remember you're not looking for LANDS that have lots of gold, you're looking for CHARACTERS with lots of gold.

 

[Maraxus]

I played as Saxony with this mod the last weeks and it was not all that bad:
Instead of making dedicated raids I just raid on top of what I usually do: Country conquests and tributary wars.
Just a normal tribe sieged once for raid money and once to conquer should earn about enough for the upkeep. If you come with too much troops, you can storm in. Go for the temples first, before your vassals take it, then you might even end positive after a war.

Once you are bigger: Just raise a small force of your demesne near the target (or use a tribal army in an endlesss series of wars so they don't despawn) on raid, place them in front of the enemy fort and wait for your allies to arrive. Note, that you will need a second army on not-raid, to get both the raid and siege money but on the good side, you can storm with 8 times the defender force, if it's just your allies' forces you waste there.

Oh and once you REALLY need money (you know, forming an empire or so), take the buisness focus.
Always debase the mints with less precious metals for profits.

 

[Fulmen]

I recently started a game as the Prussians and found it rather annoying you have to remain passive to gain money. And you get always in a deficit.

• Go raiding = out of money
• Defending against raiders = out of money
• Going to war = out of money

Could someone explain me then how to make money if raiding isn't a viable method anymore? At least I would suggest that the army cost could be lowered when they are raiding and plundering my neighbours. Need at least one certain income of gold since prisoners are to random as profit.

1) Choose the business focus.
2) Raid Venice.
3) Profit.

 

[NakedBeast]

You just raid with tribal levies. Tribal vassal pay army maintance, you get the loot. Also you can find some wealthy vassal of yours and eradicate his entire dynasty thus getting their gold and titles. Also buisiness focus gives sweet money events once few years like 100 gold from minting or trade mission gold.

 

[Tom1561]

Thx for all the tips.